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#205342 - 02/15/08 03:47 PM The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed.
Marinan Offline
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http://www.coralridge.org/medialibrary.asp?mediaId =3882

Alfred Kinsey may have been a child molestor that gave life long problems to innocent little children.

No wonder the world is suffering. Because of people like him.

Some are beginning to look up on the records..

and are blowing the whistle.


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#205344 - 02/15/08 03:54 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Marinan]
Freedom49 Offline
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Kinsey's reports were full of crap too.


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#205395 - 02/15/08 11:17 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Freedom49]
MemoryVault Offline
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Even though Kinsey included data from some very unsavory people in his studies, I'm still grateful that he opened a space to be more honest about the range of sexualities people have.


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#205564 - 02/16/08 08:05 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: MemoryVault]
theatrekid Offline
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I just did a simple Google search of Alfred Kinsey sexual abuse and it seemed to me like the people making these allegations are all very biased right wing fundamentalist Christians. I think these people have a lot to gain from discrediting Kinsey so i don't know if i believe there claims. i would like more evidence done by real journalists that are not biased before i would believe what is being said.
But if there is truth to what they are saying i think that is very alarming.


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#205579 - 02/16/08 09:38 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: theatrekid]
WalkingSouth Offline
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It would seem there's the possibility of some questionable associations Kinsey had, but can it be proved at this point? I agree with theatrekid that it would be good for some responsible journalism to take place on this subject. People with an agenda, no matter what that agenda may be are usually suspect.

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#205594 - 02/16/08 10:18 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: WalkingSouth]
Marinan Offline
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Quote:
I agree with theatrekid that it would be good for some responsible journalism to take place on this subject.


True, but if its only being discovered at this point, as Kennedy assumes, then it might be more widely known in time.


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#205607 - 02/16/08 11:44 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Marinan]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Agreed.

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#205720 - 02/17/08 04:16 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: WalkingSouth]
roadrunner Offline
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Kinsey was a pioneer but a guy in a lot of personal pain at the same time. That much seems clear. And even in his own time the wolves were after him for daring to say that our sexuality is a normal and healthy part of our being.

I'll reserve judgment until I see real research by responsible people without an anti-Kinsey agenda. I am reminded of the incredibly irresponsible claims by some right-wing fundamentalist groups to the effect that condoms don't prevent the spread of AIDS because the virus is so small it can penetrate the fabric of the condom. Apart from the fact this is untrue, their real agenda was abstinence but could cause many naive people to just forget about the need to practice safe sex.

Much love,
Larry

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As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
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#205774 - 02/17/08 08:35 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: roadrunner]
FormerTexan Offline
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Judith Reisman did her own study on Kinsey and his "research." She found him and his "assistants" to be child molesters. She has produced a video called "The Children of Table 34" which speaks to this topic. Very revealing.

"I'll reserve judgment until I see real research by responsible people without an anti-Kinsey agenda."

Larry, I don't know if Judith Reisman falls into that category, but wouldn't this video production be anti-Kinsey by default, even if it stood by itself?



Edited by FormerTexan (02/17/08 08:48 PM)
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#205787 - 02/17/08 10:23 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: FormerTexan]
MemoryVault Offline
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Judith Reisman has some...interesting perspectives.

http://www.alternet.org/election04/20744/

Quote:
While winning friends among the Christian right, Reisman was also seeking to influence people on Capitol Hill in her push for an investigation into whether Kinsey had sexually abused children during his research. She presented this accusation in her essay, “Kinsey and The Homosexual Revolution." As Poppy Dixon wrote of the essay, "The bulk of [Reisman's] tirade is comprised of 31 complex and leading questions designed to prejudice the reader." Indeed, Reisman does not offer any conclusive answer to her question, "What if [Kinsey's work] reflects unethical scientists committing unprosecuted criminal acts?" or anything else she asks. She simply posits Kinsey's alleged criminality as a "possibility," one which none of Kinsey's four biographers have found any evidence to entertain.


Gotta love that essay title, though.


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#205796 - 02/17/08 10:55 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: MemoryVault]
Marinan Offline
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Who are Kinsey's Four Biographers... how do we know Poppy Dixon was right?


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#205800 - 02/17/08 11:13 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Marinan]
FormerTexan Offline
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Ah, yes, a winning article by Max Blumenthal, who is on a mission to shoot messengers, and share his left-leaning rants with the world. Instead of listening to him, I'd just watch Reisman's video. It's mighty revealing.



Edited by FormerTexan (02/17/08 11:29 PM)
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#205803 - 02/17/08 11:41 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: FormerTexan]
MemoryVault Offline
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I haven't seen the video, but I have read Reisman's essay.

Quote:
Kinsey fathered not only the sexual revolution, as Hugh Hefner and others have said, but the homosexual revolution as well. Harry Hay gave Kinsey that credit when Hay read in 1948 that Kinsey found "10%" of the male population homosexual. Following the successful path of the Black Civil Rights movement, Hay, a long-time communist organizer, said 10% was a political force which could be melded into a "sexual minority" only seeking "minority rights." With Kinsey as the wind in his sails, Hay formed the Mattachine Society.

But 26% (1,400) of Kinsey's alleged 5,300 white male subjects were already "sex offenders."[34] As far as the data can be established, an additional 25% were incarcerated prisoners; some numbers were big city "pimps," "hold-up men," "thieves;" roughly 4% were male prostitutes as well as sundry other criminals; and some hundreds of homosexual activists at various "gay bars" and other haunts from coast to coast. This group of social outcasts and deviants were then redefined by the Kinsey team as representing your average "Joe College." With adequate press and university publicity, the people believed what they were told by our respectable scientists, that mass sexual perversion was common nationwide-so our sex education and our laws must be changed to reflect Kinsey's "reality."
(emphasis mine)

Reisman forgot to mention that in 1946, a gay man was a sex offender by definition. I was in a gay bar (or was it a "haunt"?) yesterday with a friend. I guess we were only "activists" when we were talking to each other. The rest of the time, we were merely "outcasts and deviants". I don't think there were enough of us there to constitute "mass sexual perversion," but it was still early.

Kinsey's been dead for a long time, and most Americans barely know who he is today. Dr. Reisman hasn't really spent all that time and energy going after Kinsey.

She's after me.


-----

Okay--it's a few minutes later and I've cooled down. Rather than delete the above, let me add something. If Kinsey really did collect data from serial pedophiles, he was guilty of letting his scientific curiosity overwhelm his human judgment and empathy. If he actually encouraged serial pedophiles, he was guilty of something far worse.

But this reflects the question we're dealing with-- how do we cope with the effects of destructive sexuality (if sexual abuse even is sexuality) without going to the other extreme, as Reisman does? She declares war on the erotic itself and shouts "deviant!" equally at gay men and abusers.

How do I cope with the fact that the best and worst experiences of my life have both been sexual? Yes, my family was in many ways defined and damaged by the sexual revolution. But without it, there would have been no room for me to live my life at all, none of the friendships, lovers, nothing outside of a furtive and anonymous encounter now and then.

Peace,

David




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#205927 - 02/18/08 06:59 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: MemoryVault]
FormerTexan Offline
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David,

If someone called me deviant and a social outcast, my blood would be boiling too. Today is the first day I have heard of this essay, and I can see how it can come across offensively. I received a copy of The Children of Table 34 over a decade ago. Despite her uncompassionate remarks in this essay, I still believe the data in this video to be worth viewing.

Andy

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#205941 - 02/18/08 07:58 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: FormerTexan]
MemoryVault Offline
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Thanks, Andy --

It wasn't you--I've been angry at Reisman for years. Probably because half of what she stands for is a good cause (protect kids from abuse) and the other half seems really dangerous.

And I'd be the last person to say we should sweep actual sexual abuse under the rug, so I am interested in the facts.

David


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#205985 - 02/18/08 11:23 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: MemoryVault]
theatrekid Offline
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I don't know this Reisman character i will look her up and read what she has written before i pass my judgement on her.

But i will say alot of people claim to be looking out for the safety of children but are truly just using that as a mask to spread their hate and bigotry.

For example people often say gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because it isn't a healthy environment for children. This has been proven to not be true but people still use this claim as an argument to not allow it to happen.

Christopher.


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#206013 - 02/19/08 12:26 AM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: theatrekid]
VLinvictus Offline
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"Won't someone think of the children?!?!"
Such is the stereotypical refrain of conservative (and often religious) busybodies of the Helen Lovejoy mold (and worse).

A cynical person like myself is immediately suspicious of people like Reisman. Just how pure are her motives?

Christopher brings up the example of gay marriage, but that is only one of an ever increasing catalog of attempts to expand human freedom that has been attacked by the reactionary forces of the right because it they would supposedly harm children.

One has to wonder if such people really care about children at all, or if they are just using children as pawns in their medieval social agenda.

I would think that such politicization would quite appropriately be classed as child abuse.

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#206077 - 02/19/08 07:40 AM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: VLinvictus]
Lazarus Offline
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You said it, VL! If someone spouts hatred out of one side of their mouth, how can anyone agree with what comes out of the other side?

David, I appreciate your rant. I'm sure it felt good to get that off your chest. Thank you for not deleting it once you calmed down too. It was much more effective the way you wrote it, along with Part II... As for your other question, it's not unusual for sex to be both the best of times and the worst of times. It's amazing just how powerful and important sex is in human society! Sex rates consistently either No 1 or No 2 on the list of human drives (the other one is eating), far outwieghing it's actual worth or value. I'm always amazed and seldom surprised by the extents people will go to in order to satisfy this sex-drive (urge, need, whatever you want to call it). Unfortunately, those extents are not always nice.

IMHO

Ric

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#206101 - 02/19/08 09:40 AM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Lazarus]
FormerTexan Offline
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I decided to pull out that video tape the other night and back it up to disc. As I watched it, I realized that Reisman was simply one of many speakers on the 30-minute presentation, and not a "main" speaker. There were no negative comments toward any particular group.

Lazarus,

"If someone spouts hatred out of one side of their mouth, how can anyone agree with what comes out of the other side?"

Yeah, I can see that. Someone can have a good message, but I wonder how many good messages it takes from them to undo one bad one. Like the analogy that it takes ten "Atta boys" to undo one "oh $#!+!"

Andy





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#206182 - 02/19/08 02:59 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: VLinvictus]
roadrunner Offline
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Dan,

Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
I would think that such politicization would quite appropriately be classed as child abuse.


Exactly. Or at the very least it weakens the genuine arguments by turning them into fodder for cheap self-serving political ploys.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#280611 - 03/24/09 03:29 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: roadrunner]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
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Edited by myboyhoodfears (08/31/09 10:45 AM)
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#280620 - 03/24/09 04:51 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Sans Logos Offline
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wow talk about a resurrection. well it is spring after all!

anyway, i do appreciate healthy discussion even of unseemly topics.

here's yet another persepective.

it appears to me anyway from this perspective he was merely interviewing pedophiles. none of his findings were secret, so where were the authorities upon its publication? the truth is there was no precedent at the time for watching out for the best interests of the child class. it was a wicked time for children, and this type of research typifies the attitude of the time that children were mere possessions to be used for whatever purposes the ruling adult figures deemed desirable.

i don't blame kinsey for asking perpetrators about their sexual habits. had he not brought himself to a decision to pursue such a line of research, the plight of children as sex slaves to family members and strangers would not have been outed, and may yet remain behind the shadows of secrecy.

years later, we have named the real perp, silence and secrecy.

that issue aside, had it not been for kinsey i would not be sitting in the safety of my home not thinking of ways to punish or escape myself for being gay.

yes his research did cause a turn of the tide in the manner in which people dialogue about things of a sexual nature. but he did not make perpetrators. they were born without his help. he just blew the lid off of sexual predatory behavior.

the rest is his/her story.

[please remove tomatoes from cans before tossing]

signed,

anonymous

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#280622 - 03/24/09 05:16 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: myboyhoodfears]
joelRT Offline
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Kinsey was not a pedophile - he was a closet homosexual with a penile fixation.

I was under the impression that the grand difference between these two extremes was well understood by the men on this site.

Just goes to show how wrong a guy can be sometimes, huh?

(hurl the cans if you like, as a survivor I've long since learned to duck)

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#280629 - 03/24/09 06:09 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
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Edited by myboyhoodfears (08/31/09 10:44 AM)
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#280631 - 03/24/09 06:26 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: myboyhoodfears]
joelRT Offline
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If you can make these claims- and there are quite a few - it must mean that you have done extensive research into the man. I thought that I had read everything that I could find on Kinsey over the years, but you seem to have accessed a source that I've missed.

Can you quote for me please the source and the reference of your information. I'd too would like to advance my research in this matter.

Thanks so much!

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#280634 - 03/24/09 06:36 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: joelRT]
myboyhoodfears Offline


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"kinsey's pedophiles" and of course his own work....read the tables all the info is there carefully recorded...he exposes himself.



Edited by myboyhoodfears (03/24/09 06:40 PM)
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#280636 - 03/24/09 07:03 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: myboyhoodfears]
joelRT Offline
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Ok, I give up.

I know when I'm beat.

I'll just let you be right, and I'll move on now..........

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#280646 - 03/24/09 07:42 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: joelRT]
myboyhoodfears Offline


Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 457
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Edited by myboyhoodfears (08/31/09 10:42 AM)
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#280652 - 03/24/09 08:35 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


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Edited by myboyhoodfears (08/31/09 10:41 AM)
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#280676 - 03/24/09 10:00 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Sans Logos Offline
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i'm not sure the source of your information dan, but i would be glad to read it and interpret the findings for myself.

ron

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#280703 - 03/24/09 11:49 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Sans Logos]
myboyhoodfears Offline


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my last comment was regarding the link you provided me....who the hell is miss Poppy Dixon and why should i care at all what she has to say about anything....she can defend Kinsey all she wants...doesnt mean she is right.

Quote:
The Kinsey Institute did not employ or train these men, or pay them for this information. The large majority of such information, including all that was reported in Table 34, was gathered by one individual, between 1917 and 1948, and documented by him. He died before Kinsey.


and so Kinsey decided that any information that some pedophile hands him, is legitimates scientific data without being able to corroborate any of it?..if this is true then every last bit of that information in table 34 could be a complete fabrication for all he knew.....of course its not a fabrication because kinsey in fact had intervewed other pedophiles, instructed them on how to keep records and time childrens orgasms, etc...thus he was able to corroborate table 34....which make him complicate in the sexual abuse of children for failing to report it and profiting from it...we now know about the mr green "mr X"


"Then there is the testimony of Dr. Clarence A. Tripp, a photographer/pornographer at the Kinsey Institute, who worked closely with Kinsey for many years. In the documentary, Kinsey's Paedophiles, Tripp was asked: "But if Kinsey states something as a fact, can we be certain that he observed it himself?"

Dr. Tripp responded: "Almost always . . . He wanted to see everything. This is a hands-on scientist . . . But he had to see it to really believe it."

Concerning Kinsey's involvement with Mr. X/Mr. Green, the admitted mass rapist of 800 infants and children, Tripp said: "Kinsey had contact with all [the pedophiles] that he could find. It's true that nobody would he trust as much as Green." However, it appears that Kinsey even checked up on (and observed in action) his "hero," Mr. X/Mr. Green. Tripp went on to say:

I hesitate to even call Green a paedophile. It is true he had some children, his girlfriend did most of the
really young ones, but it occasionally showed up. [Kinsey] would always check it. Nobody ever knew
that he had observed. I think you will find that nobody, in any documentary, ever mentions it. That I
am the first one that ever told you! Or told anybody. It is guarded like a secret. There is no reference
to it anywhere, let alone in print. Even in the documentaries.


"Paul Gebhard wrote to me in 1981. I had asked where the Kinsey Institute had gotten these children. Who were the adult "researchers?" He answered: "Some . . . were parents, mostly college educated. A few were nursery school owners or teachers. Others were homosexual males interested in older, but still prepubertal, children. One was a man who had numerous sexual contacts with male and female infants and children and, being of a scientific bent, kept detailed records of each encounter."

"When I bring up Kinsey's indefensible sexual crimes against children, Kinsey's defenders are wont to object that there is no "proof" that Kinsey himself, personally, raped and sodomized any of the children involved in his research. By the same token, we have no proof that Hitler, Stalin, or Mao personally murdered any of the millions of their victims.
However, the evidence for Kinsey's posthumous indictment is overwhelming. One of Kinsey's main associates and co-author, Paul Gebhard, admitted in a British television documentary that he, Kinsey, and their fellow researchers knowingly collaborated with criminal pedophiles. In the British production, Kinsey's Paedophiles, Gebhard, a former director of the Kinsey Institute, states: <<<<<<"It was illegal and we knew it was illegal, but it's very important to study childhood sexuality.>>>>>>>>>" ..

what is so terribly important about knowing that an infant can be induced by an adult into having an orgasm?...why do we need to know that?..what possible medical reason would any adult need to have that would require knowldge that a 12 yrearold can be forced to have mutiple orgasms over and over again at the hands of pedophile?..that is unless someone think its ok for adults to sexually abuse childern, then that information might be quite useful.



"Gebhard also confirmed, in a 1992 phone interview, that several pedophiles timed child sexual acts with stop watches, "at our suggestion." Gebhard said that "we would ask them to watch it, and take notes, and . . . report back to us." One of these "researchers" was a notorious pedophile whom the Kinsey "scientists" identified only as "Mr. X" or "Mr. Green." According to Kinsey co-author (and sex partner) Wardell Pomeroy, Mr. X had committed immoral acts with over 800 children. Dr. Gebhard informs us that Mr. X had also committed unnatural acts with men and animals."






Edited by myboyhoodfears (03/25/09 04:33 AM)
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#280743 - 03/25/09 10:13 AM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: myboyhoodfears]
myboyhoodfears Offline


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Posts: 457
i wanted to add that what Judith Riesman and poppy Dixon have to say about Kinsey is irrelevant...judith Riesman may be biased against homosexuals and i don't agree with her....so none of my info comes from her...thats right....the last set of quotes are from Kinsey's own people...in their own words....nothing more compelling than that...ive seen the movie Kinsey's pedophiles...ive seen the individuals say these things on camera....i don't need anything from Judith Reisman...but she only confirms what is already overwhelming and damming evidence against Kinsey.

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#285364 - 04/25/09 10:33 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: myboyhoodfears]
Marinan Offline
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I'd just like to add if I ever meet Kinsey in Heaven, I'm kicking him somewhere that will make him the highest pitch singer in the choir.


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#285365 - 04/25/09 10:42 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Marinan]
joelRT Offline
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Well now, there's a Christ-like attitude if ever I've read one!

The righteous surely go to heaven - the self-righteous, not so sure....

What a terribly sad statement for a Christian man to make.

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#285367 - 04/25/09 10:56 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: joelRT]
Marinan Offline
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I'm sorry if righteous ANGER makes me self-righteous.


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#285368 - 04/25/09 11:07 PM Re: The Kinsey Institute Might Be Ashamed. [Re: Marinan]
joelRT Offline
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Please forgive me, I was not aware that Kinsey had caused you harm directly.

Had I known that he was your abuser, I would have held my tongue.

Now I just feel like an utter fool..... blush

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