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#203862 - 02/06/08 01:42 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: markgreyblue]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11075
Loc: Denver, CO
Mark,

I have no doubt they try to profit off of these things. Rest assured, government likes profits too, and will do what they can to make theirs.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

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#203865 - 02/06/08 02:15 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: FormerTexan]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Mark, you just pointed out the weakest flaw in the system, which is that we have 3rd parties paying the medical bills, instead of the patients themselves.

Government started subsidizing schools and college, and the costs of these services are going through the roof, more than double the rate of inflation.

Government started subsidizing health care in the 60's, (medicare) You know what medicare is don't you? It's that wonderful government program that you're FORCED to contribute to, it was promised to help seniors pay for their medical expenses. Well, guess what? Seniors now pay MORE out of their pockets for health care than BEFORE medicare was enacted, and this is rated to the index of inflation.

When you subsidize something with government, the service that receives it gets hooked on it, much akin to a heroin addict. Then the government starts adding hoops that states must jump through in order to keep the money in their budgets. But I digress.

You know what? I'm wrong, I'm totally wrong. If government didn't feed us, and give us medical care, we would have children and old people falling over in the street, corpses everywhere. Forget everything I've said.


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#203866 - 02/06/08 02:16 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: Hauser]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
LOL Hauser, I love you. And I agree with you.


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#203871 - 02/06/08 02:59 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: Freedom49]
markgreyblue Offline
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Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
I still disagree.

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#203874 - 02/06/08 03:04 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: markgreyblue]
FormerTexan Offline
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Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11075
Loc: Denver, CO
Hauser draws a good analogy with education. We subsidize it like crazy, and they still look for MORE money. I see kids peddling candy and asking for sponsorships on athletics. Drivers Ed was free when my sister took it in the late 70s. Now it costs a bunch of money. Students in grade school have to rent their schoolbooks now. Where is the money going?

So, from seeing multiple examples of waste, fraud and abuse, with just one example being named above, I cannot see how a national-government-run health care system will be any different. If the federal government comes up with such a piece of pork, will Medicare be scrapped? What about Medicaid?

What about the law? Does that even mean anything anymore?

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#203887 - 02/06/08 04:26 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: FormerTexan]
frost Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 1377
Loc: Eh?
Originally Posted By: FormerTexan
Where is the money going?


Andy, everyone.

At the risk of offending people I'm going to chip this in. Please know I don't mean to offend anyone.

Andy I think you ask an important question. One that is simply not asked enough in your country. If I might borrow a quote from Plato,

  • "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato


In my opinion, the US Government is probably the most unchecked, unquestioned, and fiscally irresponsible in the world. Perhaps this is why universal healthcare will never work there. "Where is the money going?" and other questions are just simply not raised enough and as such the US Government rolls on like a mighty machine which seems completely out of touch with the world and possibly even its own people.

For example, have a look at Canada's ill-fated gun registry. It was a pig of an idea and resources, until Canadian citizens brought it crashing down. Another example recently happened at a local level -- the town i live in wanted to build a new library, police station, city hall, all in one big megacomplex. Taxpayers associations raised all hell in this very poorly planned and it was overturned.

I believe other governments are significantly more controlled by the people and thats why universal healthcare works in those countries, like Canada.

Look even at the US medical system. People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for necessary medical expenses. Has anyone justified the costs of these or is it just what the greedy HMO's and healthcare system deems to be appropriate? Why do medical procedures cost so very much there comparatively speaking? Where does the money go! It seems no one asks because the HMO's foot any bills that are paid. Those who can't afford insurance don't have the resources to ask the questions and are likely rather intimidated for the bills they get.

I dunno. I think I see why such a system won't go over there. Everything else they do is grossly overrun with bureaucracy so it'll probably never change.

~Brian

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Boom!

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#203888 - 02/06/08 04:29 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: frost]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
OUCH.
Truth Hurts Brian.


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#203893 - 02/06/08 05:09 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: Freedom49]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11075
Loc: Denver, CO
"the US Government is probably the most unchecked, unquestioned, and fiscally irresponsible in the world."

Considering the nine-trillion-dollar+ debt incurred by the US government, I'm not gonna argue with you.

Andy



Edited by FormerTexan (02/06/08 05:31 PM)
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List of things ain't nobody got time for:

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#203903 - 02/06/08 06:42 PM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: frost]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: frost

I hope I live to the day when dental/mental care is also provided by our system. I personally consider dental health (important stuff, not cosmetic) should be thought of as a medical procedure because your teeth can really have a lot do do with your overall health. Further to that, universal mental health is soooo needed but it seems that isn't on very many official priority lists.

Dental it like a major budget cruncher. Even with insurance the work I had done with insurance cost me $2,180 of the of $3,000. yeah I saved some money but I have paid that much and more in the past 5 years. So really is the insurance worth it? It's a joke. The scientists have found that people with poor teeth are more prone to heart problems. I don't think dental or mental health should be treated as separate health care, after both affect a persons overall health.



Edited by GateKPR4 (02/06/08 06:45 PM)
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I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
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#204085 - 02/08/08 01:32 AM Re: National Healthcare would prevent this....... [Re: GateKPR4]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"the US Government is probably the most unchecked, unquestioned, and fiscally irresponsible in the world."

In the US, people fear their government. In most democracies, the governments fear the people.

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Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
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Paul Eluard

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