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#202781 - 01/31/08 09:47 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: JustScott]
mvnforwrd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 216
Loc: NJ
Kiwi64,
I also was abused by a man/priest. my abuse started when I was 13 and lasted for many many years repeadiatly. I am just realizing my relationship with my faith stopped when i was 13 because blinders were placed on my eyes. I continued to go to church because my mother made me. Then I got married and to keep the secret I still continued to go to church with the blinders on. My toughest issue is how can a man jerk you off or fuck you on a saturday nite then offer you communion on a sunday.

I am new to the healing process but I have realized that I need God in my life. What I dont need right now is organized religion. Man controlled religion. I pray to god 1on1. I havent been to church since JULY when I came forth with the abuse. I do realize though that this priest is a man. A sick man. A devil that has infotrated religion and because of this man doing what he did has betrayed GOD.

_________________________
Take your foot out of yesterday and your other foot out of tomorro or you will keep pissing allover today!

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#202809 - 01/31/08 12:22 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: BJK]
Barney Offline


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Utah/Northern Arizon
I once read something that helped me in my own question as to why God allowed my own abuse. The thought had to do with a benefit of my abuse was that I could stop the chain of abuse. I could stop another child from having to endure the impact of being sexually abused. Made sense to me as many abusers have been abused themselves. I could choose to stop the pattern and did.


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#202873 - 01/31/08 05:44 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
Squire01 Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 1
Loc: Pacific Northwest
I am sorry that you suffered at the hands of a man who abused his responsiblity to guide and protect you. He was hiding behind his authority and the power of religion.

There is a God, I believe that and have a faith that Jesus, Emannuel(God with Us) is beside us in our pain and suffering. Job had many trials, yet he faith in God, not to make things all great and perfect....just that he is there.

As a father, I stand witness to my son's life. I don't necessarily intervene when I see him stumble and fall. However, I am there when he turns to me and cries. I can not take the hurt away. To do that would demean his experience, however I bear witness to him and offer what comfort I can.

I feel that God is in caring compassionate people as in this place. I can not take the hurt away, only bear witness, just as Christ did with his disciples, and they didn't get half the stuff he told them. Just look at Peter.

I think your wife is misguided. The trick is to let her have her experience and to walk with her. Your wifes beliefs are hers, yours are yours.
I don't know if that helps, however I hope you have a spiritual director who can help you.


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#203421 - 02/03/08 09:30 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
kiwi64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Georgia, USA
This really seems to have generated some conversation. Thanks to all who have expressed thier opinions. We all have our own beliefs and whether you subscribe to a religion or a theory, there probably is not a right or wrong answer, as its our own beliefs.

I personally believe that there is a god, but I have come to think that while his love may be perfect, he is not a perfect being, although he can offer us salvation if we so desire and believe. The reason I think that he may not be perfect is that in the old testament we are told that God created man in his own image. We are also told about the serpent and its equating to satan. In the new testament we are told that Jesus went into the desert for 40 days and 40 nights to be tempted by Satan, and he conquered him. All this points I think to the fact that god may not be perfect because man is not perfect.

If man was perfect there would be no need for our boards and forums. Sure people may say that it is free will that lets people commit acts against us, but personally I think that this is a crock. People say this beacuse they can't accept that nothing is perfect, as we have been told to accept by organized religion.

I still feel confused, but accepting that God is not perfect means that I do not feel as empty as I did before. I will keep struggling ancd trying to understand.

_________________________
"the only limit to what can be achieved is our own imagination" Albert Eienstien

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#203432 - 02/03/08 09:57 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11021
Loc: Denver, CO
"The reason I think that he may not be perfect is that in the old testament we are told that God created man in his own image."

Kiwi, that is a very interesting point. The best I found to reconcile this concept is to understand that an image is not equal to what it was created from. Take a copy made from a copier. It is an image of its original, but it is not quite the same as the original. It is degraded in some small percentage, and upon close examination it can be distinguished from its original. Using this logic, if I am made in God's image then I am not the same as God, to begin with.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#203468 - 02/04/08 05:33 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: FormerTexan]
kiwi64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Georgia, USA
That is one perspective to look at it, I hadn't really thought of it that way, but who are we to say what characteristic's are our's (the imprefections) and what are Gods (the perfections) as organized religion would have us believe.

It is easy to say that the good ones are God's, and the bad ones are ours or Satan's, however I am not sure that is right. For instance, I don't believe that God set out to create peadophiles, but they definitely are around. From an early age we are taught in Church that God will protect children if you trust in him, but will he really. I asked that question over and over again when I was being raped by a priest as a child. I still don't have an answer, other than he is not perfect in our creation, but he is perfect in our salvation and his love.

_________________________
"the only limit to what can be achieved is our own imagination" Albert Eienstien

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#203478 - 02/04/08 07:41 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2572
I guess this is one of those occasions where I feel led to chime in. This is my understanding of Biblical teaching and understand that there are others who don't view the Bible in the same way that I do.

My belief and understanding of being created in the image of God is the idea that as God is a Triune God (3 in One) so also are we triune in nature. In the Person of God, we have Father, Son, Holy Spirit. In man, we have Mind, Body, Soul. In both idea and function we can see them operating similarly. We see the Father sending and directing the activities of the Son and Spirit. Much like our Mind dictates our actions. Our mind sends the signal to walk, run, etc, but it is the body that actually carries that action out. In John chapter 1, we find that the Father determined to create, but the Person of the Son carried the activity of creation out, along with the work of the Spirit. I could go on with examples, but I have to be honest, since I turned around and began to face my abuse, my mind is just not at all as focused as it was.

Nextly, you will also find that the Bible tells us to be "Conformed to the image of Christ." The Bible teaches that Christ is God, so we're literally being told to be conformed to the image of God.... But we're made in God's image right???? So we have to dig a bit deeper. Yes we're made in God's image, but we're being told to live that image, or "live up to" if you will. If you look at Jesus life, he lived a life of complete and utter Love. How many human beings Christian or otherwise can say they have done so? How many human beings are truly trying to love one another? Heck, how many churches out there make people feel loved?

In another topic the idea was posed that someone wanted to see a persons actions more then their words. I agree completely. If a person says they are a Christian, but there is no love in their life, I seriouly wonder if they really know what being a Christian is.

Those who seek to be conformed to the image in which they were made, will love others, regardless of weather or not they agree with their beliefs, orientation, etc etc etc. Keep in mind that we're told that "God is Love". So love isn't just an attribute that God has, not just something He feels for us, but He IS LOVE. SO.... we're made in the image of love.... Follow that thought with the idea of being conformed to that Image.... I think allot of "Christian" people need to take the time to figure that out, and then truly love others around them.

Yes, I consider myself a Christian. I'm trying to love. It's hard sometimes, especially since my view and understanding of love has been so distorted by my abuse. But I am trying. I want to be conformed to the image in which I believe I was created.

That in mind, I know many don't believe in God. That's a personal journey and choice each of us has to make on our own. I personally believe there is a God. But even if somehow in the end it turns out I'm wrong, I think living a life of Love can only help. Not only myself, but those I meet and come in contact with ....those I Love.



Edited by JustScott (02/04/08 07:46 AM)

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#203480 - 02/04/08 07:58 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: JustScott]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11021
Loc: Denver, CO
" For instance, I don't believe that God set out to create peadophiles"

I don't either. I believe He created man, then later man made some bad choices, and through that misuse of choice we've been broken ever since.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#203991 - 02/07/08 11:14 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: kiwi64]
mvnforwrd Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 216
Loc: NJ
kIWI.

KIWI I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND FEELING. I FEEL THE SAME. I DO BELIVE IN GOD BUT I ALSO HAVE A TOUGH TIME WITH "WHERE WAS GOD TO PROTECT ME FROM THIS ABUSE".(BASED ON WHAT I WAS TOLD IN CHURCH THAT GOD PROTECTS AND HAS A PLAN FOR EVERYONE!

OK SOME MAY SAY THINGS ARE MENT FOR A REASON. WELL I CAN EXCEPT THAT IF YOU WERE RUNNING LATE FOR WORK AND YOU MISSED GETTING INTO A POSSIBLE ACCIDENT OR FINDING 20$ ON THE GROUND IN TIME OF NEED. BUT NOWAY SHAPE OR FORM WAS ME BEING ABUSED MENT AND IF IT WAS THEN GOD IS TO BLAME FOR THE MESSED UP LIFE I WENT THROUGH AND WILL GO THROUGH. i DONT NECCESARRILY BELIVE THAT GOD IS THE POTTER AND WE ARE HIS CLAY. I WOULD RATHER THINK OF IT AS WE ARE THE TABLE AND GOD IS THE LEGS.(MEANING) GOD IS THERE FOR US WHEN WE EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUAL NEED HIM ...A ONE ON ONE. TO CLEAR THE HEART AND SOUL.

JUST A THOUGHT THANKS FOR LETTING ME SHARE MVN4WRD

_________________________
Take your foot out of yesterday and your other foot out of tomorro or you will keep pissing allover today!

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#204000 - 02/07/08 01:20 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: mvnforwrd]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
I like your idea, mvnforward. That's relatively close to what I myself believe.

There's this generalized image of God being some kind of combination of Santa Claus and Superman who is supposedly all-seeing and all-powerful and all-loving -- and yet things like the sexual abuse of children and genocide still happen. God is therefore either not all-powerful, not all-seeing, not all-loving, non-existant, or totally different from and beyond our conception.

To me, only the last two make sense and jive with my experience of the world. Either there is no sort of "God" at all or the God that exists is something so radically different that It cannot be properly understood by the human mind and that the Santa Claus/Superman in the Sky is just a poor attempt by finite human minds to grasp the Infinite.

There is no evidence or proof that God exists, and I could accept that. However, I have a few times experienced a sense of peace and connection to something greater than my limited self which subjectively leads me to believe that there is something more to what we see and touch and feel, that the whole is greater in some way than the sum of its parts and that can give a sense of strength and support -- like your image of the legs of a table.

I cannot believe, however, that things happen for any predetermined reason as part of some cosmic plan. Any supposedly omnipotent being that would cause or allow things like the abuse we have suffered, 9/11, or the Holocaust would be a monster to be hated rather than loved. The evil in the world comes instead from the human mind and heart and the fact that the universe is still a work in progress.

OTOH, that's where all the hope and joy in the world can be found as well.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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