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#201318 - 01/25/08 12:49 PM GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating
Danbuff Offline
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
This is something I recently discovered quite by chance. It is a major threat worldwide. It is in our food supply and has been for about 30 years in foods we consume daily. Especially in snack foods and even vegetables.

I am posting a link to a 53 minute documentary that will likely draw you into watching it completely. This is an example of science gone wrong and has numerous implications about big business and corporate influence in policy. I could comment further but will wait to hear reactions. I encourage you to look at this issue and perhaps spread the message. It is very alarming. Here is the link.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=GMO&hl=en&sitesearch
It is the FIRST VIDEO Poison or Panacea
Dan



Edited by Danbuff (01/27/08 06:37 PM)
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#201327 - 01/25/08 01:38 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
dgoods Offline
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Loc: Richmond area
I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but here are my thoughts:
A lack of genetic diversity in the food crops could prove dangerous; simple organisms adapt and evolve much more quickly than complex ones do. I seem to remember the Great Potato Famine having genetic homogeneity as a strong factor in the scope of the tragedy. Even if there are no other motivations in gentically modifying foods other than to simply provide hardier, disease-resistant food crops, won't a pest or disease eventually evolve that will prefer the genetic profile of the engineered species? I'm reminded of antibiotic-resistant staph infections, as well as Deinococcus Radiodurans, and the fungi found thriving inside the shroud at Chernobyl.
All that being said, aside from some sudden dramatic drop in birthrate, average lifespan, and present world population, just how are we supposed to feed everyone? Were the world's agriculture to become completely organic in nature starting tomorrow, only about 2/3 of the world's population could be supported- and that's factoring in conversion of grain for animal feed purposes to human food, conversion of grazing land to cropland, etc.
I guess my final take on it is "Damned if we do, damned if we don't"...

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

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#201332 - 01/25/08 02:46 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: dgoods]
melliferal Offline
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Practically speaking, unless the genetic modification causes the plant to produce a toxin, there's no reason why a genetically-modified ear of corn (for instance) would be "more dangerous" to humans than any other ear of corn. It seems to me that opponents of genetically-modified crops don't have so much of a problem with the actual crops themselves, so much as the mere fact that they're genetically-modified.

A similar issue would be the fuss over using products from cloned animals - for instance, milk from cloned cows. Everybody knows that a cloned animal is identical to its host; there's nothing "extra" in the clone simply by virtue of the fact that it's a clone. Common sense dictates that there's nothing "different" about the milk from a cloned cow versus the milk of the original cow. Yet many people are against the selling of milk from cloned cows - not because there's anything wrong with the milk, but rather because they don't cloning.

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#201333 - 01/25/08 02:50 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: melliferal]
duncanUK Offline
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I think they are afraid of "gene" jumping. Imagine having a crop resistant to herbicides, you could then spray the field to kill the weeds but not harm the crop. Now imagine that gene "jumping" to the weeds. Now you have super weeds that are also resistant.

I think we should leave nature alone. What works in the lab does not always go right in natures own laboratory.

corrected my spelling



Edited by duncanUK (01/25/08 05:42 PM)
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#201342 - 01/25/08 03:53 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: duncanUK]
Danbuff Offline
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Have any of you bothered to view the entire video or at least part of it? To suggest or imply that this process is somehow okay entirely misses the point as well as the evidence and reasoning that there is potentially unforseeable harm that is not reversible. The evidence so far indicates the genetically altered seeds are spreading to organic crops deeming them inorganic. To say as mellifereal states that people don't have a problem with the actual crops themselves, so much as that the mere fact that they're genetically modified indicates you did not look at the data in the video.

Europeans care and they are banning genetically manufactured corn and soy beans as well as food produced from them. These are the Chemical companies that make insecticides that harm wildlife and humans. There is no testing done and they are being used in agriculture production. Did you ever hear of Agent Orange? a Chemical defoliant that causes birth defects and cancers and now is banned. This is dangerous science and that is why Europeans have taken such a strong stand against the products with unknown research in how it affects humans. Science already knows it kills the monarch butterfly and who knows what other species will be impacted to upset the natural eco-balance?

As Duncan states, they are afraid of gene jumping...YES it has already occurred thus destroying organic farming. Cows have been given antibiotics for decades and is a link to such large children and why girls develope breasts at age 8 and begin menstruation cycles early as well. What we don't yet know is what other effects lie ahead.

The plants that are being genetically altered have not been researched to show evidence of what the long term effects are. Since we have been eating so many products unknowingly affected for 30 years that were created from genetic engineering, it is a reasonable question to ask if it has any linkage to the astronomical rates of Autism, ADHD or countless other conditions that are mysteriously appearing throughout the population with little explanation. They do know it is unprecedented to see all the cancers we see that were in the past not seen. Better diagnostics may not be the reason for detection...not necessarily. So to dismiss this as progress and fear seems as silly as saying all the pollution will get purified naturally because nature will adjust. This has potential to threaten food saftey and the health of the world in the name of science and big business.

Nature has been adjusting and creating new species on its own or through simple old-fashioned farming practices that have served us well since time began. This is big business at work here creating monopolies on farming, agriculture and pricing. It is all in the documentary guys....have a look.

With all due respect, have a look first and then decide how you feel.
Peace,
Dan



Edited by Danbuff (01/25/08 03:57 PM)
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#201801 - 01/27/08 06:06 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
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Which video in particular would you recommend that we watch Dan? The very top one?


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#201808 - 01/27/08 06:35 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
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Hauser,
Yes it is the very first one that says Poison or Panecea.. Good question. My goof.:)
Dan

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#201815 - 01/27/08 06:48 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
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I will watch it.


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#201971 - 01/28/08 06:12 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Hauser]
roadrunner Offline
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I'll just jump in here to confirm what Dan says about the cautious attitude that prevails in Europe. The EU in particular isn't buying the argument that lack of proof of harm means that a certain procedure or product is safe. They see right through that to the real issue: the megabucks to be earned in the export of foodstuffs.

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#202393 - 01/29/08 08:21 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: roadrunner]
Hauser Offline
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I watched it.

I first heard John Hagelin back in 1996 when he ran for President as a Natural Law Party Candidate. Pretty smart guy.

I always buy organic when it's available. The FDA is a joke. How much you want to bet that the officials at the FDA are on the take?




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#202398 - 01/29/08 08:27 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
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Hauser,
I am glad you saw it. It is pretty powerful and scary. I try buying organic but it's very pricey. I try buying local in season when I can. Yes the FDA and government are a joke. Labels are not required to disclose that dirty little secret on labels. They lobby against it. Europeans do require it.

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#202439 - 01/29/08 10:39 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
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I would rather pay a little bit more for organic food than go to a doctor later on because I have cancer or whatever.

Do you REALLY think that insecticide "washes off" produce when you rinse it? Every tomato, apple, pear, etc that you buy that isn't organic has POISON sprayed on it.


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#202539 - 01/30/08 09:08 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
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Yup, you are correct Hauser.

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#203443 - 02/03/08 11:37 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
dgoods Offline
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I can't remember the author, but i recall reading an article about tomatoes, wherein the food industry paid big bucks to create what it considered to be the "perfect" tomato; seedless, square-shaped for more efficent packing, appealing bright red color, firm-fleshed to resist bruising, a thicker, more pest-and blemish-resistant skin. The only problem was, it had no flavor whatsoever... it failed miserably at being a tomato! As far as the other issues, it reminds me very much of Big Pharma's success in rushing drugs (especially psychiatric ones) to market before any long-term effects are known. I trust something that's been on the market for fifty years or longer, by and large, but just recently i've witnessed "headline wars" over caffeine- "study 'A' says caffeine does blah-blah horrible thing", followed by "study 'B' says caffeine does blah-blah beneficial thing", followed YET AGAIN by "study 'C' says caffeine does blah-blah OTHER horrible thing". I feel like i'm being fought over by Agri-Biz on the one hand, and the insurance-driven Body Police on the other... either way, it's about making money, whether caffeine is really bad for me or not.

_________________________
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Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

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#203545 - 02/04/08 04:50 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: dgoods]
Danbuff Offline
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dgoods,
The truth is it is ALL about business profits. Then when humans start to develop unforseen side effects, who else can step in to fight the side effects? The pharmaceuticals of course. More money driven than ever....

You my friend are absolutely correct!
Peace,
Dan

_________________________
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#203550 - 02/04/08 05:12 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
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But businesses have the beautiful ability to be checked by the marketplace. I say that instead of looking to the GOVERNMENT to solve the issues of unsafe products or services reaching the market, we should instead rely on PRIVATE companies who stake their reputations on objective and reliable analysis of marketplace things.

For instance, if you're traveling overnight and wish to stay at an unfamiliar hotel, what can you do to make sure that you will be content with your purchase? Well, if you look at the front window, you might see a AAA sign. This sign signifies that the hotel meets the quality and standards that is expected by a 3 party (and private) entity that you've come to trust. Is their corruption between these corporations to collude and conspire to make more profits and the expense of their good name? Perhaps, but that's where personal responsibility comes into play in the free market, and that's where and when the dishonest companies would no longer be supported by the customers that once supported them.

This is not a safety issue, but it's similar in regards to the self-regulating nature of the free market:

Does anyone remember when Coca-Cola, back in the mid 80's, tried to convince us that "New Coke" tasted better and we would like it? They were wrong, obviously, but what makes Coca-Cola different from government is that they couldn't FORCE us to pay for it. They changed their product and they survived in the market place because they gave us what we were willing to pay for. But I digress.

I just wish the system that AAA and Consumer Reports worked out with the Hotel Industry would be carried over into the Food and Drug industry, and every other government regulated industry. My taxes would be a hell of a lot lower, and I would certainly be more inclined to trust the label on the package.

geez, why do I even get started on this?


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#203568 - 02/04/08 07:04 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
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Loc: NY state
Hauser, the concept of the consumer checking the marketplace is well and good in theory. In practice, it does not necessarily apply here. What the public is unaware of in hidden additives or scientifically engineered foods is the threat and yes I pay taxes that supports government agencies designed to monitor product and food saftey. Therefore it is their job to do the role they were set up to do.

The free market can be regulated of course by consumers response but when we are kept in the dark it is not possible to respond. Think about the fact that there is little press coverage or investigation here on this issue. At least Coca Cola told the market what they were introducing.

As for the AAA and the BBB, I happen to know if you are a paid member in good standing you get the association which really carries little significance but IS a psychological message of assurrance that may actually be faulty. Getting such a designation with a seal or symbol for a business does not really mean anything more than the business is a member. Whether the business actually meets a certain standard is very questionable. I know having been in the hospitality industry in my past career.
I also know the BBB membership goes to businesses who paid the dues to get into that club. In truth, neither carry any real weight.

As for labeling foods, that is part of the point of the video. However strong lobbyists prevent any such labels because then the consumer would actually stop buying the product. That is why I think it is absolutely the governments job to regulate food quality and uphold honesty in labeling and set a minimum standard.
Dan

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#203577 - 02/04/08 08:03 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Elad 12 Offline
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I live in the first, maybe the only County in the country that has voted to ban the growing of all GMO modified foods.
http://environmentalcommons.org/measure-h-intro.html

Dale


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#203602 - 02/04/08 10:14 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Elad 12]
GateKPR4 Offline
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Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I watched the movie. Some sick stuff going on there. Tomato's with flounder blood?, might have been on one of the others I watched. but anyway.
WTF is that all about?
The cross pollination is going to ruin other crops. The Pandora's box has already been opened. With the increase in use of these crops its almost inevitable that pure crops will be contaminated. What about all the cattle and hogs fed with this stuff then we eat them? Will it be the same as mercury in fish? Do the people that market this stuff eat it? Someones getting the bucks and it sure isn't us. But it looks like we will pay the price for their greed. It's time for change but not this way.
Just my 2 cents

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#203673 - 02/05/08 11:53 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: GateKPR4]
Hauser Offline
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Dale, I think that is a good and wise local move by that County's Government.

Dan I hear you ok? I would like to make the system of the FDA work too, but here is the problem I have with them (as far as looking out for US the consumers) Ummmmmm they're the GOVERNMENT. LOL

Ok, let me explain. When Government entities such as the FDA is given power to regulate, discriminate, fine, etc, they're not directly subject to the approval of we the consumers, no, they're instead subject to the whims of those who wield the MOST POLITICAL INFLUENCE, which ain't guys like you and me. The consequence of this? Let's use the FDA as an example ok?

The FDA was created at the behest of Congress in 1903 (I believe) after Upton Sinclair published a book called "The Jungle" which described in horror the details of the meat packing industry in the early 20th Century, among other things. There was such a public outcry that Congress created an entity that would "protect us" from unsafe food and drugs. Well, it worked for a while, but it has since morphed into a monstrous bureaucracy and a system that forces drug companies to invest up to a BILLION dollars just to get a drug "approved" by the FDA. Another unintended consequence of this system is that in order for the drug companies to get a good return for their investment, they must be able to patent the drug and have exclusive rights to sell it. So what? Right? Well, what if you're a scientist and happen to discover a NATURAL drug that CAN'T be patented? Guess what? The FDA, in their infinite wisdom, and because they're influenced by money given to the congressmen that appoint them, won't allow NATURAL substances to be sold as medicine. (Sometimes they do, actually, but only after a Judge orders them to do so) This is just one example of the unintended consequences of letting the government make personal decisions for us. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that by ABDICATING out personal responsibility to look out for ourselves, we allow the corruption, flow of influential money, and restrictions to our choices that inherently follow. Don't even get me started about Medical Marijuana. \:\) It's not just the FDA and the businesses that it regulates that is a problem,

Perhaps envisioning a self-regulating Market is hard to comprehend because we never even GAVE IT A CHANCE to work? There are many many many social issues and problems that we've never given the free market, and common law, the chance to solve.

I would love to have faith in Government to protect me from making bad choices, but I would prefer to rely instead on 3rd party information, and let me make my own investigations and choices.

Dan, you mentioned that you find AAA's mark of approval for the quality of a hotel that you're staying at questionable, that is good. This is because you're a smart guy, and you know that AAA can't FORCE any Hotel to comply with it's standards. Which means that "Buyer Beware" stays at the forefront of your thinking. You're not being lulled into a false sense of security by a Government Agency that "protects" you.

I guess my point is that we need to protect ourselves, with our own collective and VOLUNTARY rescources, rather than depending on the force and coercion of government to to "protect" us. It's my contention that they're main objective is to TAX us, with the idea of "protecting" us as the EXCUSE to do so.

May I make one last example, far away from the FDA? Let's talk about personal responsibility ok?

I was outraged recently when I read of a local story about a 18yo college student that died of alcohol poisoning. I wasn't mad at the fact that the student died, I was only sad about that, what I was MAD at, was the PARENTS that had the NERVE to SUE the college because they didn't "prevent" their son from drinking alcohol period. Now, how much you wanna bet that these parents never once let their son learn the social graces of, say, maybe having a glass of wine at the table, or how to drink responsibly? Oh, no, see, they didn't have to worry about doing THAT. Why? Oh, because, see, the GOVERNMENT was going to make sure that he didn't drink at all, so they didn't have to worry about teaching their son about drinking responsibly. I know that this is way off topic, but do you see what I'm getting at?

I now have to reply to Markgreyblue's Universal Health Care post. Gee, what do you think I'm gonna say? \:\)


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#203688 - 02/05/08 12:57 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
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Hauser,
I appreciate your well thought out points. I still return to the need for some regulation that requires truth in labeling and the only way thay will occur is by a law, regulation or mandate. A voluntary option will never work. I am familiar with the FDA creation Upton Sinclair's The Jungle.

We seem to hold philosophical differences about the role of government. I believe the government is responsible for regulating and monitoring this sort of issue. We are duped by companies all the time. Someone, somehow, somewhere we need to have a standard. Yes the agencies are large and full of problems but using that as a reason to say we don't need them. (it sounds like you are saying that) is an easy way out.

If we left the issue soley to corporations we would be screwed and all sorts of things would make it to the market. Thank God for the independant watch dog groups who bring the hidden things to light. I go back to the question of why do we pay taxes and have laws? Our government needs to be overhauled without eliminating agencies.

Personal responsibilty is a huge part of it but comparing a college kid drinking and the parents suing is comparing apples and oranges to me. We can only be personally responsible when we know what the choices are about. I go back to the point of labeling. Truth in advertising and knowing what we are buying and eating is morally and ethically a baseline or minimum standard.

In my eyes this is not the government making a choice for me, it is actually giving me a choice when they set standards in a free market. Take tobacco as an example. They now say on the label this is dangerous and unhealthy. It is the buyers choice and right to decide to use tobacco. They know the score. When I buy food, I want to know what I am buying so I have a choice. That is the power of consumers controlling the market. Right now we don't have a clue about what we are buying and eating.

Lastly, the government has no role in the AAA or BBB, they are not part of the government. They are independant organizations.
Take a look at the link I am pasting in this message. In spite of so -called standards, hotels may look pristine and shiny but the reality is they are dressed up flea bags. Thank God for the agencies like the health department who can monitor the practices and force change. That is why we need government regulations and standards.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1329217643/bctid1329232712
Dan


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#203691 - 02/05/08 01:40 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
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Hah! I love it! Could I have some extra flesh-eating-bacteria with my coke?


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#330079 - 04/28/10 07:31 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Hauser Offline
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Feds on GMO Labeling: Don't Tell, Don't Ask

If you were hoping there might be some change in the U.S. government's official position on genetically modified and genetically engineered (GM/GE) foods under the Obama administration, tough luck.

Last month there was the appointment of big-time GM/GE advocate (and former Monsanto lobbyist) Islam Siddiqui to Office of the United States Trade Representative as the country's chief agricultural negotiator . Now comes a position paper from the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) that opposes labeling for genetically modified food. The U.S. claims that letting consumers know whether or not food contains GM/GE products is "false, misleading, or deceptive."

You read that correctly. In Obama Newspeak, telling the public the truth is false, misleading, or deceptive, while concealing facts is not. Incidentally, the language is identical to that used by previous administrations. How's that for change?

The policy prompted yowls of outrage form more than 80 organic, environmental, food-production, and public-health groups. They dispatched a letter earlier this week urging Michael Taylor, who is deputy commissioner for foods at the FDA, and Kathleen Merrigan, deputy secretary of agriculture, to reconsider (click here for a PDF). "We are concerned that the current U.S. position could potentially create serious problems for food processors in the U.S. who wish to indicate that their products contain no GE ingredients, including on organic food," the letter said.

The administration intends to argue its position at a meeting of the Codex Committee on Food Labeling, a United Nations body that sets labeling rules for food in international trade. Codex will be meeting from May 3 to May 7 in Quebec City. The government feels Codex should not "suggest or imply that GM/GE foods are in any way different from other foods."

"The agenda of the biotech industry is that if consumers don't know about it, they will eat it," said Patty Lovera, assistant director of Washington, D. C.-based Food and Water Watch. "Our government shouldn't be carrying the water for the biotech industry, a group that tries not to let the public know what it is doing."

The new policy directly contradicts the USDA's current organic regulations, the groups point out in the letter. USDA organic rules prohibit modified seeds, and organic producers often label their products as being GM-free. "Such foods are clearly different," the letter states. "We are, in fact, concerned that that the current U.S. position appears to seek to establish a precedent at Codex that would make it difficult to label food as non-GM within the U.S."

Agribusiness would love nothing better.


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#330163 - 04/29/10 01:04 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
pufferfish Offline
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This post is about allergies to peanut butter versus soybean butter. It also talks about soybean burgers.

I am allergic to peanut butter. It's a food I consumed a lot of as a child without ill effects. But now I'm allergic to it as are a lot of folks. So we wonder why that would be. Have we changed or has the peanut?

I don't know the answer but this thread makes me wonder if it is some kind of genetically modified peanut that I'm allergic to. That would make sense.

Also, since I can't eat peanut butter, I started eating soybean butter. It tastes almost as good and seems to have only minor effects on my system.

Now I've discovered that I can eat veggie-burgers which are supposedly much better for my health than beef hamburger. And the soy-bean burgers are very easy to digest and provide almost as much protein. So, I've switched to soy-bean burgers.

But now I've discovered another interesting thing. I don't have any reaction to the soy-bean burgers but I have some reaction to soybean butter. The answer must reside in genetically engineered soybeans used in the soybean butter. The veggie-burgers are made from non-engineered soy beans.

Allen


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#330164 - 04/29/10 01:25 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
pufferfish Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danbuff

Agent Orange? a Chemical defoliant that causes birth defects and cancers and now is banned. This is dangerous science and


My wife died of the disease ALS, or Lou Gehrig's disease. It is a progressive neurological disease without cure.

Her neurology team was interviewing her as to possible causation. They had just about decided that her disease was caused by a genetic condition passed down through her family. I was in ther room and jumped in and told them that all the members of that family swam in Lake Erie during its highly polluted years. That really raised some eyebrows. eek They had totally not considered that another possible cause could explain the whole thing as well or better than their genetic hypothesis.

Furthermore, a man in our city also died of ALS before my wife. He had been a pilot in Viet Nam and had been involved in spraying agent orange over the jungles. It seems probable that his disease was caused by agent orange.

Originally Posted By: Danbuff

we have been eating so many products unknowingly affected for 30 years that were created from genetic engineering, it is a reasonable question to ask if it has any linkage to the astronomical rates of Autism, ADHD or countless other conditions


Particularly notable with regard to this is the tremendous increase in the rise of alzheimer's disease and parkinson's disease.

Allen

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#330273 - 04/29/10 11:27 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: pufferfish]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Genes in the food you eat can't affect you, guys, unless the genes cause the organism to create toxins. And if that happens, it doesn't take decades for you to notice. Everything you eat is metabolized within 48 hours tops; if nothing happens to you in that time frame, nothing's going to happen.

Sure, the federal government does not require food packaging to state whether the food is GM or not. It also doesn't require the packaging to state the name and address of the farmer whose field the crop was harvested from, and whether his harvester was built by Ford or John Deere. Why? Because those things don't matter.

GM's being "dangerous" is nothing but a marketing ploy, executed by food companies that grow and sell "organic" products. These products, nutritionally-speaking, are demonstrably no different from GM or mass-grown foods; but the refusal to use pesticides and other modern techniques makes them harder to grow, which causes them to have higher prices than similar, "non-organic" foods. And how on earth are you going to convince grocery store customers to spend an extra 30% on your product rather than buying a traditionally-produced competitor's cheaper version of the same thing? By claiming their food is "dangerous" because of GM, BGH, or what have you.

And no, genetic-modification is NOT something new, that has only happened in the last couple of decades. Genetic modification is as old as human agriculture. It's been around since the very first time a cattle rancher used his best bull to stud, or a tomato farmer decided this year to plant only seeds from the plants that best survived last year's bad drought. It's the exact same thing. It may be done with a needle in a lab, rather than waiting for the animals to be born, mature, and screw; but the result is the same, it just takes less time.

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#330644 - 05/02/10 01:57 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: melliferal]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
The issue as I see it is that GM products could affect one negatively over long term just like a constant intake of a small amount of some known toxic chemical will negatively affect a person.
The problem with the logic of it not harming one immediately or within 48 hours, is that it assumes the current model of the normal unmodified product will remain the model even as the product changes. This is a common and easy mistake for people to make.
But once you realize that the model must change as the item itself changes you begin to see that it isn't possible to know what the long term effects of a GMO organism that is independently changing as the changes it is put through by man happen. These independent changes are partly the mostly unknown side effects of the changes induced by man and partly the natural response of the organism. They are also introducing genes that produce the anti insect and fungi chemicals which are currently sprayed on the crops. How is this going to be OK to eat? Would you drink the chemical or have it sprinkled on the food before eating? This is a ploy by Monsanto and the rest to make the chemicals which are pretty universally harmful to man, seem natural since the plant is made to produce it. Estrogen like compounds comes to mind.
It is the mostly unknown aspect of GMO that gives rise to the suspicions and fears of unknown long term negative effects as well as fear of the extinction of the original species of food plants that are being modified through natural cross pollination.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#330657 - 05/02/10 03:15 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: kidneythis]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6705
Loc: USA
There are at least several problems with GMO crops:

1. They reduce diversity within the variety of the crop. Genetic diversity is a key to long-term stability of our food sources.

2. The companies that make the GMO seed become total monopolies. They make the "company store" scenario into a huge frankenstein monster. Do we trust one company which genetically engineers the seed, produces the seed, sells the seed, and controls the crop? Too much power vested in a small group of people is exceedingly dangerous.

Look what happened on Wall Street!!

3. The crops produced by GMO, lacking diversity, omit certain nutritional factors which are necessary for long-term health of the humans.

4. They also augment certain negative health effects such as allergies.

Allen


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#330668 - 05/02/10 03:43 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6705
Loc: USA
Eek! eek At the end of the film I saw a pufferfish going down the conveyer belt.

Originally Posted By: Danbuff
I am posting a link to a 53 minute documentary that will likely draw you into watching it completely. This is an example of science gone wrong and has numerous implications about big business and corporate influence in policy. I could comment further but will wait to hear reactions. I encourage you to look at this issue and perhaps spread the message. It is very alarming. Here is the link.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=GMO&hl=en&sitesearch
It is the FIRST VIDEO Poison or Panacea
Dan


No, seriously, guys this is important stuff. I know lots of you have heavy issues on your minds, but this is your chance to become informed about it.

Allen

pufferfish whistle


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#330704 - 05/02/10 05:57 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: kidneythis]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: kidneythis
The issue as I see it is that GM products could affect one negatively over long term just like a constant intake of a small amount of some known toxic chemical will negatively affect a person.
The problem with the logic of it not harming one immediately or within 48 hours, is that it assumes the current model of the normal unmodified product will remain the model even as the product changes. This is a common and easy mistake for people to make.
But once you realize that the model must change as the item itself changes you begin to see that it isn't possible to know what the long term effects of a GMO organism that is independently changing as the changes it is put through by man happen. These independent changes are partly the mostly unknown side effects of the changes induced by man and partly the natural response of the organism. They are also introducing genes that produce the anti insect and fungi chemicals which are currently sprayed on the crops. How is this going to be OK to eat? Would you drink the chemical or have it sprinkled on the food before eating? This is a ploy by Monsanto and the rest to make the chemicals which are pretty universally harmful to man, seem natural since the plant is made to produce it. Estrogen like compounds comes to mind.
It is the mostly unknown aspect of GMO that gives rise to the suspicions and fears of unknown long term negative effects as well as fear of the extinction of the original species of food plants that are being modified through natural cross pollination.


It's different from a case of slowly ingesting toxins and allowing them to build up in your system until they reach harmful levels in that when such a case happens, medical tests show that a person has too much of toxin "x" in their blood. Doctors are not finding a widespread epidemic of unexplained intoxication linked to any specific kind of food - genetically-modified or otherwise.

As for the plants that are being bred to produce natural insecticides and the like; the folly is assuming that anything that kills bugs is probably harmful to humans. Of course that's not the case. When you have a bacterial infection, for instance, you take an antibiotic. Antibiotic literally means "against life"; the compound's sole job is to kill a living organism that's inside you. This it does, without harming you. Likewise for things like weed killers - initially, weed killers could probably better be described as all-around "plant killers", in that they kill indescriminately. But if that was ever actually true, it isn't now: you can buy lawn treatment that kills weeds but leaves the grass alone. Bug sprays are sold for specific pests - you can buy Raid for ants, and Raid for wasps, but the wasp spray won't work on ants and vice versa. Even leaving artificial chemicals behind: grapes are excellent and very healthy for humans, but a natural compound produced in the skin of the grape will kill your dog. A bite from the most venomous spider on Earth, a nasty little piece of work called a "Funnel Web" spider, will kill a human or any other primate within a couple of hours; cats can get bitten repeatedly by them and aside from the bite hurting, the toxin has zero affect on them. Bottom line: something unhealthy for a weed or a bug does not necessarily affect you in any way. If genetically-modified crops produced harmful chemicals, they would show up in medical tests - and they don't. Meanwhile, there's something like a panic reaction because somebody somewhere thought up the idea that it's possible for GM crops to be poisoning humans and ran with it before waiting for some actual evidence.

As for lacking certain nutritive compounds; that may be true. But even if it is, the only way it would matter is if you ate only one particular GM crop and nothing else your entire life. Cooking vegetables often destroys, leeches, or otherwise removes all kinds of nutrients from them; yet we cook. That's because proper nutrition comes from eating more than one kind of food and not relying entirely on one specific item for any specific nutrient.

_________________________
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#330757 - 05/02/10 08:35 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: melliferal]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
You make too many assumptions and overlook other things that are plainly questionable.
Just because the food does not kill a person directly it doesn't mean it won't over time. It isn't necessarily toxins that will do it it might be some genetic strain that makes something in our bodies react badly over time.
As for antibiotics they are far from harmless. They kill a lot more normal body cells than they do disease cells. In fact too much antibiotic will kill you.

Have you heard of the killer potato? Probably not as it has been pretty effectively covered up.
A synopsis of the story is this. Scientists were trying to develop a better potato. During the process they were testing the potato on rodents. At one point a certain strain of potato killed every animal that ate it. Turns out the modifications had altered the potato so that it was toxic to life. I forget the story exactly I read the book about it 12 years ago and it happened in the early 1990's. The scientists who tried to publisize this result were fired and sued to shut them up. It worked.



Edited by kidneythis (05/02/10 08:36 PM)
_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#445179 - 08/22/13 10:34 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: Danbuff]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 2970
Loc: O Kanada


GMO is bad for living things IMHO.

so many other things we consume as consumers is not healthy.

Food - The Ultimate Secret Exposed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMwXlikoFrM

FOOD THAT KILLS (full documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNCGkprGW_o

'Sweet Misery' A Poisoned World

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8A8649JLl4
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/01/19/the-shocking-story-of-how-aspartame-became-legal/
http://rense.com/general33/legal.htm

and then there was this...
"Bottom line: There are no aborted embryonic or fetal cells in any of PepsiCo’s final products.
But: Aborted cells are used in the development of artificial flavor enhancers by biotech company Senomyx, with which PepsiCo signed a four-year, $30 million agreement in 2010 for research and development."
http://www.dailymarkets.com/stock/2010/08/19/pepsico-senomyx-in-sweetener-deal/
http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/confused-about-the-pepsi-fetal-cell-issue-here-are-the-facts/
"Senomyx develops patented flavor enhancers by using “proprietary taste receptor-based assay systems.” These receptors are made from HEK293. HEK stands for Human Embryonic Kidney cells. These cells, which were cloned, originally came from healthy, electively aborted human embryos. Using information from the human genome sequence, Senomyx has identified hundreds of taste receptors and currently owns 113 patents on their discoveries."
http://www.cogforlife.org/pepsiresponse.pdf
http://www.cogforlife.org/pepsiresponse042012.pdf
http://www.cogforlife.org/senomyxproof.htm
http://www.cogforlife.org/pepsiboycottnews.htm

science is stranger than fiction.


have you heard of Codex Alimentarius?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwVHeHhiLfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IcwCjWO40o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTs408Nzl0A
http://www.who.int/foodsafety/codex/en/
http://www.codexalimentarius.org/
_________________________
Victor|Victim

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#445181 - 08/22/13 10:52 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eating [Re: victor-victim]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6705
Loc: USA
I love popped corn. Weight Watchers and Dr. Oz now say it's OK to eat it. BUT - Regular popcorn from the store is genetically modified. It has a molecule of pesticide inserted in it. So I discovered I could taste the pesticide. After eating the popped corn I had a pesticide after taste in my mouth. That bothers me. I found a store that sells unmodified popcorn. Now I buy it there. It doesn't give me the after taste.

Puffer (not popper)


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