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#202398 - 01/29/08 08:27 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Hauser,
I am glad you saw it. It is pretty powerful and scary. I try buying organic but it's very pricey. I try buying local in season when I can. Yes the FDA and government are a joke. Labels are not required to disclose that dirty little secret on labels. They lobby against it. Europeans do require it.

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#202439 - 01/29/08 10:39 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I would rather pay a little bit more for organic food than go to a doctor later on because I have cancer or whatever.

Do you REALLY think that insecticide "washes off" produce when you rinse it? Every tomato, apple, pear, etc that you buy that isn't organic has POISON sprayed on it.


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#202539 - 01/30/08 09:08 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Yup, you are correct Hauser.

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#203443 - 02/03/08 11:37 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
dgoods Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
I can't remember the author, but i recall reading an article about tomatoes, wherein the food industry paid big bucks to create what it considered to be the "perfect" tomato; seedless, square-shaped for more efficent packing, appealing bright red color, firm-fleshed to resist bruising, a thicker, more pest-and blemish-resistant skin. The only problem was, it had no flavor whatsoever... it failed miserably at being a tomato! As far as the other issues, it reminds me very much of Big Pharma's success in rushing drugs (especially psychiatric ones) to market before any long-term effects are known. I trust something that's been on the market for fifty years or longer, by and large, but just recently i've witnessed "headline wars" over caffeine- "study 'A' says caffeine does blah-blah horrible thing", followed by "study 'B' says caffeine does blah-blah beneficial thing", followed YET AGAIN by "study 'C' says caffeine does blah-blah OTHER horrible thing". I feel like i'm being fought over by Agri-Biz on the one hand, and the insurance-driven Body Police on the other... either way, it's about making money, whether caffeine is really bad for me or not.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#203545 - 02/04/08 04:50 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: dgoods]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
dgoods,
The truth is it is ALL about business profits. Then when humans start to develop unforseen side effects, who else can step in to fight the side effects? The pharmaceuticals of course. More money driven than ever....

You my friend are absolutely correct!
Peace,
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#203550 - 02/04/08 05:12 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
But businesses have the beautiful ability to be checked by the marketplace. I say that instead of looking to the GOVERNMENT to solve the issues of unsafe products or services reaching the market, we should instead rely on PRIVATE companies who stake their reputations on objective and reliable analysis of marketplace things.

For instance, if you're traveling overnight and wish to stay at an unfamiliar hotel, what can you do to make sure that you will be content with your purchase? Well, if you look at the front window, you might see a AAA sign. This sign signifies that the hotel meets the quality and standards that is expected by a 3 party (and private) entity that you've come to trust. Is their corruption between these corporations to collude and conspire to make more profits and the expense of their good name? Perhaps, but that's where personal responsibility comes into play in the free market, and that's where and when the dishonest companies would no longer be supported by the customers that once supported them.

This is not a safety issue, but it's similar in regards to the self-regulating nature of the free market:

Does anyone remember when Coca-Cola, back in the mid 80's, tried to convince us that "New Coke" tasted better and we would like it? They were wrong, obviously, but what makes Coca-Cola different from government is that they couldn't FORCE us to pay for it. They changed their product and they survived in the market place because they gave us what we were willing to pay for. But I digress.

I just wish the system that AAA and Consumer Reports worked out with the Hotel Industry would be carried over into the Food and Drug industry, and every other government regulated industry. My taxes would be a hell of a lot lower, and I would certainly be more inclined to trust the label on the package.

geez, why do I even get started on this?


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#203568 - 02/04/08 07:04 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Hauser]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Hauser, the concept of the consumer checking the marketplace is well and good in theory. In practice, it does not necessarily apply here. What the public is unaware of in hidden additives or scientifically engineered foods is the threat and yes I pay taxes that supports government agencies designed to monitor product and food saftey. Therefore it is their job to do the role they were set up to do.

The free market can be regulated of course by consumers response but when we are kept in the dark it is not possible to respond. Think about the fact that there is little press coverage or investigation here on this issue. At least Coca Cola told the market what they were introducing.

As for the AAA and the BBB, I happen to know if you are a paid member in good standing you get the association which really carries little significance but IS a psychological message of assurrance that may actually be faulty. Getting such a designation with a seal or symbol for a business does not really mean anything more than the business is a member. Whether the business actually meets a certain standard is very questionable. I know having been in the hospitality industry in my past career.
I also know the BBB membership goes to businesses who paid the dues to get into that club. In truth, neither carry any real weight.

As for labeling foods, that is part of the point of the video. However strong lobbyists prevent any such labels because then the consumer would actually stop buying the product. That is why I think it is absolutely the governments job to regulate food quality and uphold honesty in labeling and set a minimum standard.
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#203577 - 02/04/08 08:03 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Danbuff]
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
I live in the first, maybe the only County in the country that has voted to ban the growing of all GMO modified foods.
http://environmentalcommons.org/measure-h-intro.html

Dale


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#203602 - 02/04/08 10:14 PM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: Elad 12]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I watched the movie. Some sick stuff going on there. Tomato's with flounder blood?, might have been on one of the others I watched. but anyway.
WTF is that all about?
The cross pollination is going to ruin other crops. The Pandora's box has already been opened. With the increase in use of these crops its almost inevitable that pure crops will be contaminated. What about all the cattle and hogs fed with this stuff then we eat them? Will it be the same as mercury in fish? Do the people that market this stuff eat it? Someones getting the bucks and it sure isn't us. But it looks like we will pay the price for their greed. It's time for change but not this way.
Just my 2 cents

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I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
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#203673 - 02/05/08 11:53 AM Re: GMO Genetically Modified Organisms You are eat [Re: GateKPR4]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Dale, I think that is a good and wise local move by that County's Government.

Dan I hear you ok? I would like to make the system of the FDA work too, but here is the problem I have with them (as far as looking out for US the consumers) Ummmmmm they're the GOVERNMENT. LOL

Ok, let me explain. When Government entities such as the FDA is given power to regulate, discriminate, fine, etc, they're not directly subject to the approval of we the consumers, no, they're instead subject to the whims of those who wield the MOST POLITICAL INFLUENCE, which ain't guys like you and me. The consequence of this? Let's use the FDA as an example ok?

The FDA was created at the behest of Congress in 1903 (I believe) after Upton Sinclair published a book called "The Jungle" which described in horror the details of the meat packing industry in the early 20th Century, among other things. There was such a public outcry that Congress created an entity that would "protect us" from unsafe food and drugs. Well, it worked for a while, but it has since morphed into a monstrous bureaucracy and a system that forces drug companies to invest up to a BILLION dollars just to get a drug "approved" by the FDA. Another unintended consequence of this system is that in order for the drug companies to get a good return for their investment, they must be able to patent the drug and have exclusive rights to sell it. So what? Right? Well, what if you're a scientist and happen to discover a NATURAL drug that CAN'T be patented? Guess what? The FDA, in their infinite wisdom, and because they're influenced by money given to the congressmen that appoint them, won't allow NATURAL substances to be sold as medicine. (Sometimes they do, actually, but only after a Judge orders them to do so) This is just one example of the unintended consequences of letting the government make personal decisions for us. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that by ABDICATING out personal responsibility to look out for ourselves, we allow the corruption, flow of influential money, and restrictions to our choices that inherently follow. Don't even get me started about Medical Marijuana. \:\) It's not just the FDA and the businesses that it regulates that is a problem,

Perhaps envisioning a self-regulating Market is hard to comprehend because we never even GAVE IT A CHANCE to work? There are many many many social issues and problems that we've never given the free market, and common law, the chance to solve.

I would love to have faith in Government to protect me from making bad choices, but I would prefer to rely instead on 3rd party information, and let me make my own investigations and choices.

Dan, you mentioned that you find AAA's mark of approval for the quality of a hotel that you're staying at questionable, that is good. This is because you're a smart guy, and you know that AAA can't FORCE any Hotel to comply with it's standards. Which means that "Buyer Beware" stays at the forefront of your thinking. You're not being lulled into a false sense of security by a Government Agency that "protects" you.

I guess my point is that we need to protect ourselves, with our own collective and VOLUNTARY rescources, rather than depending on the force and coercion of government to to "protect" us. It's my contention that they're main objective is to TAX us, with the idea of "protecting" us as the EXCUSE to do so.

May I make one last example, far away from the FDA? Let's talk about personal responsibility ok?

I was outraged recently when I read of a local story about a 18yo college student that died of alcohol poisoning. I wasn't mad at the fact that the student died, I was only sad about that, what I was MAD at, was the PARENTS that had the NERVE to SUE the college because they didn't "prevent" their son from drinking alcohol period. Now, how much you wanna bet that these parents never once let their son learn the social graces of, say, maybe having a glass of wine at the table, or how to drink responsibly? Oh, no, see, they didn't have to worry about doing THAT. Why? Oh, because, see, the GOVERNMENT was going to make sure that he didn't drink at all, so they didn't have to worry about teaching their son about drinking responsibly. I know that this is way off topic, but do you see what I'm getting at?

I now have to reply to Markgreyblue's Universal Health Care post. Gee, what do you think I'm gonna say? \:\)


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