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#199317 - 01/13/08 04:50 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: AndyJB2005]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
The air I breath, the feelings I have, my thoughts and darkness or light are not sources of science. Whether in my house or elsewhere, science has nothing to do with it. Did science create man?

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#199320 - 01/13/08 05:09 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: Danbuff]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
who created god?


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#199321 - 01/13/08 05:14 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: evanesence]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
something I would like to know is, If God did respond to every request to end evil, who of us would be alive? Doesn't He get a bad rap for "killing" people in the old testament who sinned? Well, if He stopped all evil today, all of us would die, but instead, He is a loving and merciful God, so even the abusers He gives time to repent and see forgiveness.

You may scoff and say, "They don't deserve it...", or "I would be glad for Him to kill them, but not 'innocent' people"...that's also ironic, because the same kind of people who say that they wish God would do these things blast the U.S. government for using methods such as "waterboarding" to interrogate Al-Queda representatives (murderers and terrorists)...so our government is supposed to be humane with murderers, but God isn't? But then, when God has given examples in His Word where He did intervene and judge sin, He's still blamed for being unfair and cruel? Circular reasoning is right...men always look for excuses not to acknowledge the Creator--he wishes you would cry out to Him and blame Him for the abuse cause then at least you wouldn't be neglecting Him.

_________________________
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Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#199360 - 01/13/08 11:35 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: bp83]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
okay...I guess I'll take that as an affirmitive or that no one can answer my question...my point is made.

_________________________
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Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#199934 - 01/17/08 12:20 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: bp83]
NoOneImportant Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 36
I can't give anyone evidence, not the concrete kind many want, that God exists. But I know he exists. Call me crazy, but seriously, I felt Him hug me once. If was after the death of my 3rd or 4th child, I really don't remember, my life has been such a blur lately. I was sitting on the floor of my room. Alone, no one was home. I was praying, but I don't remember what. But I felt Fim behind me. Felt Him put his arms around me. Weirdest and most amazing thing I think I've ever experienced.



Edited by NoOneImportant (01/17/08 12:21 PM)

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#200001 - 01/17/08 08:05 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: bp83]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
Originally Posted By: bp83
something I would like to know is, If God did respond to every request to end evil, who of us would be alive? Doesn't He get a bad rap for "killing" people in the old testament who sinned? Well, if He stopped all evil today, all of us would die


This statement to me insinuates that all people are inherently evil. I completely disagree with this notion. Few people in this world are Evil and they didn't start that way. a baby isn't born wanting to harm people it is learned behavior.


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#200899 - 01/23/08 01:02 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: theatrekid]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
I am sorry I have to laught when I read How can there be a God. I am almost 59 years old. My IQ consistantly measures 140 which isn't Genius by any standard but is not stupid either. And yet to contemplate the existance of God is an effort in futility if I just look around at science and nature. Here is the problem with God. I in my finite little mind and trying to grasp the concept if a All knowing, Omnipresent, God who exists in all the known dimentions that science believes exists. That is big. That actually is quite comfortable when you think about it. What is NOT comfortable is a PERSONAL god who has his own rules.
No one wants that. Unfortunately that is what we are stuck with. The God of this universe and who knows countless others is extremely personal. He was here at the beginning of man's existance if we are to believe him. All he wanted from us was companionship, loyalty and obedience. Not arbritary Obedience either. Obedience for our own safety and well being. He wanted us to be happy and healthy.
But that wasn't enough for us we wanted to be God ourselves. Still do. He wrote his law. his comandments in each of our hearts so we would recognize him because he is Spirit and for a while we are flesh. He tried to communicate with us over the long years with writings and prophets and oracles and even became thru a supernatural miracle which he frequently does, a human man. As a God/man he tried again to teach us that failure to love and obey his laws is hurtful to us and to each other and would bring death in this life and the life to come. He gave his own body and blood to pay this cost and reconcile us so we could be his companion and communicate with him again as friends. He took up his dead body and went back to the eather and sent a stronger manifestation of his spirit to be with us and encourage and comfort us. He gave us more writings and documentation through his followers and allowed it to be put into book form so that we would be reminded of his teaching and his care for us. After all that down through the ages of miracles, writings, teaching, incarnation well still look at the heavens and ask "ok but is there anyone else out there that we can talk to??"
I think we like God or the concept as hard as it is to understand. And remember we the finite are trying ot understand the infinite. What we don't like is an intelligence beyond our understanding trying to tell us how to live. Especially when we have gone thru what feels like hell already.
Is he there? oh yeah!
Does he care?, most certainly.
Will he help? oh yeah but there are rules.
He won't break them. Neither can we with out consequence.
The big problem everyone has with God is he is personal, and he has rules.
How we long for the "Force".

Matthew "Come unto me all you that labor and are heavy laden, I will give you rest. Come learn of me, my yoke is easy and my burden is light"

Roger


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#200901 - 01/23/08 01:15 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: theatrekid]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
A child is born. He is the center of his universe. As he gets bigger. He will want to be "god". He will want contol. Total control. If he is nice he will share control with others. If his is not so nice he will seek control of others. Then will come frustration and anger and pain. This is the good scenario. Most of us here have experienced the worst scenario. What he will seldom understand till he is old. Control is an illusion.

Roger


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#200933 - 01/23/08 03:17 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: BJK]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Bryan
I am taking a graduate level course in Spirituality and want to point out that Christains don't lay claim to the Golden Rule. Hardly! Every major religion and minor religions as well all sate the same teaching. It is in Jewish faith, the Koran, Buddhist, Aboriginal(Native American), Mormon, and even Wiccan. I can appreciate anyone who has trouble with major religions, Institutions and organized religion in general. All faiths have radical elements. Hence the terrorists who claim to behave under some devine message as they interpret the meaning in a radical way. Muslims, Christians or anyone. They are always the reasons behind war and chaos.The truth is all religions tend to share more in common than differences.

To blame or label Christians or anyone as bad is in effect acting the same as those you claim to be bothered by. That is not you persoanlly per se, but is a universal truth. As the saying that goes something like this, What is it about that person that I dislike that is also like myself.

While I am no theological expert, far from it, I do keep learning and find many of my long held anti-faith beliefs were misinformed. Admittedly, some were biased and anger based. I have however reached a different place and continue to learn. We can learn a lot from each other but when in doubt, question it to seek some other meaning. And sometimes, there are no "right answers"

Peace,
Dan



Edited by Danbuff (01/23/08 03:59 PM)

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#200988 - 01/23/08 08:42 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: Danbuff]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
Originally Posted By: Danbuff
The air I breath, the feelings I have, my thoughts and darkness or light are not sources of science. Whether in my house or elsewhere, science has nothing to do with it. Did science create man?


IT has every thing to do with science. every single thing in your life has a scientific explanation. whether you want to accept that explanation or not that is up to you. I you choosing to use faith to explain things is fine with me so long as there isn't a scientific explanation. But every thing you just mentioned is completely Natural there is absolutely nothing Supernatural about Air, Light, or your Feelings.

You ask did science create man. The answer is yes. Man is here because of Evolution, through millions of years of natural selection we have separated from other mammals and become the great species we are today.

Evolution has been proven. it is fact that Darwin IS Right! DNA shows us how closely related we are to other mammals. The fossil record has shown us the steps we took to go from lower levels of apes to the creatures we are today.Similar fossil records exist for all animals.

In laboratories all across the world testing has been done to prove evolution is real. The reason why a vaccine that used to work 25 years ago doesn't work today is proof of evolution at work.

Science can't prove that there isn't a god. because god isn't based on the natural world. God is a belief in the Supernatural. for something to be considered truth in science it must be observed that means you must be able to use your senses to experience it.

If some one finds comfort in there beliefs that is GREAT there is nothing wrong with that. by no means do i mean to tell someone they are wrong for following any religion. but they are beliefs you don't have proof to back them up. you have faith to back them up. the scientific community doesn't except faith as proof of something and I don't either.

Christopher



Edited by theatrekid (01/23/08 10:02 PM)

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