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#201010 - 01/23/08 10:53 PM Seeking Love Guidance
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 243
Loc: NYC
I've been dating this guy since New Years. I'm twenty-six, and this is my first relationship. He's thirty-four. I think I love him and I miss him when I'm not with him. But he wants to see me all the time, and it's a little scary. He texts and calls constantly. He drops hints that I should move in with him, since his roommate is talking about moving out. It's too fast. I haven't been writing, or reading. Writing always pulled me through my darkest days. It kept me going when I had no one. If I give it up, it's like giving up a part of my soul. But I'm with this guy five days a week, and I'm conked out the other two.

Our first fight happened when I told him about my sexual abuse by a teacher from eight to ten. He was drunk, and I probably chose the wrong moment to open up to him. But he was cruel in a way that reminded me of my parents' reaction, and the reaction of the first therapist I went to. Why didn't I say anything? Did I like it? What was wrong with me not to tell anyone? I yelled back at him. I slept on his couch, dreaming a series of nightmares about vengeful ghosts and broken toys.

He apologized the next day and I missed him, so we made up. A few days later, I sent him a text message in reply to one he sent me. He said I should take a taxi to his apartment and surprise him. I didn't read it until the next day, and I made a stupid joke about me being there and him not noticing. He said that that was sick, and that the pedophile filled my head with sick, rape-colored things, and he would leave me if I didn't forget all of it. We went back and forth for half the day. There was some truth to what he was saying, on some subconscious level. On the other hand, he makes vulgar jokes all the time, far worse than that one little text message. We made up that night.

He talks about his problems all the time, his history of madness and drug abuse. He was a crack addict for several years, living in hotels. He's still trying to get his life together. He cried in front of me talking about it. But I can't tell him my story. He doesn't want to hear what I've been through, or even that I understand madness and emotional destitution too.

Yes, I do love him. He's so hurt. I want to help him. And, somewhere, I'd rather help him that have him help me. That's always been my character. I just want some advice. Everything is happening so quickly, and I don't have time to think about it. I need someone to reassure me, or allow me to see it from a new perspective.


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#201020 - 01/24/08 12:12 AM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Bewlayb1]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
Quote:
I've been dating this guy since New Years.


Wow. That's 22 days. That's not a lot of time.

I think I'm picking up the same red flags you seem to be, and yeah, they're worrying me.

You're not doing the things that really help you (writing).
He wants you to move in after basically three weeks.
He will "leave you if you don't forget all of it"???
He's allowed to be hurt and in pain and you're not. His dark secrets don't leave any room for yours.

BB, this guy seems to be looking for a live-in counselor, not a lover. He isn't looking for some of your time, affection and energy: he wants it all. None left over for you. And if you've been trained to ignore your own needs to meet someone else's needs, this probably feels like what you're used to. Maybe it feels comfortable.

You have another hurt person -- you -- whom you're just learning to help and support. Listen to yourself.

Quote:
It's too fast.

Quote:
He doesn't want to hear what I've been through.

Quote:
Everything is happening so quickly, and I don't have time to think about it.


You can love him, and still realize that you won't make the sacrifices he's demanding you make. You can still hold out for someone who will support you, move at your pace, and offer as much understanding as he's asking for.

I'm not big on telling people what to do, but I see serious red flags here. Insist on someone who respects your time, your boundaries, and your experiences! (I think this ends with you moving on.)


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#201026 - 01/24/08 12:29 AM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: MemoryVault]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Bew, (rhymes with Beau, i'm from south louisiana)

Listen to what MV says. As I was reading your post, I was thinking these very same thoughts - every one, like a shopping list. Thank you MV for taking the time to post this. Red flags all over the place.

Bew, a new love is exciting and passionate. Don't let that blind you to reality. You're new boyfriend is looking for a mother, not a lover. You and he will be co-dependant together...

Listen to MemoryVault. He's absolutely right.

Laz

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#201066 - 01/24/08 08:19 AM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Lazarus]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
Thought about this last night:

There are people who grew up with and got used to happy relationships, and people who didn't (like most of us).

Your heart leads you to what's familiar.

The people who grew up with good stuff should listen to their hearts.

The rest of us need to listen to our heads.

Our hearts will learn, but only after we get them used to good people and situations. Until then, they're like a puppy on a leash, always pulling us in their own direction. "Oh, he's messed up and ignores me/uses me/treats me like I'm used to being treated--I LOVE him!!!"

Sometimes, even if healthy, together people aren't nearly as exciting, even threatening ("Why would someone who isn't messed up want me???"}, you need to hit the "override" button and open up to them anyway.

Our hearts do learn, but we have to feed them lots of good experiences first.

Good luck!


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#201067 - 01/24/08 08:27 AM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Lazarus]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
I have to agree with the fellas on this one. He seems to be guided by his insecurities, and he's letting them make all of his decisions for him. That's not something that's likely to change anytime soon.

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#201069 - 01/24/08 08:37 AM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: cbfull]
NoOneImportant Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 36
I agree as well. I read this last night and wasn't sure how to respond. His actions as they're listed made me uncomfortable just reading about them. The fact that he got nasty when you told him about your abuse I think says it all. I know he was drunk, but the truth is, when people are drunk, what they're feeling inside is usually what comes out. I can tell you care about this fella, but you gotta take care of yourself first.


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#201158 - 01/24/08 03:55 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: NoOneImportant]
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Add me to the list. I agree with MV and the rest.

It's only been 22 days and he's trying to control you, disregards your needs and wants you to move in with him. It is too soon.

About using your head instead of your heart, unfortunately that's what you have to learn to do, that's what we all needed to do to move out of the situations that we ended up in into new better healthier situations.

Sometimes you have to be 'selfish' in a good way. You have to think about yourself, about your own well being, your own problems, about your own solutions. Once you've dealt with your own issues sufficiently and can think with your intellect more than your heart then you can make better decisions about people that say they 'love' you.

Take good care of yourself, you've got a lot of friends here that will try to help you through the rough spots.

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#201249 - 01/25/08 01:54 AM Re: Seeking Love Guidance *DELETED* [Re: Bewlayb1]
krayoss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 112
Loc: west
Post deleted by krayoss


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#201310 - 01/25/08 12:03 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: krayoss]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 243
Loc: NYC
Wow, I was not expecting those reactions. What I see that you don't is how well we get along, how happy we are most of the time. He's not a crackhead now. For many years, I was insane and utterly lost. But, I found my way. I learned to speak when once I was almost completely mute. I changed. He's not the same person he was either. I've spent enough time with him to know that.

He is a mess. He admits that he's a mess. But so am I, and everyone I've been seriously attracted to has been as fucked up in their heads as I am. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't understand what it's like to suffer. I don't want to be coddled and pitied. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just never appealed to me. I don't trust sympathy, and I never will.

I'm his first boyfriend in five years and he's my first relationship since the CSA. Something powerful pulls is together. And yes, it's not all good, but our connection, we both know, is rare. I won't move in with him too soon. I won't give up writing. I'm a strong enough person to avoid those traps. But I can't help who I love.

I feel so empty most of the time, as if I lack a soul. My personality was destroyed at eight. I was a lunatic until nineteen, twenty, or twenty-one. This person who I am often feels false, hollow. I will always choose my heart over my head, because it's the only way I feel anything, good, or bad.

Thanks, though. I know you were all trying to help.


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#201323 - 01/25/08 01:12 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Bewlayb1]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Wow Bewlayb1! Well I guess that's it then. You sound like you've made up your mind.

However, lest we all forget, let me remind you of some of the things you said that caused most of us to react with negativity towards your new beau;

Originally Posted By: Bewlayb1
He drops hints that I should move in with him, since his roommate is talking about moving out. It's too fast. I haven't been writing, or reading. Writing always pulled me through my darkest days. It kept me going when I had no one. If I give it up, it's like giving up a part of my soul. But I'm with this guy five days a week, and I'm conked out the other two.

Our first fight happened when I told him about my sexual abuse by a teacher from eight to ten. But he was cruel in a way that reminded me of my parents' reaction... I slept on his couch, dreaming a series of nightmares about vengeful ghosts and broken toys.

I made a stupid joke about me being there and him not noticing. He said that that was sick, and that the pedophile filled my head with sick, rape-colored things, and he would leave me if I didn't forget all of it.

He talks about his problems all the time, But I can't tell him my story. He doesn't want to hear what I've been through...

I want to help him.


I'm probably going to get into trouble for saying this in a not-so-sensitive manner, but here goes anyway. You don't love this guy, you want to save him. But you can't save him because you are just as needy as he is.

Yes, perhaps you have a lot in common with him (and THAT should be a red flag in itself) and have made some sort of connection, but it looks to me like he's using you and you want to be used. You really don't believe you deserve anyone better than him, and figure you'll never find a 'normal' person who will love you for who you are. I'm here to tell you that you are wrong. It's fine to want to help someone, but not if you have to sacrifice yourself to do it. He's 30-something and if he hasn't started getting his act together yet, it's gonna be a long, hard road. And there's not going to be any room along the way for YOU to heal.

Mark my words; if you settle for this guy for some altruistic reason, it will never last for long, but while it does it will be nothing but drama, trauma and pain in store for you. He's an insensitive, addictive personality who's only looking for a roommate to help him pay the bills. He'll probably expect you to clean house and do his laundry too. He's already noticed that he can be as rude to you as he wants, and you'll forgive him. He doesn't want to be 'saved' by you, he wants somebody he can manipulate into doing whatever he wants. He certainly doesn't have your best interests at heart.

Bewlayb, I wish you no ill. If your first post was honest, you are in serious danger. You will not heal with this guy, you will not grow or prosper. I hope I am wrong, since you seem to have made up your mind, but if I am wrong then everybody else who has replied to your request for guidance is wrong too.

Best regards and good luck!

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#201338 - 01/25/08 03:06 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Lazarus]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
I respect your choice, Bewlayb, though I am still concerned.

If you're going to go ahead with this relationship, you can work towards making it fit your needs.

What would he say if you told him:

  • I don't want to go out with you tonight. It's important to me to stay here and write. How about Thursday?
  • I need you to listen to what I've been dealing with as much as I listen to your issues. I need you to sit down now and listen to me.
  • Do not make fun of me. Ever.
  • I'm overwhelmed as it is, and I'm nowhere near ready to move in with you.
  • I'm here for you, but I can't solve any of your problems.
  • You're not the star of the show, and I'm not the audience. We're in this together.


Would he be able to hear those needs, however you would express them, and change the pattern of this relationship? If so, maybe you could work together. But if you're not happy with it, this early in the game (and I still pick up from your original message that you're not), it's probably not going to get better by itself.

Take care!


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#201360 - 01/25/08 05:48 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Bewlayb1]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Bewlayb1,

I'll add another suggestion to the good feedback you're already hearing. There's a whole bunch of signs of an alcoholic/addicted style of relationship here. You don't have to drink to have it. It's powerful stuff and I've been there. You can learn about this for free at Al-anon groups and their literature, meet people to talk to about stuff that care and understand and get helpful advice. Heard of it? It's not a religion, and most people have given me a ton of freedom to adapt it to my beliefs, life and needs.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#201421 - 01/25/08 11:16 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: LandOfShadow]
blueshift Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I totally agree with MV. I understand about wanting to be with someone who has been through the shadowland like you have, i tend to feel the same way. I tend to feel nothing for people who are all normal, well adjusted, have all their sh* together and treat people who have issues like lepers. But I think MV is right. Being with someone who has "been there" will do nothing for you if this person still treats you selfishly and/or disrespectfully. If he says he is sorry, being sorry is only part of what you should expect from him. The other part is actually changing the behavior. If he keeps on hurting you, he isn't sorry for hurting you, he's just sorry about you being mad at him.

_________________________
My Story
My Art

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#201784 - 01/27/08 04:18 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: blueshift]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 243
Loc: NYC
Thanks for those responses, MV, LoS and BlShft. You all make good points. I have to love SO MUCH, and so does he. It's too intense sometimes. We are addictive, wounded and possessive people. I honestly don't know if it will work. But I'm not ready to give up, and you were all pretty sensitive to that.

I don't mean to create animosity, but Lazurus' response was typically blunt and judgemental. I am as needy as he is. That comes as no great shock. For years, I cried and held myself and dreamed of someone loving me. I created bizarre fantasies in my mind, since I was unable to carry on a conversation, of strangers seducing me, of running into one on the street, or in bathroom, and of him virtually raping me. I was so alone. Life was such a nightmare. I look to love to make me whole, and I can't stop. I can't stop wanting to help someone who is suffering, partly because no one helped me.

Is saving someone love? Maybe I'm so screwed up in my head, it's the only way I can love. It's the only thing that feels like love. It's not just from the abuse. My parents were depressed, unfulfilled people who were too emotionally dependent on their children. But, can I undo that? I've gone through many changes, and I've gotten a feel for what I cannot change.

A line comes to mind from a poem I wrote at nineteen, seven years ago, when I had almost no experience with men. "If I'm to touch again, it must be to heal." It is a line that is both noble and disturbing. I'm aware of that. Don't you think that I would stop repeating it if I could?

To suggest that, since he has issues as painful as mine, there's no way he can love is offensive and ridiculous. Does that mean that only perfect people can love? Well, then why don't we all just throw in the towel at this website. Then, you're the one who sounds like you think you don't deserve love. He doesn't make me do his laundry. If he only wanted a roommate he could put an ad in the paper. I'm a smart person. I see him clearly. Don't pretend that you know him.

It's apparent that I have mixed feelings. Or more accurately, I go through extremes. I love him so much. He's so mean to me. No, I don't know where this is heading. But I realize I won't listen to anyone. We'll see. Can't end it yet.


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#201789 - 01/27/08 04:45 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Bewlayb1]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Bewlab,

No animosity, no hard feeling; from my end anyway, I certainly hope I didn't bruise you with my usual, judgemental response. I felt someone had to say it. You are absolutely free to disregard it; it's only one man's opinion.

I wish you the best of luck, love and life!

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#201921 - 01/27/08 11:44 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: Lazarus]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Bewlab,
Likewise, no animosity or hard feelings. I think relationships can teach you a lot about yourself, but I think you need outside perspectives. Abused people repeat patterns in their relationships. Like "the drauma triangle" : playing various roles as abuser, rescuer and victim.

Couples counciling with my boyfriend/partner taught us both a lot of good stuff.

Be well, be good and kind to each other.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#202036 - 01/28/08 12:07 PM Re: Seeking Love Guidance [Re: LandOfShadow]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Bewlab, I'm really glad that you brought this issue here.

It would surprise me if I were to find out that there are people in this community (malesurvivor.org) who did not have at least one emotionally chaotic relationship, at least once they decided to try to maintain a healthy one.

Sometimes I think that people like us (survivors) are destined to go through those sort of codependent and highly volatile relationships, almost as if fate would have it that way. I also can't help but wonder if that's where all the heartfelt alerts and warnings are coming from in this thread (and they are truly heartfelt). We remember feeling responsible for how crazy the relationship was, and since we thought we were "just not doing something right", we kept trying to identify what we needed to change within ourselves to make it work.

A part of me believes that we are subconsciously seeking them out because we are like a pressure cooker of painful emotions, and we need someone similar to that to take it out on, and it's fair because they will take theirs out on us too.

Assuming this is true, trying to put a stop to the development of this relationship would likely leave you looking for it somewhere else. I believe that there is something that you can learn from this relationship, and unfortunately I can't know what that may be. The good news is, since this is your relationship and yours only, no one can ever tell you that you're wrong. The relationship is yours to have.

This may not be the case for you Bewlayb, so I certainly apologize if this is off track. I hope that something I or another one of the fellas here has said something to bring a bit of clarity to your situation.

Craig

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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