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#199357 - 01/13/08 11:19 PM question about god
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
if god created man ,who created god ? did man create god ? did men create the bible or did it come straight from god? if no one believed would god still exist? seems like without men to believe ,god couldn't exist. but men can exist without god .


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#199359 - 01/13/08 11:33 PM Re: question about god [Re: evanesence]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
I beg to differ...

in the days of Noah, no one believed but him, and he was the only one who lived.

God was not created, for the very definition of a supreme Being requires that He be self-sufficient. He just was...is...and is to come. He created time, so before "the beginning", there was just God.

_________________________
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Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#199396 - 01/14/08 07:59 AM Re: question about god [Re: bp83]
evanesence Offline
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Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
see thats the thing about god ,he just was, is ? that explanation won't work for anything else ,but he just is. for something this important i need more than he just is .


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#199420 - 01/14/08 10:37 AM Re: question about god [Re: evanesence]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
that's funny, because it seems to work for most philosophers and scientists who argue that the universe "just is" and that natural laws came to be "just because" with no reason...how is that any easier to accept?

_________________________
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Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#199451 - 01/14/08 01:27 PM Re: question about god [Re: bp83]
weapher Offline
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Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 60
Loc: Oregon
Of course the concept of God is difficult to understand. We are human and God is spirit. Therefore we try to put the understanding of God into relative terms that are familiar with our understanding. I know there is a lot of information that can try to refute God. But if you are really looking for an answer and are genuinely interested in finding God, then the key word I would give you is FAITH.

Without faith there can be no God in your life. But without faith there can be no evolution or any other belief system either. There is far less scientific proof of evolution than there is of God. Faith is the key component to all that we believe whether it be no God or God. Check out the links below and maybe you will get an answer to your question.

http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/WhoCreatedGod/WhoCreatedGod.html

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c039.html

keep searching

weapher

As far as God being "He just is" and everything can't be explained that way... that's because He created it.

_________________________
Facing the struggle makes you strong.

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#199498 - 01/14/08 09:42 PM Re: question about god [Re: weapher]
evanesence Offline
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Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
thanks for the responses ,searching is really what i'm doing at this time i could go either way you know? it's cool to have people i can voice my questions to with out them feeling like i'm attacking their belief. as for the scientists ,philosophers,and those who wrote the things ,yes i read them ,confused me even more it's hard to understand what's being said ,kind of like the bible .point is i did not pray to them ,i didn't put my faith in science ,or the police to save me. i put it all in god ,in another post people spoke about what god has done for them ,and it was great to hear how god affected their lives ,i read how god brought people together and great friendships grew,how god got someone through an impossible accident sometimes more than once ,please explain to the 10 year old why he wasn't imprtant enough for god to help him , also how does it work ,some people say god can't interfere or won't while others say god saved me ,or showed me the way? i'm not totaly sure why this subject is so important to me ,but maybe it's because i want to believe more than i don't want to ,guess i'm just asking somebody to help me understand ,but if you believe in freewill then god can't have had anything to do with the things described . if i assume that god created man ,and gave him freewill,otherwise we would just be puppets,i been told this many times , yet we are expected to fall down and worship god ,do what his people and the bible tell us to totaly on faith ,then isn't that being a puppet? there is no room for freewill if you follow the bible strictly, is it i gave you freewill, total control and i wont interfere,but if you screw up i'll get you in the end ?is that freewill? last gasp lol if god gave us freewill and he is a spirit not human ,WHY WOULD HE CARE!? why would he care if we believe or not? would he not love us regardless? i mean using freewil is what he wanted isn't it?



Edited by evanesence (01/14/08 10:00 PM)

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#199508 - 01/14/08 10:45 PM Re: question about god [Re: evanesence]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
i can't answer the "explain to the 10 year old..." question. i can't answer why God didn't rescue me at age 5. Or 6. Or later. why He chose the times He did - He knows, i sure don't.

as for free will, i look at it this way. i would MUCH rather my children loved and respected me by their choice, not because i ordered them too. (good thing - ordering them to love me wouldn't do any good anyhoo) to me it makes sense that God would want us to choose Him as well.

why would he care? He does. i can't answer all the why's - i dunno if anyone here on planet earth can. but that's why it's called faith - "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen".

my 2 cents.

m


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#201674 - 01/27/08 12:45 AM Re: question about god [Re: MarkK]
blueshift Offline
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
Not to sound like Spock in "StarTreck", but above all i trust in logic.
Everything in this world i find myself in follows the laws of logic and i have realized that everything my, i hope, logical mind tells me about the Christian concept of God flies in the face of logic.

And when people talk about it having to be accepted on faith, i can only think that this God must be trying to set us up to fail by putting us in a logical universe where logic allows control of our surroundings and blind faith most often just gets us in to trouble, and then requiring us to accept an illogical idea on blind faith!

I'm going to piss someone off here, i just know it, but i can almost hear God and the devil up there together just having a good laugh at us all! Sorry i mean no disrespect, i just have strong feelings on this.

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#201685 - 01/27/08 02:10 AM Re: question about god [Re: blueshift]
Jay Bee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 52
Loc: NY
Honestly, I am not really trying to be flip here or marginalize anyone's strugle with their spirituality but God's only begotten son, Jesus ended up being nailed to a Cross after being savagedly whipped, beaten and spit upon. Job, a devout believer went thru Hell with all types of sufferings and losses and calamities heaped upon him.

I beleive that for some this thing that they call God inspires them to find the Faith within themselves and it is that Faith which pulls then thru the trials and tribulations and personal struggles and tradegies in their lives. I don't see God as being as judgemental as putting ALL folks that presently have no faith in Him in the evil, worthless, couldn't be bothered catergory as much as I see God needing a resevoir of Faith within whomever S/HE works thru.

I believe GOd is omnipotent but He can choose for reasons I will never know to not make this omnipotence absolute. When God said Adam and Eve would surely die for their sin, he could have very well just struck them dead on the spot but instead they lived out their lives to EVENTUALLY die. God doesn't see any of our lives linearly but can see all possibles at once. We however tend to focus on the outcomes of the possibilities that have become in our lives actual realities we have experienced. Only God bears witness to the could of beens we may never know so I have no idea if indeed He did not help me in some way then though certainly thru the long healing process many of us have to face, it feels like none was given.

I honestly do believe Faith has the power to transform(though not always necessarily in the matter we think would be best for us) almost any situation. So sometimes Faith does save the ten year old and sometimes the twenty year old and sometimes the forty year old and a sixty year old right now is probably just beginning to see the transformative power of his faith. Of course we vacillate between what we have suffered and what we have the opportunity to heal but that is just being human, after all.

Some call God, The Father making him among other things the protective loving figure. There is bound to be residual resentment, anger, or confusion towards all, Divine or human who were supposed to fulfill this role with the experiences in our lives. I do not know exactly what takes place in some that allows Faith to seep thru the darkness and shed light on a dim situation but I do know for some, it does happen.


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