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#199069 - 01/11/08 05:38 PM questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
In the last year I fell in love with a man, after 16 years of questioning my orientation I finally was able to say "yes" I love this guy, I just can't connect with a woman the way I connect with this guy. Emotionally I'm in love, intellectually I'm in love, but sexually I'm still triggered by nudity, guy or girl, it just throws me for a loop.

I met a gay guy in our support group and we went and had a beer, it was in the gay area and I was so comfortable and it was nice and great. Felt like home. There was nothing in terms of dating or such, I just went to have a beer with a guy I thought could be a friend. It's become an absolute disaster, constant phone calls, constantly trying to get me to meet him. He gave me a christmas card at our last group meeting, it had a big hunky guy on the front and when you opened it it was same guy with his d**k hanging out!!!!!!???????????. I'm at a sexual assault survivor group and I went home with XXX card, what the fuck!!!.

After much thought and with some advice from another survivor I thought "okay, my boundaries have been walked all over, I need to practice what I've learned, be strong and state my boundaries". So I did, hardest thing I've ever done but I did it. I said to him "nudity triggers me, the thought of sex triggers me, I have no desire to even think about a sexual relationship right now". I then asked him if he understood what I was saying and he said "no". He then asked me if I was "still gay". Holy fucking shit, I've never felt so invalidated in my whole life.

I told him "look, I'm just not interested in sex right now, when I think about men I'm attracted to the connection emotionally and intellectually but I have no desire sexually, and that goes for men or women, do you understand that". His answer was again "no".

So now here I am again thinking, okay, being gay means being sexually attracted to a dick. Apparently if I'm not obsessed with this guys dick then I'm not gay. Apparently my attraction intellectually and emotionally has nothing to do with my orientation. Please please please tell me that this guy is an idiot, tell me this is not what constitutes a gay man. I have no desire to have a relationship with a woman but if I'm not obsessed with a body part then I don't "qualify".

Please tell me what really constitues a gay man IS LOVE.

Ugh

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#199074 - 01/11/08 06:37 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: mogigo]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Yes, love is the key to being gay. I think we all know sex is kind of just sex without that heart connection.

So, this guy doesn't need to understand anything. He just needs to respect your boundaries, right? No XXX cards, etc. It's very, very simple. Jeez, he's just dead insensitive.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#199076 - 01/11/08 06:39 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: mogigo]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Mike, you've got it exactly right. There are many men in my life that I love without any sexual connection at all. Outside of my family, there are very few women. I connect with men, I understand them and I just plain like them more than women. That's what makes me gay.

Your acquaintance is an idiot. An insensitive idiot.

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#199227 - 01/12/08 07:55 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: Lazarus]
Nate Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Ohio
"being gay means being sexually attracted to a dick. Apparently if I'm not obsessed with this guys dick then I'm not gay. Apparently my attraction intellectually and emotionally has nothing to do with my orientation."

being gay is more than liking someone's dick.

as i read your post i have to say i can see where you are coming from. i think sexuality involves those intellectual and emotional connections. the problem i have is still w/ the sexual. for me that's a byproduct of love and attraction - one i'm not ready to experience.

being gay isn't just about sex - that's what i'm try ing to say and that's what i'm hoping the world will see. the type of relationship i want will value emotional and intellectual connection above sexual - it probably should be balanced...anyway - yeah it's not just about sex.

_________________________
"Love the moment. Flowers grow out of dark moments. Therefore, each moment is vital. It affects the whole. Life is a succession of such moments and to live each, is to succeed."

- Corita Kent

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#199233 - 01/12/08 08:53 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: Nate]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 241
Loc: NYC
Hi Mike

I'm going through something very similar to you right now. And, I'm completely confused too.

I came out when I was eighteen. I remembered the abuse when I was nineteen, and found that I couldn't be gay. I felt too ravaged by sex to be anything. I'm twenty-six now. Recently, I've had crushes on men and women, but I met a man on New Years Eve and we've been inseperable since. He's the first man I've slept with more than once since the abuser. I like him. I care about him. He tells me he's falling in love with me, and I might be falling in love with him too. But I'm not sure yet, and I can't repeat those words back to him. They get stuck in my throat.

I notice beautiful women on the train, at work, in the street, and my face reacts with desire. I gaze at them. I admire their physical attributes. I fantasize of marriage and having kids. There's one woman in particular I think about very often.

As in your situation, this new guy wants to see me all the time and calls me all the time. I'm so used to being alone, it's kind of frightening. For now, I've surrendered to him. It feels like a rollercoaster, and I don't know when, or how it will end. Sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it's harrowing.

I haven't told him about the abuse yet. I haven't told him that I, like you, am not a sexual person. Sex means nothing to me. But reading your post, I do have one piece of advice. Just like you and I don't understand how sex can be so important, others, who haven't been abused, can't see why anyone wouldn't want it. It sounds like he was judging you. But you were also judging him. He doesn't think of sex as abuse like we do. He wants to satisfy himself, and satisfy you. If you tell someone, "I'm not sexually attracted to you," they are likely to feel hurt: man, or woman. Still, I know what you mean. It's just, not everyone would.

Gay men can love each other. It isn't only about sex. I am special to him, and he is special to me. If I wasn't sleeping with him, and we were both straight, we would probably be close friends. We had an instant rapport, and everyone around us disappears when we are together. That said, I don't know if I'll be gay forever either. And, I don't know if my scars and my doubts will ruin this.


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#199415 - 01/14/08 10:10 AM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: mogigo]
rcm Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 156
Loc: Boston, MA
You are correct, loving a man goes way beyond his dick.
In fact, I'd say that if you can see beyond a man's dick and look at his character, personality, charm, insecurities and love that WOW you are so far beyond the usual superficiality and shalowness of the gay world.
I don' tthink there's anything wrong with gay men that love dick as long as they can go beyond that when appropriate.
Just my opinion if it helps.

_________________________
______________________________________________
Prince Zuko: [looking at a map] How am I going to find the Avatar? He is clearly a master of evasive maneuvering.
Sokka: [cut to him, looking at the same map] You have no idea where you're going, do you?

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#199424 - 01/14/08 11:05 AM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out *DELETED* [Re: mogigo]
awakening Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 342
Post deleted by awakening


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#199430 - 01/14/08 11:57 AM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: awakening]
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
I'll just have to reiterate "This guy is an idiot!"

You have made yourself very clear, yet he refused to understand your position and honor your boundaries. You are in a sexual assault survivors group and this guy is emotionally assaulting you. Please keep your boundaries and restate them as needed and if he will not honor them, is there someone in charge of the group that could do something?

I'm gay. I'm in a loving relationship for almost four years now. It's not about someone having a dick or not. Love is about how two people connect emotionally and physically, but the emotion comes first. Anyone can have sex, love is something different. It's very difficult to overcome the linking of sex and the abuse.

Take good care of yourself,

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#199470 - 01/14/08 05:53 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: awakening]
Patrick Walsh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 22
Loc: PA
AWakening,

It is possible to have intimace with another man without sex. Sometimes feeling very close can feel "erotic" and it can be OK. Mostly it depends on the two men. I"m straight and belong to a Men's support group, and I am awed at the sharing and intimacy. ALL of these men feel shame, and a certain disconnect from "other men", and a struggle to be the best "man" they want to be. And so far to the best of my knowledge, they have not been sexaully abused.

I think I am being accepted as someone who's willing to talk. To share. As someone who cares. More acceptance as a person than a man. I'm not a "man's man", but I am a person. And it seems to be working. I feel better each time I go.

That's my two cents

Pat

_________________________
I'm a good person. I'm a good man. I'm a postive force and I will not be shamed.

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#204433 - 02/09/08 08:53 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: Patrick Walsh]
dave999 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Canada
I have been trying to sort out whether or not I am gay, bi or hetero - I was abused by a female when I was a child and I have repressed it for my whole life - pretending it idi not happen - the whole issue was brought to light by my having very strong erotic urges to be with a male - I acted on these and subsequently got it touch with the abuse - I find that I am not physically attracted to men when I see them on the street - yet in fantasy and being with them I am attracted to their penis - when I have been with men - the most memorable times were the most intimate ones - the sex was not - I find it much easier to relax with men - yet I do not have close male friends - I am married and my sexual experiences with my wife have always emphasized the physical - without intimacy - I am so confused - certainly from the young age I was attracted to girls and did not have any experiences with men - now I have these urges to be with a male - is this me trying to connect with the male side of my being or is it me trying to negate my sexual orientation - so I have similar issues and am trying to sort my way through it all - why am I so strongly attracted to the male? Am I struggling to accept my sexuality? my sexual orientation or am I trying to embrace the male side of my being - you are not alone - take care, Dave


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#204434 - 02/09/08 08:54 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: Patrick Walsh]
dave999 Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Canada
I have been trying to sort out whether or not I am gay, bi or hetero - I was abused by a female when I was a child and I have repressed it for my whole life - pretending it idi not happen - the whole issue was brought to light by my having very strong erotic urges to be with a male - I acted on these and subsequently got it touch with the abuse - I find that I am not physically attracted to men when I see them on the street - yet in fantasy and being with them I am attracted to their penis - when I have been with men - the most memorable times were the most intimate ones - the sex was not - I find it much easier to relax with men - yet I do not have close male friends - I am married and my sexual experiences with my wife have always emphasized the physical - without intimacy - I am so confused - certainly from the young age I was attracted to girls and did not have any experiences with men - now I have these urges to be with a male - is this me trying to connect with the male side of my being or is it me trying to negate my sexual orientation - so I have similar issues and am trying to sort my way through it all - why am I so strongly attracted to the male? Am I struggling to accept my sexuality? my sexual orientation or am I trying to embrace the male side of my being - you are not alone - take care, Dave


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#204597 - 02/10/08 04:49 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: dave999]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
N0 Dave, you're not alone here. I think there is a distinct possibility that you ARE a gay man married to a woman. I was, for 21 years. Most of that time, I considered myself Bi, and even saw a therapist about it (her conclusion was that there is no such thing as a BiSexual person. Obviously we disagree). I can see the physical beauty in both male and female forms, and sex with both is pleasurable. I can relate to my ex-wife, but very few other women. I feel more comfortable (sexually and intimately) with certain types of men than almost any woman. I figure that makes me gay.

I don't think being gay or str8 has much to do with sex. I think it mostly has to do with whom we are intimate. Acting gay or str8 IS a choice.

I wish you well on your journey and hope you find your happiness.

Ric

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#204712 - 02/11/08 12:07 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: mogigo]
TNuss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Del-A-Ware???
Over this past weekend I went to see a national traveling production of RENT. LOVED IT! But that isn't the reason for my reply here today. While sitting there waiting for the show to begin, I start thinking about everyone here and some of the stuff in this thread and the steroetypes placed on men that enjoy broadway shows/ showtunes. And the statement that people choice to be gay or straight.
I can only speak for myself, this is what I came up with, but I think it may be true for maybe people. I believe people are born either gay/bi or striaght, but for whatever reason they choice to live a different lifestyle. As I have done, I feel I born gay, but because I was so afraid of being ousted when I younger I choose to live a straight lifestyle. I have two beautiful girls to show for making that choice. Now I long to be out and live a gay lifestyle, but I'm to afraid to hurt all those around me because of my lies.
I have figured it out, it's just easier to keep lying then to hurt those closest to me, most of all my girls. At some, when I am stronger, I will be able to be honest with them.
Sorry for rambling, I just needed to let it out!!! thank you!!!

_________________________
All my best!!!

In harmony,
Troy
________________________________________________________
I hug myself daily until the day I find the embrace that completes me.

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#204757 - 02/11/08 06:51 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: TNuss]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Troy, why do you think your girls, your family and all those people around you will be hurt? I have teenage twins and they love me AND their other Dad, and their Mom. My family loves me, my friends love me and my clients love me.

It's time to be who you really are.

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#327752 - 04/08/10 05:44 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it ou [Re: Bewlayb1]
Jamie45 Offline


Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 7
I signed up for ms today, and found your post to be insightful. Hopefully, you are still happy and dating the guy described. I am in a relationship, and was not sexually active for many years before I met him. I know I am in love with him, but have one issue. He often likes to describe his prior sex life and identify the guys he was with at the time. Some have remained friends. I have asked him not to share this information with me, but occasionally, he speaks before he thinks. I feel betrayed when I hear it, and expereiene feelings of sadness and anxiety, which were part of my abuse. Any suggestions on how to address the issue?


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#327835 - 04/09/10 10:54 AM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: dave999]
Jamie45 Offline


Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 7
Sex does not necessarily equate to intimacy. We all have the capacity, like animals, to engage in physical acts of pleasure. If this guy lacks the ability to comprehend that intimacy requires knowing another person and being known, you may find it difficult to be in relationship, regardless of how it is defined. The obsession with sex, multiple partners, porn, and graphic nudity is lost on me. Perhaps my abuse will not allow me to embrace it, but I would like to also believe that objectifying another human being for your own pleasure is morally bankrupt. I am struggling with my current relationship and what it means to maintain intimacy. What I have found is that my bf's retelling of his past sexual history and interest in porn substantially undermines the relationship. Knowing that much about another person is only helpful if there is a health issue. I applaud you for setting your boundaries and demanding respect. You will be better prepared than most if you ever decide to pursue a relationship and become sexual. Regardless of what you do, I would continue on my path to recovery, and refuse to allow this guy to present barriers. Your life's happiness is at stake. Best, Jamie


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#328228 - 04/13/10 03:04 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: dave999]
Aberrant30 Offline


Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 139
Loc: I live on the Emerald Coast, F...
i feel for you and your situation, but I must admit, sex and being a gay mael go hand in hand. There seems to be a time, in our young lives where it seems like cock is all there is. But let me tell you, thoes of us with substanice, thoes of us with styel and class, thoes of us who know what it's like to be loved in our life. Where the ones that quickly grow out of that phaes, and no matter what any otehr gay person tells me, it's a phaes. Your person that you met at a sexual abues..councling. Maybe stuck in this phaes, and there are many gay men that NEVER will get out of this phaes. That's the sadest part of it, and it goes for women to, YES GALS thre are tones of guys out there, that live for the thrill of the hunt to, and that's what it is for them, the conquest. Pittiful littel boy games. I admit..the crhistmas card would be funny, BUT DUED AT A SEXUAL ABUESS COUNICELING GROUP, FUCKING BAD TAEST!
love tom smile

_________________________
"The beginning of eternity
The end of time and space
The beginning of every end,
And the end of every place."
Hint: It's in front of you right now.
(Formerly known as Aberrant30

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#328259 - 04/13/10 07:01 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it ou [Re: mogigo]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 725
Loc: United States
Mogigo,

I need to tell you something I realized. I wasn't aware of sex much until I was in my later teens. I didn't have sex with a woman until I was 21 and with a man some years after that.

Now having worked through my sexuality to tease it apart from my abuse and identify as gay even though I think I have the freedom to be whatever I want.

Looking back to my childhood I had a big "Aha!" moment. I realized that before I knew what sex was, before I knew about puberty, I was feeling a strong emotional attraction to other boys my age. I can think of two or three in particular. It's the emotional attraction to men, that crush when we're younger and love when we're older that tells me who I am. Sex is just a part of that, not the other way around.

Don't feel compelled to live by anyone else's standards or rules but yours.

-efm

_________________________

Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

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#328320 - 04/14/10 03:17 AM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it ou [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
Charlie24 Offline


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
Mark,

you got some great points in your post. I like what you said about having crushes, guys you liked. I think that is part of my whole problem, when I think back to it I had crushes on guys. I think I had crushes but what if I'm not fucking sure. What if it was a start of fantasizing to be someone else, to not be me. To be someone I considered cool. The last therapist I saw on my college campus was convinced I was gay and said the coming out process takes time, hinting that it could be several years before I realized I was gay. I'm so fucking sick of other people trying to decide this shit for me. It's none of their fucking business. I hate still feeling confused on this whole subject. Does it scare the shit out of me. Hell yeah. I'm so fucking scared of myself. That is the worst thing man. Typing this out and really seeing it outside my head, jeez this is a big step for me. Now comes the hard part for me, actually getting out there and exploring my sexuality. I've learned to love my fear and loneliness. Learned to embrace it and be with it on a Friday night.

What if I never figure this shit out for myself. What if enjoy the company of other people, both sexes, without it being sexual, just that company and potential friendship. That is where I want to be in my life, but I'm almost 26 and I've never had a relationship. I guess I really wanna know my sexuality, I want answers on where to go from here so I feel like I can move forward with my life.

I want to know how you guys found answers, how you figured yourself out. I know you say Mark that you had Aha moments, but what I never have those moments. It all gets to be too much and I know I sound like a fucking broken record but that scares me I will never figure myself out, my life out.

Charlie.


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#338534 - 08/18/10 02:14 AM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it ou [Re: Charlie24]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
After 21 years of not being sure what to do, the only advice I have is.........It doesn't matter if you are scared, it doesn't matter if the sky fairy is going to be upset with you, it doesn't matter what the people closest to you think. What matters is when your all alone, thinking nobody understands you.....except him, the MAN you are in love with!!!!.

All the other sad, pathetic, excuses, people...can enjoy their misory.....go and TAKE...your happiness!!!!


Take it and live it....or you can accept that you are not gay and just confused (maybe you are) This can happen, I think. But...God damn...no fucking mindless, loser, fucking religion is going to tell me how I feel smile

Stay strong
Mike



Edited by mogigo (08/18/10 02:16 AM)
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#339051 - 08/26/10 06:36 PM Re: questioning again, I thought I'd figured it out [Re: mogigo]
livewell Offline


Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Florida
Hi, there is nothing wrong with you ! This guy does not seem to be the right person for you . First of all he does not seem to understand you . And understanding each other is the basis of a relantionship .


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