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#199224 - 01/12/08 07:23 PM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: theatrekid]
Lou Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 100
I know in AA they call it the God of "your" understanding. A lot of people in program do not believe in God, but they have come to believe that a power greater than themselves can restore them to sanity, I think that God could be anything that you choose for yourself. I have spoken to a lot of program people who are recovering and they know that they could not do it as by themselves, they screwed it up, but when they turned it over to their higher power....things got better.


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#199225 - 01/12/08 07:23 PM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: theatrekid]
Lou Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 100





Edited by Lou (01/12/08 07:24 PM)

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#199229 - 01/12/08 08:05 PM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: theatrekid]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
Chris, no disprespect taken, thank you.
I see no flaw in your hypothesis. There is no doubt that my belief (which in me seems more like knowledge)was tied to my emotions and solidified by the intensity of the pain.
What wonderful life forms we are that we can even sense when we have a need, in this case to be comforted, and do it in an objective manner to affect our subjective need. But you know , I remember the same ability trying to destroy me, I had the implanted thoughts and feelings that I deserved not-so-good things happening to me,and I began to satisfy that expectation, which apparently is not uncommon in our group.
I have been party to a movement of experiences that took me from a lonely, emotionally painful, isolated boys' life to a mostly happy healthy man and I have had what has felt like several external nudges along the way. I feel my emotions are better stroked if I show gratitude to an "extra mundane point of reference" as Jung so aptly named it in "The undiscovered self"
Good topic Chris, Thank you

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#199230 - 01/12/08 08:21 PM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: dancr6]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
i found truly good and kind people ,here as a matter of fact that helped me believe that there is good as well as bad in this world. before i never saw any good at all.


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#199240 - 01/12/08 09:07 PM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: evanesence]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hi TK,
I don't have a religion but I have had some very powerful experiences that I can not explain. I believe that there is something but just what that is i have no idea. I have faith in my ability to recover from my past and that has given me hope.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m__m__
|| || || || || || |

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#199283 - 01/13/08 09:47 AM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: GateKPR4]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
To believe or not to believe
Is that the question?
Whether it is nobler in the mind to accept or deny? 
Or
If its even important at all

We grow and decay in and endless display
of ignorance and brilliance combined
We love and hate
Give and take

Do we exist for no reason
Or a purpose unknown
Or are we just along for the ride

Thinking we are important above everything else
should we war over something that is only settled in an individual mind
or should we accept that we are all falling short of the answer
and concentrate on supporting each other rising from our pain.

If there is or if there is not, I love my fellow survivors
I want their confusion to subside
and the clarity of our human equality to be illuminated.

The insight flashes that I have had over the years I attribute to God
you might attribute it to a chemical shift in the brain
I think the main focus is to care and share
the healing thoughts brought about from our moments of insight
And listen to those of our fellow survivors
without judging them by whether or not they are accompanied by a belief in God
I have a feeling of concern for you all and Ill call that Love.
I have a feeling of a universal movement towards love and I call that God.

Regardless of what you call it I offer my love.
I believe that with or without a belief in God we can redirect
the outcome of this human condition
to which we have all fallen prey.

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#199335 - 01/13/08 07:20 PM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: dancr6]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
Cris, I'm sorry if I took the conversation from your original request. I hope people will respond, I'm sure it's an important topic. And I am curious myself how an athiest deals with day to day trials and tribulations. At the time in my life when I considered myself an athiest none of lifes big ones had yet to drop on me. I honestly don't know how I would have handled it.

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

Top
#199339 - 01/13/08 08:45 PM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: dancr6]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
(Posted some of this in a PM -- taking the plunge to go public. While I find it relatively easy to be out as a gay man, coming out as an agnostic is much much more frightening.)

Here's my take, as a non-believer.

If you really don't believe in God...if the world just happened, and there's no reason it needed to happen, no cosmic hand pulling the strings...everything becomes much more miraclous. Without worrying about why a perfect being created an imperfect world, you can really be in awe of the world as it is. Isn't it amazing that some particles of matter, four fundamental forces, lots of dark matter and maybe dark energy, got together, and now I'm sipping my coffee typing this?

I don't know if people would agree with me, but it makes everything seem much more powerful and special. I didn't exist before I was born-I won't exist after I die--I'm a singular, unrepeatable event in space and time. I'm not part of a great plan, but I can make my own plans. I have a heart, intelligence, love, and they're not just pale reflections of some heavenly force...I think we're all there is, and we're beautiful. And there's no reason at all that we had to be here, so I celebrate the fact that we are.

And even if I'm in pain, or feeling alone, I can still step back and think about how strange and wonderful it is that a bunch of atoms can be alive and feel alone.




Edited by MemoryVault (01/13/08 08:55 PM)

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#199364 - 01/14/08 12:06 AM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: MemoryVault]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
Dan did you write that poem it was good.

MemoryVault

I think that was exactly what i was looking for in this post.Great words thanks so much for posting it publicly. I couldnt agree more with you.

You shouldnt have to worry about speaking your mind as a non-believer. thanks for sharing.

,Chris


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#199379 - 01/14/08 01:46 AM Re: Questions on hope for the non believer. [Re: MemoryVault]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
Originally Posted By: MemoryVault
(Posted some of this in a PM -- taking the plunge to go public. While I find it relatively easy to be out as a gay man, coming out as an agnostic is much much more frightening.)

Here's my take, as a non-believer.

If you really don't believe in God...if the world just happened, and there's no reason it needed to happen, no cosmic hand pulling the strings...everything becomes much more miraclous. Without worrying about why a perfect being created an imperfect world, you can really be in awe of the world as it is. Isn't it amazing that some particles of matter, four fundamental forces, lots of dark matter and maybe dark energy, got together, and now I'm sipping my coffee typing this?

I don't know if people would agree with me, but it makes everything seem much more powerful and special. I didn't exist before I was born-I won't exist after I die--I'm a singular, unrepeatable event in space and time. I'm not part of a great plan, but I can make my own plans. I have a heart, intelligence, love, and they're not just pale reflections of some heavenly force...I think we're all there is, and we're beautiful. And there's no reason at all that we had to be here, so I celebrate the fact that we are.

And even if I'm in pain, or feeling alone, I can still step back and think about how strange and wonderful it is that a bunch of atoms can be alive and feel alone.


yeah, that is a great miracle...now prove it

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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