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#198610 - 01/08/08 10:45 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: MarkK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Man, can't you be thankful for both...argh. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

I think God works WITHIN science. Why it's more logical to some that he just made everything with the shake of his nose, like in "I Dream of Genie," instead of actually working through the laws of nature is beyond me?

They actually minimize God to magical elf status -- but somehow *we're* (us "sinners") the heretics. lol :p

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Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#198620 - 01/08/08 11:16 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: AndyJB2005]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Andy, i'm sorry - i didn't mean to say i'm not thankful for science - because i am. i am thankful for people who study medicine as well. anyone who works for the enrichment of life, the expansion of our knowledge - i think all of those are great things.

i believe when God created - He created the "laws of nature". My opinion - for ME - to say God works through the laws of nature sounds TO ME like saying God is limited by those laws. I believe the laws of nature/physics/etc exist because of His wisdom.

i think i'm getting "God works only through the laws of nature" or "God has to stick within the laws of nature" - in which case i'm putting the word "only" into what you are saying - and that is wrong of me. so if i'm misunderstanding, i apologize.

as for "Why does it have to be all or nothing?" ... one of the issues i'm dealing with now is my "black or white" philosophy on life. part of the "residue" of my abuse i guess - but (again, for me) everything IS black or white, wrong or right, good or bad - there is no grey.

Again, i apologize if i have misread or misinterpreted anything anyone has said here.

M


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#198822 - 01/09/08 05:53 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: MarkK]
evanesence Offline
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Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
can any one give me an example of something god has done for you? if you say he gave me life ,that was your parents and biology


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#198825 - 01/09/08 06:18 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: evanesence]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11046
Loc: Denver, CO
Evanesence,

Back in 2004, I prayed to God that a certain person here in town would become my friend. I saw great value in becoming friends with this man - someone who has walked in my shoes. God granted this. He and I have taken road trips together, hikes together, had long talks about lots of things until our ears fell off. We've made several recordings together. It's been good.

Andy

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#198847 - 01/09/08 08:41 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: FormerTexan]
evanesence Offline
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Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
thanks ,can i ask how god brought you together?


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#198849 - 01/09/08 08:46 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: evanesence]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11046
Loc: Denver, CO
We met at a local support org, which is God-centered. I started going there in Oct of 03. The following month saw the end of a friendship with someone else. But looking back, it was a pretty unhealthy friendship. I was pretty sad about it for a month or so, hit a low in December. In January, I was joining everyone at group for chow afterwards. He and I had a chance to talk in depth, and the things he shared were a lot like what I went through. I was a mess of tears when we were done talking because I related so much to what he was saying. It was deep prayer for the next week to see if God would draw us together as friends. I finally found a buddy!

A

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List of things ain't nobody got time for:

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If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#198897 - 01/10/08 08:41 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: evanesence]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: evanesence
can any one give me an example of something god has done for you?

wow - where to start. i guess the one that always sticks in my mind - was about 25 years ago, i was depressed beyond anything i've ever experienced before or since. i worked graveyard at a hotel - one morning on my way home i was done. i was screaming at God as i drove and at one point said "I'm thru God - you can kill me now cuz I don't care anymore." i was asleep instantly.

i woke up just as the car was about to run head-on into an iron post and concrete bridge embankment - the bridge went over a wide creek. i remember crying out "Lord save me!" as i jerked the steering wheel. The car spun circles across the bridge and slid into the sandy shoulder on the other side. It tipped up, almost completely over, into a drainage ditch full of water, but slammed back down onto the wheels. For weeks after i would drive past that point and see the skid marks in that circular pattern down the center of the road across that bridge.

i am alive today because of God "doing for me". i could also go on for hours - but i've already taken up too much time.

m


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#198898 - 01/10/08 08:52 AM Re: How can there be a God [Re: MarkK]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
thank you both for responding i'm glad that you can see how god worked in your life ,maybe i just need to look a little closer to see if he has affected my life in any positive ways ,thanks


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#198926 - 01/10/08 03:16 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: evanesence]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
I feel the need to point out an inconsistency that people seem to often overlook;

Andy and Mark both give examples where they feel God intervened on their behalf, or 'answered their prayers'. I do not understand why any omnipotent being would answer such selfish and inconsequential prayers as "help me find a friend" or "I'm sorry I doubted you, please don't kill me," and not answer the prayers of innocent children being savagely abused. Not to mention all the other tragedies and atrocities that happen on a daily basis. Even Huckabee attributed his good fortune in the Iowa Caususes to God.

How can you thank God for your good fortune and not blame him for the bad?

Personally, I don't believe in God, but even if I did I wouldn't be so presumptious as to assume that he has the least bit of interest in me or my situation, one way or the other. As far as I'm concerned there are only two factors that influence the universe; the 'laws' of physics and pure coincidence.

Respectfully submitted,

Lazarus

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"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#198927 - 01/10/08 03:22 PM Re: How can there be a God [Re: Lazarus]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11046
Loc: Denver, CO
Lazarus,

If God had no interest in any of His people, then the death of His Son was for no purpose.

Ever read the Book of Job?

Andy

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List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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