May I ask what makes this so important to you? It sounds to me like your wife is trying to shame you into believing somethign you don't.

For me, life began to vastly improve once I came to the realization that there is no God.

Bryan

i don't base my opinion on science ,i base it on having my eyes open ,look around ,and it's way worse than just a few bad apples,religion is being shown for what it is ,a way to control people ,first and foremost,not only are people dying in wars over religion ,they are FUCKING DESTROYING THE CHILDREN! where are the studies that should show that glergy as a group account for a huge number of molestation cases? when the shepards are killing the sheep it's time to get out of the flock.don't these people claim to be doing gods work?explain that please? is god totaly powerless? why worship him if he can't do anything ? in my life there has been no reason to believe in god but as a child i did believe i hung onto that belief as long as i could ,but faith didn't stop the punches ,or the sex ,in fact it made it worse of course i blammed myself for god not helping me .i won't spend one more minute waiting for god to show up. take us for example survivors ,how many blind sheep out there go to sleep every night thinking i have faith that things like what happened to us just don't happen. they have faith that god won't let terrible things happen, till it's their kid . many people don't really believe that what priests have done to kids is true ,blinded by the light maybe?

I don't hold the actions of those who are prone to abuse their power against an entire belief system. MOST of the people who I know who are Christians are good people. However, I have an awefully difficult time when I hear someone say something like "I am a non believer and don't have christian values". Excuse me, but what the heck is a "Christian value"?

In my eyes, morality and religion are not related in any way, shape, or form.

Bryan

The golden rule is a Christian value Bryan. Think of Jesus as a man and nothing else, he had great idea's. I don't see morality as religious either, I see them as man made and that man happened to call his values Christian. Some people also call an eye for an eye morality, something I know you don't believe in. I think you just might be upset because people actually need a prize for acting moral Bryan. And I agree with you but take anything good from everything you can. I don't follow Christianity but I do take what I can from it, the same as any idea.

Our thinking didn't just appear Bryan. The difference is evolving as the human race evolves.

Mike

The golden rule just may be a Christian value, but I take offense when Christians claim exclusive rights to that rule.

And I do think that the golden rule did just appear. Our primary goal as a species is in the perpetuation of the human race. These rules that Christianity tries to claim exclusive rights to are the result of society becoming civilized, not by some guy claiming to be the Son of God. But the most convincing evidence I have of this is the fact that I learned my morality by separating from the Catholic Church. The Christianity I was taught as a child is nothing compared to the morality I learned by going my own way.

Therefore, since I was able to learn the golden rule (something I don't necessarily live by, but I do try) without any affiliation with Christianity whatsoever, I have come to the conclusion that Christianity had absolutely nothing to do with creating the golden rule.

Bryan

Bryan,

"And I do think that the golden rule did just appear."

I couldn't disagree more. Morals don't just appear. Someone has to come up with them. And to suggest man alone can come up with any moral virtue is preposterous to me. We are born into this world at our most selfish frame of mind. It takes parents/others to teach us not to be selfish. That learning starts the moment we are born.

Whoever the first cognitive person was, that had to start somewhere. If not God, then whom? A selfish imperfect human?

I have seen the love a mother cat gives to her kittens the instant they are born. The kittens are nurtured until they are old enough to wander out of the litter on their own.

I have seen the way a mother bird chews up its food to feed its baby birds.

I have seen the way dolphins, monkeys, dogs, and kangaroos are kind to their young. The young are nurtured, and they are taught the ways of life. And in these lives, there are rules that are followed that contribute to the perpetuation of the species.

To me, it is preposterous to think that mankind, the most intelligent of all of the creatures on earth, would be any different.

No, children are born innocent. It is unhealthy adults who corrupt them.

Bryan

morals ?from our parents?

Guys,

This is not the unmoderated forum. You may post your opinions so long as your postings address the question or subject specifically raised by the original person who posted in the thread, but in so doing you may not denigrate the faith and opinions of others in this forum. Posts which do not follow this criteria are subject to editing or removal.

Please remember to use respect and kindness when discussing these sometimes volatile issues in this forum.


Thanks,

The MS Moderator Team

Evanesence,

My parents have their faults yes, but they did teach me "some" good.