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#198282 - 01/06/08 06:39 PM Re: Jesus Christ [Re: Danbuff]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
You are arguing over the Catholic faith not the Catholic church, two very different things.

One other thing you point out is that the abuse by less than 1% of priests is not the sum of the church, you are right the sum of the church is the cover up that insued after. Again take what I say as a statement toward the church not the faith. You would never have to defend the faith to me.

Mike

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#198287 - 01/06/08 07:00 PM Re: Jesus Christ [Re: Danbuff]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Dan,

I agree with you completely. The positive effects that not only the Catholic Church but Christianity as a whole far outweigh the notoriously sensationalized bad apples. There are bad people in every group. But the good works and decent people that characterize Christianity in general and the Catholic Church in particular are a significantly positive aspect of our society. Personally, even though I am an athiest, I would rather live in a world where Christian teachings exist than one where it is missing. Your point is well taken.

I had never intended this thread to be an attack on either Christ or any Christian church.

That being said, I have to add that I don't think it is a fair characterization that homosexuality is a sin, any more than it is to say that Christianity and Catholicism are corrupt. I don't deny your defense. I hope more people would not deny mine. I'm sorry I digress; that is a topic in another thread.

This is a Forum for discussing issues specifically relating to abuse survivors who are gay. This topic has moved from sexuality to spirituality, and therefore should probably be moved to the appropriate forum. Andy, are you listening?

Respectfully submitted,

Lazarus

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#198289 - 01/06/08 07:05 PM Re: Jesus Christ [Re: mogigo]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Mike, my statements seem pretty clear about both the institution and faith. I will quote a person I spoke with today after church. "Dan Berrigan(a famous anti-war priest in the 60's) who said, "the Church is a whore and I hate her, the Church is my mother and I love her." All of us who call ourselves Catholics, have many feelings, both good and bad, about the Church, including me. However, I find those with the most anger at the Church, are those that have other issues, i.e., sexual abuse. The Church, an authority figure, is also father-mother figure. Unresolved or conflictual issues with parents, abuse, or just plain bad parenting, often leads to such feelings".

Mike, I am not arguing . I am pointing out that the church is far more in sum than of it's parts. I hope we can have disagreements on points and continue to support and respect each other in the process. This is a place of learning and healing and I want to see both. Unfortunately the church is an easy target and understandably so. However, I am just trying to look at the whole picture.
Peace,
Dan

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#198290 - 01/06/08 07:07 PM Re: Jesus Christ [Re: Lazarus]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Laz,
You are absolutely correct in your points.And yes perhaps moved to spirituality "aint" such a bad idea.
Peace to all,
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#198301 - 01/06/08 08:19 PM Re: Jesus Christ [Re: Danbuff]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Of course we can support and respect each other Dan, I'm with you 100% on the teachings of Christianity. I think my over all point was that the church makes decision sometimes with more regard to itself than it's teachings. ie: moving abusive priests around rather than dumping them. I have never questioned the teachings themselves just the sometimes questionable leadership. Those poor decision were made by the Father/Mother (or maybe big brother) types in the church and have nothing to do with the faith but everything to do with an organization. I think almost 100% of Catholics if asked what to do about abusing priests would never come up with the answer to switch them to another area. All leadership organizations need to be questioned, after all they are just men.

I'm going to stop now, I hope you'll reply if you have any words Dan, I will always love to hear them. But I think Laz is right I'll wait to answer anything until it's moved to correct section.

Oh, and I have no anger over the church, just an opinion.

Respectfully and enjoying the discussion
Mike



Edited by mogigo (01/06/08 08:23 PM)
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