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#19742 - 07/23/05 03:14 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
All the young guys have issued prosecution against their perps.

One guy did it just yesterday, and it must have been a terrifying experience.

I hope they are all believed, there is a lot of tragedy in each of these cases, because a lot of other hurt gets lashed onto the perps own family.

They have to be purged though, in case they have access to do it again,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#19743 - 07/23/05 03:19 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jasper,

That is something I think about all the time. It just grieves me beyond words to think how many other kids were hurt because I did not or could not speak up in 1963. My abuser lived on for another 31 years, and I know for certain of one other boy in my Scout troop who was abused by him - we have spoken on the phone about this and he was as cruelly brutalized as I was. So how many others? 2, 5, 10, 20, 100....?

I would not want to lay any kind of guilt trip on the young guys here. We do have to remember that the attitude of the older adults toward this includes a ton of emotional baggage: we would just love to see the teens do what we could not do. But that said, yes, I wonder if they have anything they can tell us.

Brandon, Charlie, Desvelar, GuitarGuy, Kevin, Nyjah, Puppy (and the others who are around): what are your thoughts on this? Don't feel you have to justify or defend anything, but it would be good to hear from you on this if you feel you can talk about it.

I think I know one thing that is going to come out of any discussion. The structure we have now for dealing with this kind of thing isn't "teen-friendly". And I bet any of the boys or young men with us here is looking at the option of prosecution with very sceptical eyes after the fiasco of the Michael Jackson case.

So again: Brandon, Charlie, Desvelar, GuitarGuy, Kevin, Nyjah, Puppy (and the others): Do you think it is a good idea to try to prosecute your abusers, or does it look like a bad deal from the very beginning? Tell us what you think.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19746 - 07/23/05 03:49 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Jasper,

I feel like I understand where you are coming from.

But I think that demanding that others take specific actions that might or might not be helpful to their specific situations might not be helpful.

I would encourage you and others to consider perhaps if we are encouraging todays young people to pursue specific courses of action as a way of making up for our own perceived lack of initiative when we were younger.

If you can see the possiblity of that happening, then I'm sure you will agree that it is unfair to ask this generation to take on and carry our baggage. They have their own to deal with and do need encouragement with that, whatever that may be.

I feel certain, from what I know of you, that your heart is in the right place. But placing such a load on the shoulders of anyone, young or old, is not a good way to deal with our own unfulfilled desires.

I certainly hope this doesn't sound like an admonishment or that I am chastising anyone. These feelings of wanting to help others are wonderful and represents the best of human nature.

Still none of us like to be told what we should be doing, particularly when we are doing the very best we can.

It may be that prosecution is not the 'next right thing' for some people to do. Maybe learning to love themselves and forgive themselves is what they should be doing. Maybe that's what all of us need to be doing.

There are many people in this world concerned with prosecuting sexual predators. Many professionals work full time at doing this.

There is only one of each of us to work on the healing inside of ourselves that must be done. No one else can do this work. We are the only ones, who, with help, can begin the difficult work of recovering from the effects of sexual abuse.

As I progress in my recovery, and sometimes it seems like pitiful progress, I then have something of real value to offer to other survivors--hope.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for prosecuting perpetrators of sexual abuse. But I don't imagine that it is the primary goal of the survivor of sexual abuse. It is, in my opinion, once again, the obsession with the predator taking precedence over the real, desperate need that each survivor has to learn to love, accept and heal himself.

Yes, encourage those who are at the 'prosecuting' stage of their recovery to continue with that course of action if that is what feels right for them.

But let's not give anyone the impression that our recovery and our healing is in ANY way dependent upon what may or may not happen to the perpetrator.

That way lies despair and madness, because we are once again giving power to the sexual abuser.

There is another dimension to this discussion that has to do with the dynamics of the relationship between older men and younger survivors; but I'll save that for later.

Jasper, your heart seems to be as big as Texas, and your enthusiasm is contagious.

Thanks for being such an active and loving member of the Male Survivor DB.

Regards,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#19748 - 07/23/05 04:26 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Wow! Look what has happened to this thread in less than an hour.

Jasper, there was nothing wrong with your thoughts on this issue, and I do hope some of the younger guys will join in.

I had some thoughts on your comments about poetry Jasper, but I will put that in a different thread.

Can I stress, just generally speaking and not aiming at anyone in particular, that this cannot turn into an argument? If we ask the boys to speak up, they have to know in advance that their feelings will not be invalidated or their sentiments raked over and queried. I think we all remember what happened a month ago when the boys were asked what they thought on an important issue, and then got abused, humiliated and shot down one by one.

What we need to do is listen and understand, not tell them to do what we, for whatever good reasons, didn't do however many years ago. This really does need to be about hugs all around (idea from Jasper of course) \:\) .

All the best,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19750 - 07/23/05 05:09 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
demonboi Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 228
Loc: East Coast


_________________________
Every corner, every city
There's a place where life's a little easy
Little Hennessy, laid back and cool
Every hour, cause it's all good
Leave all the stress from the world outside
Every wrong done will be alright
Nothin but peace, love
And street passion, every ghetto needs a thug mansion

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#19751 - 07/23/05 05:42 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
desvelar Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 55
Loc: The Wired
Hey all it Desvelar
I personally do not want to prosecute I am to scared and my parents would find out and I dont know
I dont want to think about it much I mean I would love to see my perp go to jail but I could handle it. It would probably kill whats left on the inside of me which is pretty much empty. Also that legal system area thing would help. I will add more4 later I just cant write anymore for now its to hard becuase to many memories are coming up.


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#19752 - 07/23/05 07:18 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
***Could prove TRIGGERING*******************

Hi

It effects different people in lots of different ways. The thought once terrified me, but it came to the point of discloser because it was either that, go insane or try to commit su*c*de for the fourth time. I am four and a half years from my disclosing, two of my perps were convicted and one served only half his sentance the other got a 250 fine. A third abuser is now in custody awaiting committal for trial (which will happen next week). Only you and you alone can choose but make sure you are aware of ALL the possible pitfalls, I never got to give evidence in the two trials although I was called (and was the whistle blower to these perps activities) and that was a big disappointment as I wanted to tell the world what these two (three/four) perps had done to me, but that is typical of our criminal justice system here in the UK. I'm still waiting to tell the world.

I disclosed and prosecuted as I had knowhere else to run to as I had run out of places to hide. I had to face it full on and four and a bit years down the line I'm sure glad I did.

I have done some rough calculations for one of my perps when he was ab*sing me he would have at least three boys visit him (or he would pick them up) daily and he was definately active before meeting me, that was in 1970 taking out time spent in prison he would have commited thousands of offences. These people need to be stopped. Unfortunately the authorities will not allow us to throw away the keys.

By my calculations three boys a day over a period of thiry four years is a total of 37,230. Taking account of those that didnt play ball say 50% thats 18,615 survivors

Kirk.
"Instigate change, as it appears it wont come naturally in our cause. Sometimes it needs a little forcing".


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#19753 - 07/23/05 07:24 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 129
Loc: earth
reading this post made me feel sick. no offense intended to anyone, but i have to share my feelings on this. i think its totally noble to want every young person to go after his abuser etc etc etc.

on the other hand, im a young person. and yes i have the power to make sure my abuser gets charged and everything. HOWEVER. its much easier to SAY it after the fact when you no longer have th power to do it, than it is to DO IT. i have lost SO many nights of sleep and convinced myself i am just as bad as him, because i dont have the balls to do something about it. yes other kids are being abused. hes doing it to other kids. he has to be. people like that dont just stop.

WHY IS IT MY RESPONSIBILITY.

i know it has to be someones. but some of us just are not strong enough to do that. a whole life of being treated like an animal and a sex object has brought me here, to this website, the only place i really truly feel like im understood. and even here there are some things i just cant talk about. because its too damn hard and it hurts too much. even with my therapist there are subjects i just cant bring up and memories i just cant talk about. its taking every tiny bit of strength i have in me to just keep going forward and try to put myself back together. and there is NO WAY IN HELL i could pick up a phone and call a lawyer or the police and tell a complete stranger the most traumatic, disgusting, humiliating, painful things that i keep buried inside me. and then what. go to court? and tell MORE people? and have to face him? sorry. call me weak. call me a total insensitive jerk for not being selfless enough to protect other kids. yes i care. more than i could ever explain. i hate myself every second because im so damn weak. and i hate myself for all the kids who are being hurt and it might as well be my fault.

but some of us just arent that strong. and im one of them. i could do it. but that would leave me with only one option and its not a good one.

i understand completely why people think us young guys should take acton and save the world. but im not a hero. im just a guy trying to survive.

_________________________
pUpPy

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#19754 - 07/23/05 07:36 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
As I've told my therapist several times, I have no inclination to rehabilitate my perp brother. He may be abusing others still, and it wouldn't surprise me if he is. But I don't see it as my obligation to further the trauma upon myself by trying to save the rest of the world from him. As Puppy said above, maybe I just don't have the balls for it, and that could very well be true. Self preservation and recovery is what I'm most interested in at this point, not falling into those same old patterns of the past where I feel like I have to please everyone and sacrifice myself for them in the process. I'm not going to do it, and I think no one else should be expected to have to extend their trauma further than it already has been done to them unless they feel especially led to do so.

And if someone told me that I should feel obligated to warn others about his character and that I had a duty to do it, I'd tell them to experience what I have, learn what living in my head is like, and then don't try to lay those guilt trips on me because I haven't the desire to prolong that aspect of this horrible thing.

_________________________
Eddie

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#19757 - 07/23/05 07:54 PM Re: Stop the Perps NOW--Young people, prosecute!
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Wow, did I see this coming, that is why I asked Jasper to put the trigger warning up.

It is a very contentious issue, and I could see why it would be.

I can still remember the hurt as a kid, wanting him caught, not wanting him caught, and the thing is, I reported it, and he never got caught as far as I remember.

The feelings of guilt, and what if he is caught, and what will happen, and will they believe him, because he is a grown up etc etc etc.

You fell guilty whichever way it goes, caught or not, it is your guilt and they just seem to walk away and ruin your life and not theirs.

If I had to go to court and he was found not guilty, then my mind would have been destroyed, and I dont suppose I would be here, but in some mental institution.

It is not your fault, it is not your guilt, it is not your shame and humiliation, it is theirs, but we cannot even give it to them, even if they are convicted, but we do have the peace of mind, that they are no longer free to do it to others.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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