Newest Members
The Wife Of, smusab, whiteflag, North101, JCEldrid
12286 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
DruidWolf (39), Harry (33), knigh50 (53), mike54 (56)
Who's Online
3 registered (tbkkfile, irishguym, 1 invisible), 26 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12286 Members
73 Forums
63203 Topics
441951 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#196113 - 12/21/07 12:47 AM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: Lazarus]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
No hard feelings here, either, Bocaj.

A lot of us have had bad experiences with the church and growing up gay in the church. When you have to hide who you are for decades because mom and dad find it an abomination (no matter how 'politely' they find it a sin, i.e. "love the sinner, hate the sin") it grows some resentment inside of you. As you can imagine, survivors have enough to hide and when you add the fact that mom and dad might possibly disown you, it's a lot of pressure.

I hope you can understand our reaction to arguments like yours after a lot of our histories in that respect.

That said...I welcome you here. \:\)

Can someone tell me what the "gay lifestyle" is? Like...dinner parties and a night at the disco? Or what? LOL

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

Top
#196139 - 12/21/07 09:06 AM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: AndyJB2005]
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Quote:
Can someone tell me what the "gay lifestyle" is? Like...dinner parties and a night at the disco? Or what? LOL


OK Where the hell is Jarrad when we need him?

LOL

James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


Top
#196161 - 12/21/07 10:33 AM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: James_dup1]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I know that if we recruit 5 or more people, we get a microwave oven. Providing they stay gay for 6 months or longer. ;\) LOL

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

Top
#196195 - 12/21/07 06:14 PM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: Lazarus]
bocaj Offline
New Here

Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 8
Thank you for the reply. I am in all honesty looking to learn as much as I can from all on this website. In addition I am not looking for conflicts, or enemies but other peer survivors willing to teach and learn. As for other sins that do not harm there there are countless. But again as the church is today people feel they can pick and choose what is sin and what is not, and there are many that are vaguely spoken about in the bible. The fact is sin is not based on harm for others, but primarily in harm of yourself, since christianity is based on your personal relationship with Christ not you relationship with others, although it does involve those other relationships indirectly. There are millions of things I do daily that are by definition sin that do not harm other people. take masturbation, which I know is a questionable one, or speeding, which is breaking the law, which it states in the bible to follow the laws of the land. How about lying, coveting, adultery of the mind, which are all commandments, and therefore I doubt you would argue much that they are sins. All in all my point is I dont want to target you or others for being gay but rather to learn from your views and how you see things, because I do not know. I feel we struggle together in this life, not separately being straight or gay, because our joint struggle is with sin, which we cannot avoid entirely. It bothers me that most guys I know are "homophobes" because I dislike most of them more because they drink and use and abuse woman than I would have problems with a gay person. I know much of my language and statements may come across as offensive but truth is this world is still opening up to the idea of homosexuality and most of us, including me, dont have a clue about it, or what struggles you endure. I know I am rambling now but I hope this reply wasnt pointless.


Top
#196196 - 12/21/07 06:33 PM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: bocaj]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I can see your point of view, Bocaj. \:\) And I respect your opinion. I disagree, but respect it with all my heart. \:\)

Not being Christian anymore, I don't believe in the Christian concept of sin. So it hard for me to get footing with this discussion past the semantic, because it all kind of doesn't "click" with me to begin with.

But I will try, promise. \:\)

I don't think the WORLD is opening up to the idea of homosexuality, I think the United States, in its antiquated puritanism, is. I think most of the world -- save for the more religious parts, ironically -- could care less.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

Top
#196271 - 12/22/07 12:40 PM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: AndyJB2005]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
bocaj:

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to be open about homosexuality, but the mere statement "homosexuality is a sin" is offensive to me in the same manner that saying "being Ukrainian is a sin" is. I am not even homosexual, though I am Ukrainian. Comparing homosexuality to alcoholism is also offensive to me. Everyone desires sex, because the sexual urge is something that is instilled within all species. Sex is an instinctive behavior. Alcoholism, however, is a learned behavior. Not everyone desires a drink. I am a recovering alcoholic, and homosexuality is not a sickness that comes even close to comparing to the sickness that I am defeating.

I also take offense to such statements like "masturbation is a sin" as well as "coveting is a sin" (isn't the theory of capitalism based on people coveting the belongings of others?). Quite obviously, this means that I am offended by the Old Testament, which I view to be a hideously intolerant book of persecution and genocide (yes, including the Ten Commandments).

I have no idea what "adultery of the mind" is.

The other sins you mentioned are speeding and lying. When people speed in their automobiles, they are either putting the lives of others at risk or they are putting undue wear and tear on a road that may have only been engineered for drivers to go a certain speed. Lying, on the other hand, is an action that requires some objectivity. There are two kinds of lies. The first one is the lie that is done for no other reason than to save my own butt. If a guy with an AK47 pointed at me asks me if my name is Bryan, I'm going to lie to him to save my life, and I am offended that anoyone would deem that a sin. However, if that same guy says he is going to kill another guy unless my name is Bryan, then the moral and just response would be to tell the truth.

I need reasons for actions to be "sins". I don't abide by rules or laws just because some archaic text tells me to. If a rule is imposed upon me with no moral backing, I will defy that rule vehemently. Dictatorships are formed because people blindly follow their beleifs without proper justification, and there is no worse abuse of authority than to claim one's respective deity deemed an action to be a sin without this proper justification.

Bryan



Edited by BJK (12/22/07 09:40 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#196277 - 12/22/07 01:36 PM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: BJK]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
The first one is the lie that is done for no other reason than to save my own butt. If a guy with an AK47 pointed at me asks me if my name is Bryan, I'm going to lie to him to save my life, and I am offended that anoyone would deem that a sin. However, if that same guy says he is going to kill another guy unless my name is Bryan, then the moral and just response would be to tell the truth.


Awesome \:\) Hmmmmm, wonder why Jesus didn't think of that.

Mike



Edited by mogigo (12/22/07 01:37 PM)
_________________________
Thriving

Top
#196282 - 12/22/07 03:11 PM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: mogigo]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."

-- Buddha

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

Top
#196356 - 12/23/07 07:49 AM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: mogigo]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
Quote:
Awesome \:\) Hmmmmm, wonder why Jesus didn't think of that.


What makes you think he didn't?

If a guy is gonna gun me down with an AK47 in the first place, I doubt it will matter to him what my name is. Might as well tell him my actual name.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
#196357 - 12/23/07 07:51 AM Re: Christian and Gay? [Re: BJK]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
Quote:
I don't abide by rules or laws just because some archaic text tells me to.


Well, that's the beauty of the power of choice. One has the power to thumb their nose at that "archaic text" if they want to. But I'll tell you what - that "archaic text" has molded more lives than you and I can count together, and has outlasted the test of time. It sure appears to be doing somebody some good.


Quote:
Quite obviously, this means that I am offended by the Old Testament, which I view to be a hideously intolerant book of persecution and genocide (yes, including the Ten Commandments).


Bryan, what exactly is "hideously intolerant" about the commandment "You shall not murder?" I kinda like having a commandment that tells others not to take my life from me. I'm curious as to why you find something as simple as this "offensive." If my life is not someone else's to take, isn't that "moral backing" enough?

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

Top
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.