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#196203 - 12/21/07 07:05 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Stephen_5]
DanM Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 540
Loc: So. California
Larry and Steve,

I agree with both of you, a 15 year old who sexually abuses another chld is in crisis and in need of help, not prison time. The idea to abuse other children didn't just jump into his head out of no where. I would suspect that he was also abused,thus making him a victim of CSA at some point. I think this was just a feel good measure by the judical system and politicians. I really believe there are very few people who give a damn about either the abused or the abuser. People only become interested when it is their child or a family member.

With warm regards,

Dan


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#196220 - 12/21/07 11:46 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: BJK
My first point against the registries is that they don't do any good, and that would be enough of a reason for me to abolish them. They create a false sense of security...


Exactly Brian. When you stop to consider that 90 + % of all children who are sexually abused are abused by a family member, pastor, teacher, or other trusted individual who is not likely to be on a sex offender registry in the first place.

Secondly, what ends up happening to those pedo's placed on the sex offender registry is they find there is virtually no place they are allowed to live once they register and end up homeless or in the substandard housing, have a very difficult time finding and keeping a job, etc. These conditions lead to depression which in turn leads to acting out which in turn leads to recidivism or repeat offense.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being sympathetic to them by any stretch, but when we want to talk about this I think we need to present the unintended consequences of this course of action. Surely we as a society can come up with something better than this.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#196221 - 12/21/07 11:56 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: WalkingSouth]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
We mustn't forget the perps' families. Many are married and have kids of their own (who may well be the victim in the first place). Those people are also effected by laws meant only for the offender. So if the victim is in the family, they get a double whammy. Sexual abuse then ridicule at school and harassment in the community. Many wives are forced to live inside those laws, too, or divorce their husbands -- whom they may still love.

How is it legal that people -- not convicted -- suffer the same punishment vicariously. One shouldn't have to choose between a home and a husband.

I recently read a story about a registered sex offender in Tennessee. After using the registry to find him, two men targeted his house and set it on fire, parking their truck on a nearby hill to watch the inferno. The intended target was of course the man, who was arrested for possessing child pornography, served his time, and was renting a place with his wife and kids.

The man was unharmed. The wife died in the blaze.

Stories like that scream to me that something else needs to be done. But to say that insights feelings that you're "sticking up" for perps from a lot of people.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#196222 - 12/22/07 01:49 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: AndyJB2005]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
lets say that he gets what some think is a fair punishment , maybe 5 years with intensive therapy,total cost ? a million ?when did society ever spend a million dollars on your healing? if you work not only did he perp you but your taxes pay for his therapy. but maybe you can't afford therapy on your wages. his family has to go on welfare because he's an outcast now ,your taxes again . he learns to act over the five years he convinces them he's ok now ,gets out and moves into a neighborhood ,with no registry in effect ,perps the kid next door ,what if the kids parents had seen his name on the registry? now he's back in prison living off your taxes again . i think we are doing our part to help them don't you? the perp made the decision to act i refuse to feel guilty about what happens to him .


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#196228 - 12/22/07 07:32 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I feel guilty about the kid next door that this fictional perp is much more likely to abuse once he gets out of prison if we lock him up and forget about him for five years.

If I was a parent, I wouldn't just "let" my child hang out with my adult next door neighbor if he had done jail time for any reason.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196229 - 12/22/07 07:56 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Luckily we can't incarcerate people on "what ifs." \:\)

What if someone accused you of "perping?" You'd sure want people to think about it then, I bet. What if you were found guilty? What if, what if what if? \:\)

I think it's sad that we are willing to lock someone up--a human being--for a quarter of their life rather than "pay more taxes" on treatment. God bless America, AND the Big Dollar.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#196241 - 12/22/07 09:40 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: AndyJB2005]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I have to go back to Rob's last post.

I couldn't agree with you more, Rob. The two most important aspects to consider when trying to stop childhood sexual abuse are making sure our children are educated AND making sure that those who offend don't offend again.

A case in point here lies in a recent political conversation I had with two longtime friends who are now parents. One is an ultra-conservative, and the other is a slightly right-wing moderate. Both of them objected to Barrack Obama as a political candidate because he is in favor of starting sex education in kindergarden. My response was simple. Wait a second here. I gave them some well-cited references and material to expose the dangers of childhood sexual abuse to children aged 5 and younger, and their reaction was not pleasant even with such facts in their face. The neo-con was adamant. "My children will learn about sex from me, dammit, and five years old is too young." The moderate was slightly swayed in the regards that he is willing to leat the schools teach about "good-touch/bad-touch", but he had a hard time with allowing strangers to teach his kids about sex even if it is age appropriate.

My point was completely lost on them. The fact that most childhood sexual abuse occurs within the home was something they simply could not comprehend. The problem, as I see it, is that too many parents are simply not fit to be parents. How can we rely on parents to teach their kids about sex in an appropriate way when most of the victims of childhood sexual abuse are perped by their parents?

We need kids to disclose at a young age if they are sexually abused so we can get them treatment before they have 20 years of their life to reprogram. We need kids to know what sexual abuse is so that they can disclose.

Just for the record, this conversation did have a positive outcome. About two months later, my moderate friend sent me an email thanking me for the information I gave him. His daughter, now 4 years old, had asked him THE question about two months after this conversation had happened. Instead of just sweeping it under the rug like his instincts told him to, he had a long conversation with his wife about how to discuss the "birds and the bees" with their daughter. The three of them sat down and had a "family talk". Afterwards, my friend confided in me that he felt so good about that talk which was so difficult to have, he was hoping it would be the first of many.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196243 - 12/22/07 09:47 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Another point to consider in all of this is the fact that it is so easy to just say "they get what they deserve" when it comes to contemplating the punishments of abusers. It is so easy to just say "it's not my problem".

The problem is...it is your problem. It is a problem that affects all of us. The fact is, if perps don't get help, they abuse again, and again, and again, and again.

I have to say it again and again...the severity of what was done to me has no correlation whatsoever to what should happen to my perp. The important thing is to do everything in our power to make sure that the perp does not abuse again. Sure, we can lock them all up for the rest of their lives, but I'm pretty certain that, if we look at just dollars and cents, it is much cheaper to give them five years of extensive treatment. No, the cost of locking a perp up for 5 years with extensive treatment is not a million dollars more than just locking him up for five years and forgetting about him. I'd be surprised if the cost differential for such treatment is even in the six figures.

So I have to ask, is protecting a child from being sexually abused worth $100,000 in tax payer money? My answer is quite simple. Hell yes.

Getting perps treatment isn't about giving them more than we can afford to give ourselves. It's all about protecting children.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#196246 - 12/22/07 09:56 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Yes educating our children is vitally important. When mine where little we (my wife and I) made sure they understood the difference's between good touch, bad touch. We made sure they knew the proper names of body parts. We made they understood that no one not even mom or dad had a right to touch them "there" or have them touch someone else "there". And that "if" someone did they should tell and keep telling till someone made it stop. We didn't relize just how important this would turn out till my daughter was 4. At which time a neighbor boy of 18 touched her "there". She then came right home and told her mom about this. We called the police right away and then took her to the police station to be "interviewed". The officer who talked to her was kind, gental, and very supportive of the fact she was trying to get information from a 4 y/o child. Because my dauther knew the proper names for body parts she was able to tell the officer EXCITLY where she was touched and where and when it happened. Because of this taped interview he was arrested, and pled guilty to touching her and sent to treatment.

So yes EDUCATION is the key to this. Not just edcuating the general public but the children. After all they are ones who are being targeted by perps not the adults. It always meakes me think of them news storys you see where they warn older people to be careful there is this scam or that scam going on targeting them out of there money. We will broadcast on the evening news a warning about this. But when it comes to teaching our children how to be safe and to understand this might happen just seems the general public has blinders on and has the "not my child, not in my home" way of thinking. Sad really

James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#196247 - 12/22/07 10:02 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: James_dup1]
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Quote:
is protecting a child from being sexually abused worth $100,000 in tax payer money?


I add my answer to this HELL YES!!!!!!

Quote:
Getting perps treatment isn't about giving them more than we can afford to give ourselves. It's all about protecting children


I ageee. I wonder what the stats are on how many vic's just ONE perp will have in there life time left untreated. "IF" we can intervin and help the perp NOT re-offend..or even take that first step by useing org's like Stop It Now that Ken talked about how much is it worth? How much is the life of just one of your children worth? How much do we spend to bring back a moon rock to put under glass in DC? How much do we spend protecting the future of this world? Just one child is worth 10X's what is being spent.

James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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