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#196248 - 12/22/07 10:03 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Very interesting discussion guys.

Bryan? MOST perps are the parents of the victim? Are you SURE about this? Perhaps we could defer to Mr. Singer's experienced opinion on this matter?

Ignorance of the problem was what doomed me to my dysfunctional life. Had an early-grade teacher taught me about sexual abuse and what I should do about it, since my parents were too ignorant, I probably would not know any of you guys. I would have turned out ok. But now, I have to unlearn 30 years of "reprogramming" as Bryan put it.


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#196252 - 12/22/07 10:35 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Hauser]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Does anyone know of a website that does age-appropriate SA protection education for kids. If there's not on out there, there ought to be one.

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#196253 - 12/22/07 10:38 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Still]
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
WOW Robbie that may be a direction the BOD would like to take. You should email the edcation committee and ask them. We might be able to put togehter an packet type thing for use in educating parents on how to talk to there kids about this subject. Cool idea man

James

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#196254 - 12/22/07 10:56 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Hauser]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
The adjective "most" was a poor choice by me based on speculation of incomplete data. The fact is that the highest number of perpetrators are a victim's parents, and I've seen this number range anywhere from 25% to 55% on different surveys and studies I've perused. A "plurality" would have been a better adjective to use. Even so, it is my belief that since a person is much less likely to disclose abuse if it was commited by a parent, and since we only have data based on abuse that has been disclosed, that most cases of childhood sexual abuse are indeed committed by the parents of the victim.

However, most sites like rainn.org, foothillsalliance.org, jimhopper.com, prevent-abuse-now.com, stopitnow.org, and the like all seem to be in agreement that 70% or more of all reported childhood sexual abuse cases are committed by an immediate family member.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196281 - 12/22/07 02:57 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
This is cross posted from my blog, which I posted this a while ago -- I think it relates to this topic of strangers vs. parents. Citations are available upon request. \:\)

***

A couple of years ago (2002), we had an "epidemic" in this country. It was quickly labeled by the media as "The Summer of Abductions." From watching the news, one got the impression that kids were being snatched constantly and that nowhere was safe for children anymore. There's just one problem with that. The child-abduction rate in 2002 was at an all-time low. That's right, the "summer of abductions" actually had less abductions than in previous years. The simple fact is that the media blew everything way out of proportion to hike up ratings. The media in this country knows full well that any story involving children in peril will get instant attention.

Everyone knows how dangerous it is for kids out in the world, right? Everyone knows that strangers can't be trusted, right? This is so sad. It's sad because what "everyone knows" is wrong. According to all the recorded facts and statistics, it seems that children are actually safer with strangers than they are with their own parents! Let's take a look at some of the facts:

According to the U.S. Dept. of Justice statistics on violent crimes (1973 - 2002), the rate of kidnappings perpetrated by strangers is 0.0017 percent for every 1,000 children. In real-world numbers, this means that out of every 1,000 children who get kidnapped, only 1 or 2 of them are taken by strangers.

According to another study done by the U.S. Dept. of Justice, of the roughly 69,000 kidnappings that occurred in 1999 only 115 of them were abductions by strangers.

But wait, there's more!

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, in the year 2000, the following occurred:

255 children died from flu or pnumonia.
452 children died from heart disease
1,921 children committed suicide
11,560 children died from accidental injuries

So, what does all that mean in relation to the topic at hand? Let me break it down for you. When compared to the actual statistics for stranger abductions, a little simple math shows us.

Children are twice as likely to die of the flu than be kidnapped by a stranger
Children are 4 times more likely to die of heart disease than be kidnapped by a stranger
Children are 17 times more likely to commit suicide than be kidnapped by a stranger
Children are 100 times more likely to die because of an accidental death than be kidnapped by a stranger

Let's compare the odds of getting abducted by a stranger to some other things.

The odds of dying in a plane crash are 1 in 310,000. The odds of being abducted by a stranger? 1 in 610,000. The odds of being struck by lightening are 1 in 240,000. A child is 2 and a half times more likely to get hit by lightening than to get taken by a stranger. But, when was the last time the news made a big deal out of child getting struck dead by lightening? Apparently, it happens more than twice as often, yet we never hear about it. Hmmm.. I wonder why.

Now, at this point you may be asking yourself a question: If strangers aren't the ones snatching children in the middle of the night, then who else could be doing it? For that, let's look at some more dry boring statistics.

Of those 69,000 abductions that occurred in 1999, about 82 percent of them were perpetrated by family members and 11.3 percent by friends of the family (or other adults that the child knew well).

It seems that the strangers aren't the real danger after all. It's looking pretty clear to me that the real danger to children comes from within the walls of their own homes, not from any mysterious sicko on the outside. Children are in the most danger from the own families. I'm not exactly shocked by this revelation. I only wish the media had the guts to tell the truth for once so that other people could see the light too.

Don't think that this only applies to kidnapping cases. Oh no, strangers are also notorious for molesting kids too. Everybody knows that you can't just trust a stranger with your child. Oh really?

According to yet another report from the Dept. of Justice, of the sexual offenses committed against children in 2000, 34.2% of the perpetrators were family members and 58.7% were friends of the family (or other adults the children knew well). In the age range for sex-related crime victims of 6 to 11 year olds, only 4.7% of their molesters were strangers and in the age range of 0 to 5 years of age, only 3.1% of the perpetrators were strangers.

Nope, I'm not finished yet...

In a report compiled by Child Help USA it was discovered that the leading types of child abuse in the United States for the year 2001 were neglect (which makes up about 59% of child abuse) and physical abuse (which make up 19% of abuse to kids). The most disgusting thing that can be learned from this report has to be the fact that 81% of abusers were the child's parents!

The fact that more people don't know about this is pathetic! Thanks to our wonderful media (heavy on the sarcasm there), most Americans have this delusional image that children aren't safe from strangers anywhere and that all those poor parents must be so worried, etc, etc. The fact of the matter is that all those "poor parents" out there are the ones abusing their kids in the first place!

This "stranger danger" stuff has got to stop! Our children are hurt by it and they suffer more with each passing day because of it! The general public must learn that parents and other family members are the ones doing most of the abuse. There is no tangible danger from the average unknown person (stranger). The facts show that most strangers wouldn't hurt your child, but rather, it is your child's other relatives as well as any adult friends he/she may have that are the most danger to them. Well, actually, it's you the parent who are the most danger to them, but I assume that if you're reading this and you abuse your kids then you already know that you're the one hurting them and not any strangers, so I hardly need to point that out.

Educate people. Make sure that everyone knows these astonishing (and well-hidden) facts. Get the word out there and maybe it can make a difference!

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#196286 - 12/22/07 03:26 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: AndyJB2005]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Awesome post, Andy.

I must point out one thing, though. I'm always skeptical about the department of Justice's statistics simply because they only report on actual convictions. When fewer than 20% of all reported sexual abuse cases end up in a conviction, and who knows how many sexual abuse incidents go unreported, it leads me to believe that their statistics, though staggering, are still quite conservative.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196290 - 12/22/07 04:03 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Oh, I wanted to point out a website that is dedicated to Victim/Offender Healing and positive law enforcement; promoting restorative justice rather than retributive justice.

Here is there mission statement taken from their website:

SOSEN Mission Statement
S.O.S.E.N.
Sex Offender Support & Education Network

Our mission is to advocate for positive sex offender policies and programs that include accountability, fair sentencing, and supportive community reintegration strategies. We support the rights of former offenders and their families to live peaceful, productive lives free from changing restrictions and public humiliation, discrimination, and violence.

We aim to educate the public and debunk the myths propagated by uninformed lawmakers and the media through presenting factual evidence regarding sex offenders, recidivism, and public safety.

We work to correct policies that have been proven unsuccessful and costly while contributing to failure for former offenders trying to succeed in life. These egregious strategies and perceptions yield nothing but ignorance, intolerance, and more legislation that is ineffectual.

The SOSEN network endeavors to promote positive policy, programs, and incentives that are proven to work through the Restorative Justice method.

We engage in ongoing opinion activities and research in a collaborative environment with other organizations and individuals striving to make a difference in the rebuilding of individual lives and families.

**

You can read more of their mission statement on their website by clicking "read more" under that.

http://www.sosen.us

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#196401 - 12/23/07 12:08 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: AndyJB2005]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5773
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I don't know what the percentage is regarding the relationship of the perpetrator to the victim as far as how many are parents. There are a lot of step-parents and boyfriends of the mother (or aunts or babysitters) who abuse kids in the home.

The key figure of that 90% number is that the children are related or acquainted with the abusers. So, the common focus of stranger danger is missing the point, particularly in creating or perpetuating a false sense of security. Because the topic is so non-emotionally charged and difficult to deal with , people assume that if all the CAUGHT perpetrators are online for easy look up, the parents can breathe easier that they know who presents a risk to the child.

Since so many faces are on the registries, if the parent just shows the faces to the child of the neighbors, those outside of the neighborhood can still present a risk, and what about Uncle Harry who visits at the holidays? Taking a fear-based approach ("Watch out for this person, that person, etc.") is just generating suspicion and worry for children. This is not about empowerment, it is about making the child scared.

It is a lot easier to demonize the known abusers (who in reality with supervision and treatment pose very little risk compared to those not yet caught) than to focus on child directed prevention strategies, as well as those aimed at adults in the child's life who are doing grooming or setting up behaviors (Stop It Now!'s focus).

And the cost of treatment, whether in the community or in prison, is still cheaper than lengthy prison sentences. Prevention is cheaper still.

Ken


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#196408 - 12/23/07 02:18 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
it seems unfair how much focus is placed on helping the abuser,yes we should educate the kids ,but where are all the resources for the survivor? where i live there are no groups ,no state or fedral programs ,it's at least 100 miles to the nearest therapist that does sa,your choices are the womens help center or the suicide hotline ! very little risk is too much risk to me . should convicted offenders be able to just disappear into society if they are released? if nothing else the regestry at least makes them aware that they are not invisible. in another thread a man got 170 years sentence and everyone says good,seems like it can't be both ways . how is the hornbeck case any different? this perp beat those kids, forced them to do stuff. but his sentence is extreme?


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#196415 - 12/23/07 03:02 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
We're not saying that there shouldn't be better resources for survivors. To the contrary, that is yet another place where our society needs to step up.

The biggest difference between the Hornbeck case and this case is that this case is dealing with a juvenile while the Hornbeck case is dealing with an adult. Yeah, I feel 170 years is a little extreme, but at the same time, that man kidnapped Shawn Hornbeck for a period of three years and crossed state lines with his victim.

You say very little risk is too much risk while I say that treating sex offedners like animals heightens the risk. Again....can't have it both ways.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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