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#196526 - 12/24/07 11:50 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
Primary prevention is preventing the abuse before it occurs. This happens by educating children to be aware and assertive about their rights to be free of unwanted touch. Most abusers will back off from an assertive child. Although some will be forceful, way many more children are abused who say nothing (this is not a victim blaming statement, only an observation from research and many years of working with victims, survivors, and perpetrators.)


This would have saved me.


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#197206 - 12/30/07 06:11 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: evanesence]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted By: evanesence
in another thread a man got 170 years sentence and everyone says good,seems like it can't be both ways . how is the hornbeck case any different? this perp beat those kids, forced them to do stuff. but his sentence is extreme?


The first big difference is that in that other case the facts are by now well known; in this one, all we know is that the boy did some terrible things - the background and broader context is entirely missing.

In that other case the perpetrator was an adult; in this one the perp is himself a boy and therefore not accountable for his actions (it looks like the court decided to try him as an adult, but who knows).

In that other case an adult planned and executed two kidnappings, took the boys away from their families and allowed those families to wonder if they were dead, and did so in order to reduce the boys to sexual slavery. For one boy that slavery lasted for 4 years. The 15-year-old threatened two younger boys and made them give him oral sex, apparently on one occasion, though yes, there were other offenses for which charges were dropped.

The 170-year sentence is a tactic to ensure he gets life imprisonment. That is, he will never live long enough to serve enough percentage of his time to be considered for parole. Some jurisdictions have laws on the books imposing a mandatory life sentence without possibility of parole for extreme cases of rape and sexual abuse (raping a child under 14, for example). Perhaps the sentence was set to achieve a similar result.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#200246 - 01/19/08 04:23 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Stephen_5]
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I agree, he doesn't need a life sentence, he needs help.
Nobody wants to know why? These kids do these things, and there may be significant family issues regarding this case.

I am in no way condoning what he did, but the law just casts these kids away into the unknown, and he will get little help with his problems.
ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#200423 - 01/20/08 06:56 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: reality2k4]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
I have been reading this thread and have to agree this kid was a victim in many ways himself and there is no justice for anyone here in this tragis story. The news links I found don't give a detailed history but the perp's father is in prison and his mother is in jail. There are a lot of missing facts but to me it is clear, incarceration will only prepetuate his behavior and anger. This was mishandled from the get go and the kid fell through the cracks. I am not justifying his hideous behaviors at all. This is tragic at age 15 no matter what his size. I am adding 2 news links through Google if anyone wants to view them.
http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/10799371.html
http://www.wndu.com/localnews/headlines/12626076.html

There is a lot we don't know here and it is outrageous that he was not helped after what seems to be a previous incident.

Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#200428 - 01/20/08 07:16 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: reality2k4]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ste, I think that's part of the strategy. A case like this demands that the authorities "do something". If you crucify a kid who's ease to hate, that's it; you have what you need for quotes and sound bytes. On the other hand, an effective program is an investment of time, energy, personnel and funds for years and years, not to mention the hassle of setting it up.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#200450 - 01/20/08 11:03 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: roadrunner]
Danbuff Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Larry, I agree but we are in America here. This is land of stupid policy and archaic leaders. The only thing authorities do here is create fear rather than use common sense and compassion. Brains were outlawed around the time of Ronald Regan.

Peace,
Dan

_________________________
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

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#348348 - 12/16/10 11:12 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Hauser]
SAD Offline


Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 1


I'm not shocked.He's guilty but after years at the hands of a teacher doing he same to him what else was to be expected?His teacher had a history of 'playing' with young boys-the RV district did nothing except to move him to another school.He did the same there confronted except move the teacher to another school and tell him to leave his classrom door open but he didn't.He closed the doors and showed movies in the dark while holding 3rd and 4th grade boys on his lap.When the law finally cornered the teacher he was a coward-he killed himself.Unfortunately other boys hurt were left with NO way to get justice,counseling or legal satisfaction.This 1 kid broke down and filled the role of his mentor.Who's REALLY to blame?He's paying for the teachers crime.Shame on RV Middle school (Three Oaks-MI- was where he was at).They KNEW what this teacher creep did,still doing and this kid and the poor boys he hurt are paying the price.Teacjhers knew, adults reported the behavior as did children...all was ignored. This was a sad lonely boy who was otherwise polite and eager to learn. He was perfect fodder for the teacher to 'take under his wing'. What happened was swept under the rug when he committed suicide so no kids got the counseling needed from the school or state since the perp. was dead by his own hand. I do not admonish him for his crimes but as a lonely young man whose only male role model was a molester what else could he cling to? I tried again and again to get this stopped but the small town police force and school board did not want to hear it... This kid needs help...he HAS a problem but one that was created by a trusted adult while his parents sat in prison/jail. Who is the real person that deserves the blame?????????
Imagine your son in prison with adult thugs-I'm sure he's learning all sorts of new tricks.What did this arrest solve


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#348400 - 12/17/10 06:42 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: SAD]
SamV Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5942
Loc: Talladega, Alabama, USA
Originally Posted By: SAD

I tried again and again to get this stopped but the small town police force and school board did not want to hear it... This kid needs help...he HAS a problem but one that was created by a trusted adult while his parents sat in prison/jail. Who is the real person that deserves the blame?????????


Thank you SAD, for being the lone voice that stood up against the terror this young boy suffered at the hands of the molester. The victims are countless, and every child that went to his class or school should receive counseling.

That you stood up for the rights and safety of these children, that you were "unpopular", that makes my heart glad. You did the right thing. Thank you.

Sam

_________________________
MaleSurvivor Moderator Emeritus 2012 - 2014

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#348463 - 12/18/10 03:24 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: SamV]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 821
Loc: Ohio
This is a problem. Clearly we have to understand that certain things were done to the boy that absent those actions, his own crimes would never have happened. BUT, one of the myths that we fight as survivors is the vampire myth, that once bitten you are condemned to be a vampire yourself. It is true that having been involved in adult child sex, many are condemned to distorted thinking that causes us to contemplate and fantasize about doing the same to others. However, myself and most other victims are able to refrain from acting out.

The average child molester has 107 victims over a lifetime. Given the consequences, whether sex related, drug/addiction related or relation/anger related crimes, most of the victims are eventually put in jail. Thus I say either jail one perp now or 1 hundred of his victims later. Had the teacher been jailed, we would not be discussing this case. Had this boy who then chose to victimize others not been jailed, there would be further victims. I would argue for the 80 years.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#348492 - 12/19/10 08:07 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: catfish86]
diamondheart Offline
Member

Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 157
Loc: Michigan
He is a teen that did very adult things. Sure I can understand when a child has gone through a troublesome past, including csa but it doesn't justify what they have done especially something as horrific as this case.

Lets not forget these facts:

Quote:
Prosecutors say he lured the 11- and 12-year-old boys to his home, barricaded himself in a bedroom with the boys, struck them with a fireplace poker and forced them to perform oral sex on him.

What he did was much more than sexual abuse. There were origionally 17 felony charges against him.

You talk about what he will have to go through now in an adult prision? What about these two boys who will probably never be the same for what was done to them???

Plus there is more to the case than the article listed, as Ken Singer LCSW stated:

Quote:
I think the problem here is that the kid is a juvenile and is being sentenced as an adult. Juvenile justice, at least for the last 30 years, recognizes, for the most part, that adolescents don't think like adults and juvenile courts were set up to go for rehabilitation rather than punishment.

We are missing a lot of important information. Maybe the kid is 6'3". Maybe he had been previously in sex offender treatment and washed out. Maybe there were some sadistic and heinous aspects of the crime that were not reported in the brief article.

My hope here is not about debating the merits of this sentence with so much information is missing. As someone who has been involved with the treatment of juvenile sexual abusers for a long time, I would expect there to be some extremely sadistic behaviors on the part of this kid, as well as treatment failure for previous offenses to warrant such a sentence. This kind of sentence is really extreme. Even adults who commit murder don't get this kind of treatment.

I am sorry, but this teen does not sound like a sad lonely child! He used physical force to abuse these two children and not only that but barricaded them in!

Sure he was a victim at some point, but so many are and don't repeat these patterns, especially in this way! Once he crossed the line, he is no longer a victim in my eyes. He made a choice.

Many people who commit crimes have had a rough upbringing but that doesn't take away from the seriousness of their actions. You can't just erase away all the bad, just because of persons history. Children of certain age can be tried as adults if the crime is serious enough, obviously the evidence and case was strong enough to prosecute him as an adult!

Personally, I can't have any sympathy for him. Sure others are to blame as well, including his parents, grandparents, and the school district as well but he is the one that gets the blame for HIS actions.

The only person clear of blame are the real victims in this case and that being the two boys he so violently abused!

I can't focus on the injustices of the sexual perpatrators even when they are children themselves but the injustices of those vicitims who do not repeat it!

Quote:
The "Vampire Syndrome" that is, boys who are sexually abused, like the victims of Count Dracula, go on to "bite" or sexually abuse others.

This myth is especially dangerous because it can create a terrible stigma for the child, that he is destined to become an offender. Boys might be treated as potential perpetrators rather than victims who need help. While it is true that most perpetrators have histories of sexual abuse, it is NOT true that most victims go on to become perpetrators. Research by Jane Gilgun, Judith Becker and John Hunter found a primary difference between perpetrators who were sexually abused and sexually abused males who never perpetrated: non-perpetrators told about the abuse, and were believed and supported by significant people in their lives. Again, the majority of victims do not go on to become adolescent or adult perpetrators; and those who do perpetrate in adolescence usually don't perpetrate as adults if they get help when they are young.

And as Ken Singer also pointed out:
Quote:
as well as treatment failure for previous offenses to warrant such a sentence. This kind of sentence is really extreme. Even adults who commit murder don't get this kind of treatment.

It seems very clear based on everything that is known about perps, that there were many more victims before these two boys! They don't just lock up children for no reason!

Those are just my thoughts on the matter!

_________________________
I am a gay guy just trying to find my way...

http://itismytimetoshine.wordpress.com

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