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#196059 - 12/20/07 02:15 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: AndyJB2005]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I am really with Larry on this. No one has made any sense when they have tried to tell me how punishing a perp has ever helped a victim. I have compassion for all people, and I truly believe that all babies are born innocent. Something happens along the way that turns them into monsters, and if we truly want to protect our kids, we will learn to have at least enough compassion for these "monsters" to learn how to cure them. If we are incapable of doing that, then we will never stop child abuse.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196089 - 12/20/07 06:36 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Stephen_5]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I think the problem here is that the kid is a juvenile and is being sentenced as an adult. Juvenile justice, at least for the last 30 years, recognizes, for the most part, that adolescents don't think like adults and juvenile courts were set up to go for rehabilitation rather than punishment.

We are missing a lot of important information. Maybe the kid is 6'3". Maybe he had been previously in sex offender treatment and washed out. Maybe there were some sadistic and heinous aspects of the crime that were not reported in the brief article.

My hope here is not about debating the merits of this sentence with so much information is missing. As someone who has been involved with the treatment of juvenile sexual abusers for a long time, I would expect there to be some extremely sadistic behaviors on the part of this kid, as well as treatment failure for previous offenses to warrant such a sentence. This kind of sentence is really extreme. Even adults who commit murder don't get this kind of treatment.

Main thing is that the vast majority of youth who commit sexual offenses remain offense-free for the rest of their lives. That is documented by a good deal of research in this field.

Ken


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#196095 - 12/20/07 09:09 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Stephen_5]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
I see that the problem is a judicial system that has to make laws that have a definite line that cannot be crossed. Situational ethics would take into account what was going on to interfer with the 15 year olds thought patterns. My own experience with a boy my age wasn't thought of as right or wrong it was just done, we never talked about it or acted indifferent towards each other it was just done. Taught by a perp, no doubt
but not given any value, positive or negative. A compassionate system, and I am aware of the flaws in expecting that to come about, would have seen the flags go up on the boy long before the line was crossed and the regimented arm of the law took over. The lost boy has just been pushed farther down the tunnel and for all practical purposes, his life is over; his perp won by law.
I also have compassion for his victims, what I am saying is that if our system had the right focus it would watch for symptoms in children in our schools, churches, community clubs, etc. and nudge these damaged members of the human herd into a protective environment.
But that's idealism and the fact is that we will have to watch as our brothers are misunderstood, make poor decisions and pay with their lives without us being able to help them. At other times we will catch the situation in time and help to save another brother from the destructive life that is in his path.
Getting this topic out into mainstream conversation is a must. Not for the sensationalism of it, which I think in the long run does more damage by desensitizing people toward CSA, but as a serious community problem to be solved by think tanks with good community communication links.

Lovingly,
Dan

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#196097 - 12/20/07 09:22 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
When I see a story of a 15-year-old getting a sentence that's 150% of how long he's already been on earth, my suspicion is that there's local passion and even hysteria in play. Judges are, after all, political officials.

It's like legislators who rage in public about the horrors of child abuse, and then, instead of implementing meaningful programs that can actually do something about the problem, simply pass a law, for example, forbidding pedophiles from living close to schools - as if the problem is lurking strangers. But it's been known for a long time now that more than 90% of abused kids are molested by people they know, and the vast majority of these are abused in their own homes. So perp strangers moving close by have little to do with the problem, and the law restricting where abusers can live only serves to drive them into isolated areas far from places where they can get access to therapists and treatment programs.

My own feeling is this, and here comes the cynicism: If lawmakers want to implement a real program it has to be researched, planned, vetted, implemented, budgeted, staffed, with all kinds of infrastructure - in other words it will cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. It's far cheaper and faster to "legislate" against the problem and leave it at that, even if the new law simply becomes a part of the problem rather than facilitating a solution.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#196101 - 12/20/07 09:39 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: roadrunner]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
Larry, sounds as if you have been thinking about this topic for some time. I believe you are right on target. Legislators can get re-elected if they move on "sensational" topics acting more out of demagoguery than what will better affect future generations. Any hopeful thoughts on how to put some steam into reform?
Lovingly,
Dan

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#196102 - 12/20/07 10:15 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: dancr6]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
At age 16-17 I was involved in a crime with my older brother and a guy that I was staying with at the time. They were both older, in their 20s, the charges were felony, conspiracy to commit a felony, and breaking & entering at night.
They both got 6mo. probation. I was tried as an adult 1 year probation and a permanent felony record. They got on with their lives after 6 months and their records clean. Me I still have a rap sheet for that and it damn near ruined my life. I was a follower and made bad choices and was treated like a master criminal. This stopped me from getting back in school, limited my job potential, and severely handicapped any hope for a future in the good ol USA.
It was 17 years ago when finally I was able to take my GED, then about 1995 I learned how to be a computer tech. through a correspondence school in a TV ad. Then I had to work my ass off just to get my foot in the door.
Yes this is a rant and if the people in our court system were not so f@#$%d up I might have had a better chance. Instead I paid for a crime most of my life. I was never put in counseling, had a T or a psychiatrist. I was tested for 1/2 a day and results I was severely depressed and have an IQ of 135.
WTF is wrong with this picture? No positive action was ever taken!

I don't like the fact a 15 yo was even capable of such crimes and there does need to be something done. But prison? He will either die or become even more warped and demented than he is now.
This is a rough topic guys.... sorry I went off, the court system stuff really pisses me off!!!!!!!!

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#196106 - 12/20/07 11:04 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: GateKPR4]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
This kid, for example, has been condemned to at least 23 years Will he get the offense-specific therapy and other help he needs? Not likely - he will probably get raped himself . And what about his education; will he be able to finish that? Nope. Instead he will get introduced to the criminal ways of others. So when he emerges from his prison at the age of 38 he's likely to be a bitter hardened survivor. How has that solved anything? this could describe the lives of half the guys here! ,if the kid finally realizes what the problem is at 38,lots of survivors are a lot older before they even try to heal, 23 years seems harsh when the kid did nothing. the victim gets a life sentence ,no chance of parole . no rehab ,just a hearty hey kid get over it.


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#196107 - 12/20/07 11:05 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: GateKPR4]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Just to put it out there, the opposite in Canada. I'm watching a story about a Father who abused his daughter (a toddler) on-line. He got five years, after giving double credit for time served he will in total serve 22 months. Fucking sickening.

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#196125 - 12/21/07 03:15 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: Stephen_5]
bocaj Offline
New Here

Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 8
The other side of this case is if this kid, which he is a kid, is left alone how many other boys will end up abused? Sure there are better ways of handling it, but its true we have a flawed system with limited options where you can only charge perps with what is in the book, and this may be the best and safest option to do the most good. This way might give many many boys a chance to survive childhood without sexual abuse they woudlve otherwise received. I would much rather see ten boys not abused than one abuser not go to jail, whether he was made an abuser or not.


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#196131 - 12/21/07 05:51 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: bocaj]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
True bocaj, he is still a perp and many boys will probably be spared from the horrors we ourselves went through. In that light I agree something needs to be done. I don't know the whole story just what I have read here. Still leaves the question what made him the way he is, and can he be treated?

Its horrible that this kid has turned into what he has. Could be the damage is done, the aggressive nature of his crimes are very disturbing.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
|| || || || || || |

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