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#195938 - 12/19/07 01:07 PM .
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
...


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 04:04 PM)

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#195968 - 12/19/07 07:29 PM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: bardo213]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
I have struggled with religion in my life also. I, however, do not struggle with God. Jung said that society is the sum total of individuals in need of redemption. I apply that to church government.
Jesus even said that what was between God and Peter was just that, between them. My relationship with God is comforting and loving, not because of someones idea put on me but because of my experience with God and that has been great and getting better. The universe has been set in motion and even though we experience horrors I have a deep, deep feeling that this experience of the universal movement will turn out to be to our advantage.

LOVINGLY,
Dan

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#196244 - 12/22/07 09:52 AM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: dancr6]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
lynchmob,

It's hard for me to voice my opinion on religion simply because 1) religion was used as a source of abuse for much of my life and 2) I get triggered heavily when people take offense to what I write about religion.

I don't believe in God. I can't prove he doesn't exist. At the same time, I can't prove that Russell's Teapot isn't floating in orbit of the earth somewhere, either. You get my point.

I can use all kinds of analogies here, but people get offended too easily when mention is made of their respective sky fairies. I will say this, though. If I believed in hell, I'd have killed myself a long time ago. An eternity of nothing is much more frightening to me than an eternity in hell.

If it wasn't for the fact that I used my strength and my moral compass to pull through the hell I have endured, I wouldn't have made it. If I was relying on a higher power, I would have given up.

I have no doubt in my mind in regards to my religious beliefs (or lack thereof). I call myself agnostic only because I can't prove God doesn't exist any more than anyone can prove he does exist.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196255 - 12/22/07 11:00 AM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: BJK]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11027
Loc: Denver, CO
lynchmob,

I believe in God for several reasons.

The first introduction I had to anything spiritual was from a bus driver when I was 13. He took pity on me when I was being bullied, and asked me to go another round with him before class started. He spoke to me in hopeful ways, and prayed for me right there as he drove. (Good thing the ACLU wasn't there - he'd be fired.) So I had a positive reinforcement from the get-go.

Another reason I believe is because of life complexities. I'm no programmer by trade, but I've learned enough code to know that it takes brains to right a simple program. Code doesn't write itself, it takes a designer. My body is much more complex than any C++ or Java, so it is a stretch for me to claim that chance made us when our complex and amazing bodies do and build such great things. I could go on and on...

I also think of the book we know as the Bible. This is one book that has lasted a very long time, and has been spread all over the world. There are other writings which are also old, and have been circulated, but don't enjoy near as much standing as the bible has/does. Some governments fear the Bible and the results it produces - look at China. The Bible is a registered book there. I don't know how many languages the bible has been written in, but it's been many. And, no author on earth claimed royalties against its authorship.

Finally, I would feel very hopeless without any notion of a God that cares, and is nothing like my earthly father. Yes, there are unanswered questions that many of us have that seem to demand satisfaction. There is a point where I feel I must have a ruthless trust where I do not understand. My earthly father needed me to trust him with certain matters where I did not understand. I figure why should Father God be different when it comes to matters I don't understand with Him?

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#196270 - 12/22/07 12:25 PM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: FormerTexan]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
The only thing I know is that I have had a few experiences that can not e explained in words. I really should be dead or severely brain damaged. But I'm not and have no idea what who or why, something intervened. I believe there is something but what that something is I can't tell you. I can say that When ever I had an experience it was powerful. I don't follow any religion because each is right and and if you don't believe in their flavor than your wrong. Somehow I just can't buy into that.
So I got my own flavor vanilla chocolate. lol seriously I just follow my heart. if something feels wrong it probably is. If it feels right then its weird... because I'm not used to that. I am learning though \:\)

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_τΏτ_m__
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#196285 - 12/22/07 03:22 PM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: GateKPR4]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I pretty much grew up agnostic until age 12 -- my grandparents didn't really talk that much about religion, but didn't hate it either. Then I slowly became Christian over my teen years when I went to live with my mom, coming to an apex in my senior year of high school. I then had a bad experience which soured me, and helped me look at other options. I started learning about religion on my own, studying a lot of them, with equal footing in all of them. I was still Christian when I was exploring, and then I just fell out of it, and I couldn't in good conscious be Christian anymore. I didn't think I fit in their mold. I couldn't believe what they did in my heart. So I pondered for years and I've really come to my own beliefs. I have a foot in Buddhism, and a foot in just...Deism I guess.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#196303 - 12/22/07 07:00 PM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: AndyJB2005]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
I'm pretty much with you, Andy, I look at all religions and see the common threads but my basic belief is something more like Deism; I know in my heart God exists but I cannot begin to explain the whole concept and I don't believe the church autorities have any better handle on it than I do. I guess my prayer would be: I know you created us and I can only assume that it was for some reason other than the crap we've given back. I'm trusting in your plan to work all this out in a loving way and when it's all over we will look back and sigh with relief that the crap was not in vain.
I believe that I have been spoken to twice in my life by God and have no doubt in the autenticity of what I heard. That was 32 years ago and I have never doubted the existance of God since.

Dan

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#196310 - 12/22/07 07:21 PM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: dancr6]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
It seems all religions boil down to one thing: Love one another. Maybe that's what God really wants, and the rest is just man-made.

*shrug*

Of course being Deist, I can't really say God wants one thing or the other. LOL Hmm...

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#196345 - 12/23/07 03:14 AM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: bardo213]
gravitas Offline
New Here

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 18
Hi - I am on the same journey.

Faith in a moral and ethical code is vital for healing. However, this does not mean faith in a God or Gods, the supernatural, miracles, blah blah blah. It means faith in humanity. For me, this is what the spirit of the Catholic faith represents.

I do not go to Church because I beleive in the common view of God, heaven or hell. I do not. I go to Church because I believe in the example of Jesus - to fight for social justice and love one another. And Church reminds me of my purpose, every week it reminds me. In fact, my favourite book is the God Delusion by professor Richard Dawkins. For me, God is just the spirit of humanity.

However, I have looked to various sources to ease my pain. To be a catholic, you can reject most things, so long as you follow the example of Jesus. The Church is an open Church and you find comfort there. No need to actually beleive in Arks and parting seas and water turning into wine and people walking on water - I don't. I find comfort in the word of Jesus - to devote ones life to social justice and follow the commandments specified by him (do not kill, steal, committ adultery and there was another one). There is no mention of idol worship or God etc, just basically following the law and doing good.

So I focus on this like a mantra. It has helped me a lot and I get comfort from reading the teachings of Jesus, not the miracles, the actual teachings.

Read the story of the young rich man in the new testament. I think that sums up Catholic faith in one verse...

The elements of humanism in catholic faith are the only elements that attract me. When you find something that comforts you and drives you, you will not look back. In any major western city, mass is on every day and it is great to have somewhere to go, sit, listen, meet people, and, disagree with them.

Good luck



Edited by gravitas (12/23/07 03:16 AM)

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#197587 - 01/01/08 08:18 PM Re: to believe or not to believe [Re: gravitas]
froggy12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Marlboro, MA 01752
Someone wrote that God is a projection of the super ego;
someone wrote that God is a state of mind and I wrote that
God is like Cousin Itt, an unknown
but what does it matter what someone said or wrote?
what matters to me is how I feel and so I have to agree with the old Latin song, translated: "where there is love and charity, there you will find God."

froggy

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