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#196430 - 12/23/07 05:09 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
This issue is just so huge. Parts I'm kind of wrestling with (and rambling on about...) are:

Forgiving my abusers (who were 40+ y.o. adults): In the sense I don't want to be consumed by anger and forever see myself as a victim which is often true. Also, I have some insight into the experience of a perpetrator I think. There was a time when I couldn't imagine boundaries or defending myself from unwanted sexual interest by others. I just responded by shutting down in terror, dissociating, expecting more victimization... and I got it. That is a terrifying world! My own sexual feelings were terrifying! Without a clear sense I could choose responsibly to act or not, it felt truly dangerous to others. And children awaken powerful emotions in me. I so fear they will be hurt. I so want to protect them. Or be a child again. It's not a sexual interest, I've never been remotely inappropriate even, but I have (the memory really) all that confusion about closeness, caring, etc. being sexualized, so I do kind of sometimes fear myself around kids. It's weird. I know I could NEVER hurt a child like that. I'd sooner stab myself in the heart! But have to sometimes work at feeling .vs. thinking/knowing I/others are safe.

Does anyone understand this?

So I think the perpetrators are similar but act out their fears by perpetrating. Sometimes. I know there are lots of other types and situations.

Back to forgiving, I wonder about what happened in my perpetrators' lives that they did this to me. Part of me wants to just kill them now and think about it later (though they are surely long dead), and part knows we may have some common ground, as scary as that is to say. I absolutely NO WAY do I excuse their choices, but I know there are no simple solutions here. And this kid was only 15???? Jeez. He didn't even get a chance to make a choice as a adult.

I saw a web site, http://www.childmolestationprevention.org, that made a powerful point. CSA is like a disease. People get it, and spread it. And were treating the effects (the victims) but ignoring the cause (the development of perpetrators). Weve got to learn to identify early people who are at risk of perpetrating. We cant condemn them, stigmatize them and drive them into hiding. They havent hurt anyone yet. So lets REALLY encourage them to seek help before they offend. Lets treat them. Id say, lets make it absolutely free for the asking. Promote it so everyone knows. Applaud their responsible behavior. The savings in missed victimizations would be huge. Treat victims and deal with actual perpetrators too of course but I think wed all agree, by then, its too late.

How bout that? Ken, what do you think?




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#196447 - 12/23/07 08:01 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: LandOfShadow]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
how do we define at risk? is every survivor an at risk person due to past abuse? don't want to go down that road. i guess the way the system works the best way for me to get help is to go out and commit a crime ,then blame it on the fact that i never got help for the abuse i suffered as a child. yeah the system is screwed ,but it's screwd in favor of the wrong people


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#196458 - 12/23/07 08:40 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: evanesence
is every survivor an at risk person due to past abuse?


Yes.

Every survivor needs help.

A very small minority are at risk of abusing kids. Many are at risk of other things, like suicide, drug abuse, contracting STD's, underage pregnancy, etc. The list goes on and on.

It is my belief that every child who is abused and grows up without getting help is a flaw on the system.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196459 - 12/23/07 08:42 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: LandOfShadow]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: LandOfShadow
Treat victims and deal with actual perpetrators too of course but I think wed all agree, by then, its too late.


You made an awesome post, but I disagree with this last line. We don't have enough tax revenue to imprison all sex offenders for the rest of their lives. Most of them are going to get out of prison some day. Therefore, we cannot assume it is ever too late to treat them, for if they don't get treatment while in prison, they pose a huge risk once they get out of prison.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196460 - 12/23/07 08:49 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
i disagree with the last line in your response, flaw on the system? they pose a huge risk with or without treatment,if i'm considered at risk ,then c'mon a convicted perp would sure be more at risk than me! this implies that we are flawed because of our abuse,but everybody says we are not,it don't define us. is survivor becomming a dirty word?


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#196464 - 12/23/07 09:09 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Whoah...I think you really misinterpreted my post, evanesence. What I am saying is that I believe every child who is abused deserves treatment. With that in mind, your last response makes absolutely no sense at all.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196470 - 12/23/07 09:52 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
It is my belief that every child who is abused and grows up without getting help is a flaw on the system. it doesn't say deserves treatment,it says we are all flaws on the system. i'm just trying to make sense of what i read,maybe i misunderstood ,maybe you chose the wrong words to make your point. but we do agree that something needs to be done ,so thats ok with me.


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#196471 - 12/23/07 09:56 PM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Ahhh..I see. The key point of my statement was "and grows up without getting help". The lack of help is, in my eyes, a flaw on the system.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#196483 - 12/24/07 12:25 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: BJK]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
BJK,

By "...but I think wed all agree, by then, its too late."

I just mean that it's too late to prevent a child being abused. Certainly I think sex offenders should be offered treatment options and victims too of course. But it be so much better if this could be prevented.

As far as who's at risk, I think the web site assumes this is a large research question in psychology that's going to develop over time.

And for promotion, that too seems like a difficult problem to get people to come forward and not get labeled a molester or something. I could imagine it being "packaged" very carefully in a positive light, but it seems most difficult.


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#196500 - 12/24/07 09:39 AM Re: Boy, 15, gets prison time for molesting boys [Re: LandOfShadow]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I, and a number of people have been saying for years, that we need primary, secondary and tertiary prevention. Who wouldn't agree that prevention is better than cure?

Primary prevention is preventing the abuse before it occurs. This happens by educating children to be aware and assertive about their rights to be free of unwanted touch. Most abusers will back off from an assertive child. Although some will be forceful, way many more children are abused who say nothing (this is not a victim blaming statement, only an observation from research and many years of working with victims, survivors, and perpetrators.)

Secondary prevention is to help those who have already been victimized from becoming abusers themselves, or abusing themselves through self-defeating/destructive behaviors. Again, not saying that victims invaribly become abusers, but some do. Anything we can do to help them from hurting themselves or others counts as secondary prevention. And yes, it is unfortunate that there are not more funds and resources for survivors.

Tertiary prevention is about helping those who have abused others from abusing more people. If an abuser might hurt a number of people over the years, doesn't it make sense to treat him so he doesn't abuse more people? Unfortunately, we don't know how many abusers are not identified and continue to abuse. Those who are caught and either go to jail or are subject to ever escalating restrictions and conditions are far less likely to continue abusing than those who are not identified and caught.

When I hear of politicians who try to outdo each other to make examples of sex offenders and punish them with more restrictive laws, I wonder where does it becomes counterproductive. Will the majority of victims report abuse by a family member or acquaintance when they know that the person will get a mandatory 25 year to life sentence under Jessica's Law? Or will the victim remain silent? How many abusers will consider eliminating the only witness to their crime rather than face almost certain prison time?

Moving the discussion from the emotional arena to looking at the facts and determining what makes sense is better policy than reacting with pure outrage.

I'm glad to see that people here can disagree without resorting to namecalling or hysteria. It is a complex problem and everyone here has a personal experience with the subject. Thanks for being thoughtful on this difficult subject.

Ken


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