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#195650 - 12/17/07 12:26 PM andy, the Cub Scout.
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I don't know if this is the right forum to post this, but I wouldn't mind anyone's thoughts. Sorry in advance if it's the wrong forum. I just thought of this at work today and wanted to share, but was unaware of where it would fit if I wanted feedback.

andy

***

In the winter of my 5th grade year ('91 or '92 - around the same time as my Avatar, by the way) I was still living with my grandparents, and still fully enmeshed in Cub Scouts. It was that year that my abuse had abruptly stopped, and I was still in that "in between" phase between knowing exactly what happened and being blissfully unaware of what Dad had truly done. I know I missed my dad, and was beginning to feel hurt wondering where he was, because he had suddenly and unexpectedly vanished from my life. I remember I got some sob story, that I don't quite recall, about his disappearance from the other adults in my life, but it never seemed to add up in my little head.

Anyway, I remember one time being at a Cub Scout meeting and we were talking about hypothermia. Being in Minnesota, it was a topic of great importance, I suppose. I remember it so clearly. We were all gathered around my leader's kitchen island/table discussing this topic, and the suggestion was made that one option to rescue someone suffering from hypothermia was to crawl naked into a sleeping bag to provide extra body warmth.

All the kids giggled, as you can imagine, as did I. But for some reason I couldn't stop laughing -- and eventually I ended up becoming almost uncontrollably hyper, and hyperventilating.

I don't remember becoming upset or crying, just extremely hyperactive and laughing uncontrollably -- almost to the point of delusion.

My Scout Leader tried to regain control of the situation, and at some point gave me a paper bag to breathe into. I think, though I'm not certain, that this helped the hyperventilation, but I must've continued laughing and acting crazy. Eventually, she got upset and sent me home.

I remember walking home in the snow and cold (and in an odd side-note, shoplifting some candy from this store -- first time ever stealing), and just being kind of resentful.

Later on she came to my grandparents' and told them what happened. I got a talking-to, I'm sure. I can't quite remember what was said, though, I just see pictures.

I know it was nearly 20 years ago, but...shouldn't have someone wondered what was going on? Why would a child react that way to a lesson on hypothermia?

I guess people asked less questions back then -- or just took it as another kid thing.





_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#195652 - 12/17/07 12:30 PM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: AndyJB2005]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Andy,

My experience is that while some people are now very savvy on abuse issues and can handle them very well, the vast majority of people still don't have a clue. As survivors we can see the danger signs and put it all together, but so many others, who have no training, experience or awareness, still simply don't "get it".

In terms of public awareness there is still so much to do. Until that happens I think cases like yours will continue to pass unnoticed.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#195654 - 12/17/07 12:53 PM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: roadrunner]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I can imagine the embarrassment that you STILL feel about that Andy, even though it was so long ago now. I can imagine how you see the scenario being played out, as if it were>

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#195677 - 12/17/07 03:33 PM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: Hauser]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Andy,

I'm going to share a similar story that I posted here a while back. When I was in 6th grade, I had my first formal sex education in school. It was a class of 30, and when the teacher got to the part about actual intercourse, I completely lost it. I was expecting the rest of the class to laugh along with me, but they didn't. I got sent to the principal's office.

Twenty years ago, there was virtually no information available on sexual abuse. It sucks, I know, but that's just the way things were. If a child was acting out, it simply made him a bad child. No one ever realized that children did the things they did for a reason.

It still gets me that nobody could see what was going on back then.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195760 - 12/18/07 01:23 AM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: BJK]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Alan,

Well, after I turned 10 my dad vanished -- as I said. I never seemed to get a straight answer from adults until I was older as to where he went. I guess that's a good thing, since he was out living in a drunk stupor. Probably homeless, or ... something. I guess a kid shouldn't know that stuff.

To this day I still don't know all the details, and frankly, don't care.

I remember there was only one time between 10 and 13 (I was 11, I think) that he called me. I answered the phone and heard it was him. He was drunk, and he asked what I was wearing in a "sexy" voice. I guess my grandpa heard me talking strangely because he came in the kitchen and took the phone from me -- and sent me to my room. I guess he didn't want me to hear the aftermath. Later that night Grandpa came to my room and talked to me about it. I don't really remember what he said though, but I never did tell him what Dad said to me. I think he knew Dad was drunk, but not what he said. I vaguely remember crying between the call and Grandpa coming up.

I never heard from him after that until I was about 13 -- and very much out of "love" with him. I guess by then I had figured out a tiny bit of information about what happened, but wasn't fully aware of the whole picture, and the...ramifications...I guess is the word.

Then he was on again off again in my life as a teen. By 16 I hated his guts and wanted nothing to do with him. The anger was consuming my life, and me, from the inside. No one knew what happened until I was 20, so no one really questioned him when he *was* around.

When I told at 20, my family was politely skeptical. At first they didn't believe me (real shocker), even though he's crazy as a cat in a bathtub. For some reason they couldn't believe he would do that. My sister asked him one time what his version was. I guess she wanted to cooberate my story. She won't tell me what he said; not sure why.

No one really felt angry at him, that I know of at least. He was never shunned, either. He has never apologized for the abuse, but he has apologized for all the "craziness" his alcoholism has caused. Whatever that means. I don't even know if he's "all there" enough to know what he did. Like I said before, he's pretty whacked out -- and not just because he's a child molester. To date he's pretty much had 2 shock therapy sessions that I know of. He's borderline psychotic, schizo-affective disorder, manic depressive, alcoholic.

So now I see him, and I'm polite. I say hi and make small talk. I answer the e-mails he sends, and once in a while when the phone rings, but keep myself distanced. I'm open to dialogs when/if he wants to and is ready/sane enough, but I'm not expecting it. It's on him to start it. I'm not even sure he remembers what happened, and if he does, maybe he's not mentally capable of knowing it was wrong.

Anyway, sorry to go on so long. There's so much to say. I guess it's getting better though. My sister is now distrustful of him, although not for the same reasons, I don't think. Years after I told, Mom said that she was sorry it happened to me and that she felt bad she married someone like him. I guess I can't blame them for not knowing what to say. It's a hard nut to crack.

Two years or so ago I had to let go of my anger towards him. It was ruling my life, and ruining it. It's messed up a heck of a lot already, and I'm only now starting to clean it all up. I'm pushing 30 and ...well that's another post.

One more thing: If there's one thing that gives me hope, it's that my aunt said he confided in her one night, saying sadly, "My son hates me."

I can't help but feeling guilt about that. I really don't hate him (anymore). I feel bad for him, and sad. I feel like a chance at a relationship has passed. I just don't KNOW him now, through adult eyes! But who knows... [/end ranting]

***

Bryan,

That story is so uncanny. I thought, when writing this, that maybe you guys would think me weird that I was laughing instead of bawling at the trigger. I guess I laughed because at the time I didn't even think it WAS abuse. I didn't even think in those terms. So, I can't really say.



_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#195764 - 12/18/07 06:33 AM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: AndyJB2005]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Wow.

Andy? So.........you're willing to forgive him aren't you? Am I correct in this? I think that is amazing.


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#195775 - 12/18/07 07:28 AM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: Hauser]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6317
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Andy,

You gave him so many chances...even after he tore-up his parenting card by sexually abusing you.

Every boy wants a dad. I'm so sorry yours hurt you.

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

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#195777 - 12/18/07 08:13 AM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: Hauser]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1242
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Hauser
Andy? So.........you're willing to forgive him aren't you? Am I correct in this? I think that is amazing.


Alan,

I wouldn't say forgive...I think just more of a cease fire. For myself, not him. For my own sanity, so I don't completely rot inside -- which, in my anger, was where I was headed.

It's OK Robbie. Thanks for the thoughts. \:\)

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#195823 - 12/18/07 03:37 PM Re: andy, the Cub Scout. [Re: AndyJB2005]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Andy,

I agree that too often adults see kids like kids, not as people with issues, without voice, and looking for happiness. I would be sad and neurotic, but that was another reason for my dad and mom to say I have to be punished. They did not look deeper. I think now they change and understand more today, but the only adults I talk to about abuse are ither therapists or male survivors.

Take care,
Alexey

_________________________
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--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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