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#195118 - 12/13/07 05:44 PM .
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
///


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 02:12 PM)

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#195200 - 12/14/07 08:45 AM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Sorry about all your difficulties lynch, while we both come from very different backgrounds (I am "gay" by the way, in case you didn't discover that elsewhere on the board), I know what you are describing.

The only thing I can tell you is that I have been gradually changing my attitude about what goes on inside me with that "little guy" who's ashamed, confused, and hurting very deeply. He's dealing with some very adult feelings and he desperately needs help.

There's something you said that I would like to comment briefly on if that's okay.


Originally Posted By: lynchmob212001
I just want to move on and forget about it and think to myself that is in the past not the present and it does not depict my future and Iam the creator of my own character and thoughts as well as my actions and the outcome I bring that influence my life everyday. I still feel like im 8 all over again.

I honestly don't think that forgetting about it and moving on are an option for any of us. I think that is what causes it to fester and eat us up inside. This might sound ridiculous right now, but the desire to forget and move on is sort of like abandoning that confused child inside of you. If you're like most of us, that child is feeling very ashamed and guilty for what went on, and if you abandon him he is going to stay that way.

Please don't mistake this for preaching or anything unpleasant like that. I am just sharing with you what I have learned during my own personal journey to recovery, and I think most of the guys here would agree with what I have said.

Best of luck,
Craig

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#195208 - 12/14/07 11:07 AM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: cbfull]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
lynch,

One of the most important things I learned on my own healing journey was that there's a huge difference between "knowing" things and actually "believing" them.

Take the issue of guilt. Many of us felt - or were told - that the abuse was all our own fault: we wanted it, we liked it, we kept coming back, we didn't tell anyone, blah blah blah. So for years we have blamed ourselves, hated ourselves, felt worthless over this, and so on.

Then one fine day we read Mike Lew (for example) and discover no, it wasn't our fault after all; in fact, it can NEVER be the child's fault! What a powerful message. And true too. It makes sense. We were innocent! We know it.

But lynch, my friend, that doesn't mean we believe it yet. There's a huge difference between what we know in our head and what we believe in our heart, and the old false lessons we have been carrying have been there for years - they're not going to go away because all of a sudden we see the truth. It takes time and work for us to take in emotionally what we know intellectually.

I too have a pile of books laying around, and I still accumulate them and learn from them. But what I do now that I didn't do for a long time is this - I try to work towards believing this stuff and trying to trust in it as tools I can actually use as I rebuild my life.

For example, I KNOW I was innocent and the abuse wasn't my fault; I did nothing I should be ashamed about. I get it ... really, I do! \:\)

But do I? Am I prepared to believe in that knowledge and USE as a tool that can help me? For example, do I tell doctors I am a survivor when I go for an appointment? Have I gotten into therapy so I can get the professional guidance I need? Have I disclosed to those close to me who would support me if they knew?

I just throw this out as an idea and a question: what can you do to take what you have learned and actually USE it? Which areas are there where you feel you still can't do that? Perhaps those are the areas where you might benefit from some of the ideas I just mentioned.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#195556 - 12/16/07 04:28 PM Re: [Re: roadrunner]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
...


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 02:08 PM)

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#195561 - 12/16/07 05:07 PM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: lynchmob212001

the definition of insanity is doing something over and over and getting the same result and no change.

This definition is 12 step lingo. Not the true definition of insanity.

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

Main Entry: in·san·i·ty
Pronunciation: in-'san-&t-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -ties
1 a : a deranged state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder (as schizophrenia) and usually excluding such states as mental retardation, psychoneurosis, and various character disorders b : a mental disorder
-------------------------------------------
I haven't started the inner child work yet, but I can tell you my experience to this day. I make progress very fast then get into a funk like I am this afternoon and then things get a little better. I spent 25 years in my own little world and now I'm in the real world. Stuff comes up from the past all the time I just don't react to it like I used to. I still get bummed out but I don't have the depression like I used to.
Sounds to me like you just need a break.
My background 3rd generation alcoholic home 6 abusers and drug and alcohol abuse history. It's real tough sometimes just to get out of bed but I do it anyway. Last night I had a wonderful time at a Christmas party "a first for me" today as the day went on I got in this funk and can't seem to shake it.
I know it will pass so I'll just ride it out.
Change will come when you are ready you can't just force it. Took me 2 years in therapy just to talk about my experiences. and I have read all sorts of psychology, self help books and other stuff. What I found is I gained a lot of knowledge but didn't know how to apply it to my life. I needed help and the time needed to be right for me to accept it. Trying to do too much too soon can be counterproductive and thats my experience.
I hope you find some peace, and when you do enjoy it!






Edited by GateKPR4 (12/16/07 05:44 PM)
_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
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#195577 - 12/16/07 06:31 PM Re: [Re: GateKPR4]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
...


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 02:08 PM)

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#195613 - 12/17/07 12:36 AM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
LandOfShadow Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Quote:
I tend to make longer eye contact than normal, I find myself flirting with them, but I don't feel attracted to them one bit at all but as friends.


I'm sorry to hear about this for you, lynch. It sounds like a kind of unconscious re-enactment of trauma that has been really horrible for me. It's hard for me to deal with because it is so unconscious. Some of this improved when I started owning my own sexual feelings, which I was disowning because I saw them as utterly dangerous and frightening.

I was quite neglected as a child as desperately wanted the attention and guidance of older males. The abuse really confused sex with just friendship, attention and non-sexual closeness. I wonder if that could be true for you, that somehow if you want compagnionship, friendship with these men, then you will have to be sexual to get it. That has become a seriously long-term confusing thing for me I haven't ever been sure about.

_________________________
Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer
Liberté

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you
Freedom

Paul Eluard

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#195665 - 12/17/07 02:25 PM Re: [Re: LandOfShadow]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
...


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 02:08 PM)

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#195939 - 12/19/07 01:13 PM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Lynch,

I can certainly understand your eagerness to be well, but you have probably figured out by now that it can't be done with haste. Afterall, this is a very, very big challenge for anyone to decide to overcome, and big goals take time, patience, planning, and most of all, courage. It is clear that you have the courage part under control, and you deserve a congratulations for that.

There is one thing in your last paragraph that caught my attention. It sounds like you might be spending a lot of time comparing yourself to other people in an unhealthy way. Don't get me wrong, this can be a very healthy thing, if you don't internalize it. Comparing yourself to others can be an instant sentence to depression. What I mean by unhealthy is like telling yourself that you're inadequate because of certain qualities that you see in someone else, but are not one of your specialties.

Does this make any sense?

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#195943 - 12/19/07 01:54 PM Re: [Re: cbfull]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
///


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 02:09 PM)

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#195954 - 12/19/07 02:46 PM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: lynchmob212001
So if I was looking up to a man that has wisdom and is powerful and shows that he has been a great influence in my life and I want to portray some of his qualities is a road to depression?...

To answer your question as described, I would say no, that kind of admiration is very healthy indeed.

What would be unhealthy is looking at someone as having something you don't and for whatever reason you can likely never get. It's sort of like envy or jealousy, but it can be about any trait or characteristic that makes us feel deficient or inadequate in some way.

One of my close friends told me that a neighbor friend of his was given a very flattering "Thank you" for something he did, but it was something that he did just because it seemed like the right thing to do. My friend took this very personal and asked me, "How come no one ever thanks me like that?" He was actually starting to compare himself to his neighbor and feeling more and more inadequate. If you don't realize that this can be consciously stopped it can get way out of hand. Every little thing about someone else can make you feel miserable.

Let me know if this makes any sense to you.

Craig

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#195956 - 12/19/07 02:59 PM Re: [Re: cbfull]
bardo213 Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
...


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 02:09 PM)

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#195983 - 12/19/07 09:44 PM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
Army Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 90
Loc: California
Hey Lynch,

Just reading through your posts today. Looking from a bird's eye perspective, you seem to have a good handel on things. You know what you want for your life,ie.. a great woman and some male friends. You have started getting that. It just could have all been eaiser without the abuse.

That's what stinks. Your moving right along and then, you stare at a guy too long... Ya know, your intention is not to mean anything by it. So count on that. Its just part of who you are and men that don't get that... you probably don't really need in your life. What I am saying is some of our recovery is learning to cope with what was left from the abuse, that really we only see, most others don't even notice. The battle is in our mind not theirs.

Rest in who you are becoming and who you want to be. You decide that, not what others think or what we think they perceive. Relax and give yourself a break. Your a great guy and can be a great friend.

Blessings,

ARMY

_________________________
07 Peebbles WOR Alummni

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#196041 - 12/20/07 01:03 PM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: Army]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Lynch,

My 2 cents:

I started to notice during my T sessions that I had much difficulty talking and disclosing any personal info with my T. I always wanted to use some old and not mine patterns of phrases to somehow move the conversation forward. PLUS I started noticing myself noticing these inner fight between choosing the "right" word or phrase do sescrie anything.

That made me think that in most of my life, when I am in stuations that don't allow me to think and wait, I use lots of patterns of how to behave. These include talking to my parents, boss, coworkers, girls, strangers, professionals, etc... I could hardly evaluate what triggered me to say this or to did that, and I got to a conclusion that I really fear to face MY ISSUES, and my DEEP-ROOTED feeling of INCOMPETENCE, LONELINESS and FRUSTRATION before any uncrtain situation.

The next step in understanding this problem was my T who said that A THERAPIST'S WORK IS MOSTLY ACCURATELY WOULD BE CALLED WORKING WITH PEOPLE'S BARRIERS AND DEFENCE THEY PUT FOR THEMSELVES NOT TO GET IN CONTACT WITH THEIR OWN ISSUES. So my idea is that the work to be done is basically consists of seeing your own fear f the issues you have, and stemming from it inability to try to solve them, and creating a life-long models of self defence.

You can find parts of this idea in different publications: Mike Lew's, Ken Singer, etc.

First of all, concentrate on how you speak to you T, what you feel, what efforts you put in transferring to them the info you would like them to know.

Best.
Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#196047 - 12/20/07 01:16 PM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Hey Lynch,

I totally understand that you need to focus on one issue at a time.

If it makes you feel any better, I have recently realized that I have a similar problem making long eye contact with hetero men. For me, it's like I can only feel acceptance from them if I can somehow sexualize the new friendship. I had no idea how bad this was until recently at a bar/restaurant when a stranger shouted across two tables, "Hey, is there some reason why you keep looking over here?" He was not nice about it all. It was incredibly unpleasant. It was certainly an eye opener, I hadn't realized how much I stare at good-looking hetero guys. In retrospect, I'm glad it happened (even thought there are better ways to approach something like that) because it made me take a hard look at what my body language might be saying.

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#196082 - 12/20/07 05:23 PM Re: [Re: cbfull]
bardo213 Offline
Guest

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 811
....


Edited by bardo213 (06/21/13 02:10 PM)

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#196219 - 12/21/07 11:46 PM Re: Discoverying our past? [Re: bardo213]
Army Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 90
Loc: California
Hey Lynch,

Glad to have helped. The stuggle you have has been my life for a long time. My Dad perped me and messed me up so I didn't trust other guys. It has taken a long time, but now I actually have some guy friends. So hang in there and don't stop. The relationships of having some guy friends is worth going past your triggers. Their friendship brings great balance to your life, and takes the power of the abuse out of control, and eventually the triggers stop. One more thing, don't think about everything so much when your with the guys, just enjoy being. Being with them, being one of them, being you... a guy worth being with.

Best wishes your friend,

ARMY

_________________________
07 Peebbles WOR Alummni

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