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#194928 - 12/12/07 02:19 AM book on predators
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
does anybody know of any books that talk about the mind of a predator. I have found great emotional relief from understanding their point of view.


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#194947 - 12/12/07 08:44 AM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
That is a central focus of my book which is now in the editing process. Will hopefully be published in 2008.


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#194977 - 12/12/07 01:20 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: rickochey
I have found great emotional relief from understanding their point of view.


Rick,

I'm truly not being sarcastic or confrontational. I'm just wondering how and why you get relief from knowing this?

I'm afraid that I'd read or learn how and why I had a target on me...or learn about things I could have done to knock the perps off their tracks...or learn that my vulnerability was somewhat in my control.

Right now the idea of learning what goes on with them scares the shnick out of me.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#194989 - 12/12/07 02:35 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Hey Rick!

There's a book out there called "Not Monsters: Analyzing the Stories of Child Molesters." It is by Dr. Pamela Schultz. You can find it on amazon or perhaps at some books stores, but I doubt it's in any libraries.

It's a compelling book, but may be triggering to some survivors who don't have that certain attraction. It doesn't go into detail about their offenses, but they do tell their stories. Dr. Schultz worked with them in the prison system and during mandated therapy groups and what it is is basically a collection of the stories they wrote for her.

After the story she talks about them in a psychological context -- "analyzing" them. It really goes into how they got to be in those situations -- or more so, how they put themselves there. That's the main focus: how abusers became abusers. It's really sad some of their stories, and it shows how things can really spiral out of control for normal people.

It's worth a read if you're interested in the other side of the coin.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#194992 - 12/12/07 02:57 PM Re: book on predators [Re: AndyJB2005]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
Thanks for both replys..

I understand your confusion on why I want to read "their point of view" is I read an article by Dr Laura Sch... called "Evil Among Us" talks about how "sex with children is harmless' she talked about how they think and want to control their victims. FOR ME..it is a great release of guilt, shame, adn put it back onto him where it belongs... the more I understand why he did hat he did the more I am not taking irresponsibility of his perversion.

thanks for the concern as I feel you really do care.


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#194997 - 12/12/07 03:57 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
I just ordered a book called " why men molest, something like that As I was reading a few example I was getting extremely angry ,,, that is so awesome that it is drawing out my anger.... Thanks everyone..


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#195008 - 12/12/07 06:07 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
I think reading books of that nature is WAY down the road for me. I've got enough on my plate figuring out myself.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#195013 - 12/12/07 07:20 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
Here is the article by DR Laura.. she is against sex abuse. please do not read this if you are not ready...

http://www.tegenwicht.org/13_rbt_eng/laura_evil.htm


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#195032 - 12/12/07 10:08 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Gentlemen,

I read the article linked above with interest. I find it despicable that such a movement is afoot in this country. Anyone who believes such monstrous drivel put out in the name of the mental health community need only spend a few days in company of the men on this site, or better yet, go back in time with me to the weeks and months following my own personal crisis when the memories hit like a freight train. It is beyond me how this kind of drivel can be pawned off as legitimate research.

That aside, I'd like to express my thanks to rickochey for bringing this to our attention, and also state that while MaleSurvivor agrees with Dr. Laura that this study is abhorrent and bogus, we do not necessarily condone her statements regarding homosexuality contained in the article.

Please read the article if you wish, but we'd like to ask you to keep any comments regarding the article to comments about the study and not divert this thread to discussion of her other statements. If someone wishes to discuss the merits or lack thereof of her other statements please feel free to begin a new thread in unmoderated.



Edited by walkingsouth (12/12/07 10:12 PM)
_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#195038 - 12/12/07 11:20 PM Re: book on predators [Re: WalkingSouth]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
I read the article. My blood pressure is up....my head is spinning. But I'm thinking...this might be real and a true issue to be dealt with in other countries...but not here in the USA yet. Then I think...but where does that leave the children of places like Holland? It does not matter to me that they are in other countries...this crap has got to stop!

If there were ever a worldly condition that may trigger the second coming, the normalizing of CSA is likely it! And then it does not matter what law or social morey says adult-child sex is harmless...THE law will be enforced and there will be no hope for the pedophile and NAMBLA and that "progressive gang."

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#195042 - 12/13/07 12:19 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
I am glad to see you guys read the article. See when I read it it opened up my mind to how my predator started to view me and how my beliefs changed to protect my self...

God bless all of you and a speedy recovery.


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#195141 - 12/13/07 07:54 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown

Right now the idea of learning what goes on with them scares the shnick out of me.


For me, learning how a predator thinks was a key part of learning why I'm different.

The fact that I understand how a predator thinks is extremely frightening at times.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195143 - 12/13/07 08:07 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
evanesence Offline
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Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
if people understand it then can somebody please tell me why? why do they do it? it's hard to believe there is an answer that will satisfy any survivor.


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#195145 - 12/13/07 08:10 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
My own experience with this is that my T has worked with both perps and survivors. I was set free of the shame, guilt, and fear that was put on me by my perps by learning how they thought and acted.
What they do and how they work. However! She did not disclose any of this information until I was ready to hear it. when I misunderstood what happened and why she helped me to understand.
This new information literally set me free. My life has not been the same since that night. I'm free, and freedom is a wonderful thing \:\)
I still have lots of emotion to work through and things trigger me but I write about them now or talk to someone instead of keeping it inside. I have to relearn life, emotion, experiences, everything has changed, its all new.

This has been my experience and I can only speak for me. Due to the nature of my abuse and my experience this information was my ticket to freedom. I can't change my past but now I don't have to live in it..
peace
Rick

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#195150 - 12/13/07 08:28 PM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
"This study is the first step on the road toward normalizing pedophilia - just as homosexuality has been mainstreamed, to the point where tolerance is no longer sufficient: We now have to "embrace" it."

uh... that implies homosexuality is on the same level as pedophilia. how dumb.


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#195154 - 12/13/07 08:38 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Jarrad]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: Jarrad

uh... that implies homosexuality is on the same level as pedophilia. how dumb.


I couldn't help but notice that the article played off homosexuality in an extremely negative light.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195162 - 12/13/07 08:52 PM Re: book on predators [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: evanesence
if people understand it then can somebody please tell me why? why do they do it? it's hard to believe there is an answer that will satisfy any survivor.


You're right, becaust it is almost impossble to describe the feelings of a predator without sounding empathetic. I'll try.

There is an emptiness inside of a predator that can only be filled in one way. They must face extreme emotional anguish in order to fill that emptiness, and some people are just not strong enough to do that. The result is that they reach for temporary fixes to fill that emptiness. Some people turn to drugs, alcohol, or other short term compulsive behaviors. Some people become predators.

Maybe someone like Ken can fill in some of the holes here, but I believe there are two distinct types of predators, as well as a number of predators who fit the criteria of both types to varying degrees. There are the ones who do not feel any emotion, so they are incapable of understanding how their actions will hurt the people they are preying upon. And then there are the predators who actually feel that they are doing what they do to children because they love them. This second type of predator does not know what love truly is. What they feel when they abuse children is something that resembles love in a distorted way, but the fact is that these predators are actually co-dependent upon children because they have the desire to feel loved. Oftentimes, they do not know the difference between love and sex. They feel that the ultimate way to get a child to love them is to give the child sexual favors. All they ask for in return is love. But of course, this co-dependent love will not completely fill the emptiness they have inside.

It's sad, scary, and disgusting. However, at the same time, I take solace in one minor fact regarding my abuser, my mother. I have had the pleasure of loving a child and having that child love me in return without any co-dependent factors involved. The love is unconditional both ways. My mother will never experience this, so even though I've been through a lot of turmoil because of her, it's hard for me to not feel pity for anyone who has never experienced that joy.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195170 - 12/13/07 11:16 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
thanks Bryan i think your right but i also believe that there is at least one more type or predator,the most dangerous ,because they do feel emotion and lots of times knew love themselves,but they dont seek want or need love to them the kid is like an object not even a person,i can only speak from my experience ,and he was like an addict but his drug was innocence,it wasn't about love or power it was about stealing my innocence,lots of guys ask,why me ?it's because we were innocent,not weak or somehow flawed. he could have gone out and paid a fifteen year old for the sex stuff ,but thats not what he wanted,a kid is like a sponge and only so much can be wrung out of it ,and like any drug it takes more over time to get the same buzz. as it progressed i became less and less innocent,when the sex didn't satisfy him any longer he used pain ,most kids are as innocent of pain as they are of sex.but the sponge only holds so much sooner or later it runs dry ,thats one reason most offenders have mutiple victims ,the sad part is what happens to the kid when he can't provide the buzz anymore? if he's lucky he can just walk away ,if not he gets replaced and he just disappears,like the hornbeck kid in the news ,what would have happend to him ?his abuser had found another younger kid to take his place ,once the younger kid was trained was he just gonna let shawn go? that kids days were numbered for sure.these are the ones that don't get caught because they don't leave any witnesses behind.


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#195172 - 12/14/07 12:17 AM Re: book on predators [Re: evanesence]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
I don't think pedophiles can be classified in little boxes. Each one is different and separate in his/her story. I don't think there are "sets" of pedophiles, just like there's no sets of victims. No two are the same, but I think there are generalized similarities.

Some pedophiles have said they have felt it since childhood, others "turn to" it, like Bryan said.

We can't really know what happens for them to turn out that way -- especially when we're unwilling to learn from them and those that work with them. As hard as it is, and as much as we want to punish them, I think it's important to talk to them and ask the hard questions -- and listen open-mindedly -- if we hope to stamp out abuse in the reality.

So in my opinion that's why these books are important. \:\)

Hugs!

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#195181 - 12/14/07 04:05 AM Re: book on predators [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
evanesence:

It's impossible for me to beleive that the person you describe is capable of feeling emotions like love, sorrow, regret, guilt, or empathy. They may put on a good act, but inside I see only emptyness.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#195311 - 12/14/07 08:47 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
he loved me till i said no


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#195317 - 12/14/07 10:20 PM Re: book on predators [Re: evanesence]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ken Singer's new book will be an important perspective on ways survivors can deal with memories of the abusers and the effects of abuse. I don't know of anything else out there that compares to what he's doing in this book.

Material on abusers is available in professional literature and also in a few handbooks for survivors, but one book that focuses on this is Scout's Honor: Sexual Abuse in America's Most Trusted Institution by Patrick Boyle (1994). Boyle looks at the history of sexual abuse in the Boy Scout movement by focusing on the activities of one particular offender, Carl Bittenbender, and his victims. He also works in material concerning other offenders to see how typical Bittenbender's actions were.

This book can be very triggery, as you can imagine. I wanted to read it because I was abused in the Scouts, but it was difficult to get through it. I didn't realize until I was about halfway through it that I really was not in a safe place to do this kind of thing yet.

If you feel a need to get into this kind of stuff, okay, but do be careful. It can be a real mindfucker, and if you feel you're getting ambushed every page I would say let it go for awhile and wait for Ken's book.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#195331 - 12/15/07 07:01 AM Re: book on predators [Re: roadrunner]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Evanesence,

What I'm about to say here might get extremely triggery, so please proceed with caution.

The hardest part about this whole recovery process for many of us was coming to the realization that our perps did not, in fact, love us. My perp was my mother, and the day that I realized that everything she ever did for me was for her own self-gratification was very a very miserable day.

It really needs to be said even though I know it will hurt. Your perp didn't love you. He's not capable of feeling love. He fed off of your willingness to do things for him. His twisted mind believed that since you were willing, you loved him. He used that to replace the fact that he could never love another person.

I firmly believe that anyone who is capable of abusing a child is not capable of feeling love.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#195347 - 12/15/07 09:12 AM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Passable triggers

My new understanding of predators.
Predators are like leaches they just attach to you and feed off you until you pull them off, die, or you have nothing left to give. I don't think I'm different or special and there was this great plan to choose me. There was not! There was opportunity and the predator took it.

If I jump in a pond and there are leaches in it most likely I will get one attached to me. predators are no different than leaches.

The pond looks innocent and inviting from the crystal mirror reflection on top but underneath lies the danger. We can't see it but its there.
I know this sounds cold as hell but its the truth as I understand it.
Peace
Rick

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#195360 - 12/15/07 10:12 AM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
First of all, I need to say that the reason why I participate so actively in discussions such as these is because I firmly beleive that understanding predators is the most important and most effective way we have of protecting our children.

Rick, you came pretty dang close to hitting the nail on the head, but I would like to disagree in one area. This might be a little difficult to process in a positive way at first, and it might even trigger you somewhat. So, again, I say to proceed with caution.

I think that there was something special about you that attracted the predator. It is nothing you did. It is who you are. You are a good person who is deserving of the love and affection of others. Unfortunately, the "love and affection" you received ended up being for the sexual gratification of a predator instead of the healthy nurturing of a mentor.

I think that victims and survivors tend to have low opinions of themselves because they feel that such a negative outward display will deflect such negative attention. The fact is, good people attract all kinds of attention...good and bad. Unfortunately, when we are children, we don't have the tools to repel the negative attention...and when the negative attention is all we receive, we sometimes end up craving it.

A typical predator doesn't just choose any child to abuse. A predator looks for innocence and purity. He looks for that which he lacks. He looks to the child to replace that for him. And since a child can never replace the emptiness he feels inside, it can only provide a temporary reprieve, abusing children becomes like a drug with addictive qualities. The predator must abuse again and again to satisfy his "needs", and when the child grows too old to provide the predator with the innocence and purity he desires, the predator moves on to the next innocent child.

Rick, the fact that you may have possessed the qualities that a predator looks for in a child is something to be proud of because it is those exact same qualities that would make a healthy person want to love and nurture you. Those qualities make you a good person no matter what evil they resulted in. You simply found yourself in the wrong place at that wrong time, and that is truly horrible.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#195393 - 12/15/07 01:34 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Per Larry's comments (full disclosure here... he's my editor for the book) I am pasting part of a chapter on abusers to give another perspective to this discussion.

Please note that this is still being edited and not ready for publication, though we hope to be done by the first of the year.

Ken




The Adult in Authority

As children, many of us were told to listen to people in positions of authority. The teacher, police officer, sports coach, instructors of music, dance, martial arts, clergy, scout leaders, and babysitters, are all given “in loco parentis” responsibility by parents. That is, they have custody and control of a child for the duration of the activity. During that time, the child is expected to listen, obey and follow the instructions of the adult.

Sometimes the activity involves direct physical contact. The dance instructor, martial arts teacher, and sometimes sports coaches, are generally permitted to touch or position the child’s body to practice the right form or movement. A young adult Tae Kwan Do instructor who had been put on probation for statutory rape involving three fourteen-year-old girls complained bitterly in my offenders’ group one night that he lost his job at the martial arts school where he worked. He said that his boss was aware of his offense and although he had only adult and young children students (no teens because of his crime), the complaints of a parent who was aware of his offense history caused him to lose his job. The boss was particularly concerned that the instructor would be touching students to demonstrate correct position, and he could not take a risk that someone might complain about inappropriate touch, whether actual or misinterpreted.

Another man I worked with was a part-time piano teacher. He had no legitimate reason to touch his students, except possibly to position their hands on the keyboard. However, he sat next to them on the piano bench, and with several students over the years he would “accidentally” brush his hand against their genital region. When the boy did not challenge or rebuff him, he grew bolder and would deliberately fondle his penis over his clothing until he had an erection. Several he eventually touched inside their pants. His reasoning was that if a boy told him to stop he would do so immediately, but if he said nothing this meant he was consenting to what the teacher was doing.

Molested by an aunt when he was a young boy, he remembered that he felt closeness and comfort, along with pleasurable feelings, when she took naps with him and fondled his penis over his clothing. He forgot about this until he was arrested and in treatment. The payoff for him was a distorted sense of how he should nurture his students. Married and sexually active with his wife, he did not see the abuse of his students as harmful, or even sexual in the way he was with his wife. There was no orgasm or masturbation fantasy with the children.

These examples are of men who have adequate social skills. The martial arts instructor was quite popular and had a number of girlfriends in his adolescence and young adulthood. The piano instructor was married to a very attractive woman and had been in many age-appropriate sexual relationships over the years prior to his marriage. These were men who did not “need” to turn to children or under-aged teens to gain sexual gratification. So why did they knowingly engage in sexual behaviors with people who were inappropriate FOR THEM and under age?

The martial arts instructor, who was 21 at the time, had persuaded the three fourteen-year-old girls to come to his apartment, where he gave them alcohol and they had group sex. He knew how old they were, and he also knew that giving them alcohol was illegal, yet he proceeded to have sex with them and watched as two of the girls had sex with each other. Unlike many sexual offenses, this made sense from the traditional standpoint of what we understand sex to be about, sexual excitement that usually leads to orgasm. When his offense is considered from the standpoint of emotional needs, it becomes clearER that this behavior was motivated by power and excitement.

Because he had a car, money, alcohol, and was considered to be a personable and good-looking young man, the girls were “willing” victims. They apparently enjoyed the attention of this high-status young man. He was caught because in the weeks that followed the incident, the girls bragged about the sex acts at school and someone reported it to a guidance counselor; the disclosure led to the martial arts instructor’s arrest.

These offenders had good social skills and plenty of opportunity to be sexual with appropriate partners. In the case of abusive clergy, particularly priests, we often find less social-skills competency and a lack of a legitimate partner for sexual expression. The classic – almost stereotypical – “pedophile priest” is someone who generally went from high school to seminary, had little or no dating experience and was forbidden to marry or engage in sexual activities with others, regardless of age or gender. Some research indicates that the priesthood has often been a place of refuge for xxxxSOME young men who are very conflicted about their sexuality. Seminaries generally do not deal with issues of sexuality, and the vows of celibacy make it difficult for troubled or confused priests to discuss their feelings and fantasies with anyone in the order.

Some years ago I worked with a middle-aged priest who had been abused in childhood. One of the reasons he became a priest was because he felt confused about his sexuality, the abuse having caused him ambivalence over his attraction to males. Although he did not give in to his feelings towards some of the younger priests who were attractive to him, nor to any of the children or alter boys he worked with, he engaged in sex with young male prostitutes (always of legal age, he believed) when he vacationed in the Dominican Republic and several other Third-World countries.

These encounters were opportunities for him to be sexual with others. He also confessed some time into the therapy that he once fondled his teen nephew. He felt terribly guilty for going into the boy’s bed one night when he slept over, hugging him and fondling the boy’s penis. Though the boy was awake and stopped the abuse after a few minutes by rolling over on his stomach, nothing was said. Now, 20 or more years later, the priest wanted to apologize and make amends if he could. Since the nephew, now in his 30s and married, had never said anything to his uncle about that incident, the priest struggled over making an apology but wondering if the nephew had totally forgotten about it.

In looking at what needs this behavior may have reflected, the priest concluded that he was looking to nurture his nephew at the time of the abuse. In hindsight this made no sense, but he realized that the desire for closeness with another person, denied to him by his chosen profession, had become twisted in his mind at the time and had been played out when he got into bed with the boy and fondled him. The priest, as the piano teacher, wanted to replay the nurturing scenario that was sexualized in their childhoods.


Emotional Needs

In looking at the list of 20+ emotional needs people have (see Chapter X), it does not appear that there are many needs that apply to sexual abusers besides a distortion of nurturance, intimacy, power and perhaps attention or validation. To better understand this misuse of legitimate needs, consider the common example of eating when you are not really hungry. People, particularly those who are overweight, will often turn to food to meet other needs. Bored? Lonely? Disappointed? Hurt? Frustrated? These are feelings we all have from time to time. If we don’t recognize that the feeling is there, and that we have a number of choices to meet the needs arising from these feelings, we may resort to eating when we are really not hungry in an attempt to address the unpleasant feelings and satisfy unmet needs.

Consider now the person who exposes himself. If that person runs naked onto the field during the Superbowl, it is likely that he wants attention. Same for the woman who flashes her breasts from a balcony during Mardi Gras in New Orleans. How about the man who subtly exposes his penis at the end of a row of books in the college library so a female student sees him? Or what of the man who pulls down his sweatpants in front of a group of young teen girls at a bus stop?

Each of these situations may legally be the same kind of sexual offense (lewdness or indecent exposure, for example), but the motives and needs of the offenders may be very different. The man in the college library admitted to me that he had done this to about 200 different women over a period of more than fifteen years. What did he hope to accomplish, I asked him? He said he had a fantasy that some woman would see his erect penis and want to have sex with him. Asked how this was working out, he admitted that he was “0 for 200”. This illustrates the difference between surface or conscious needs (companionship, touch), and what is likely going on subconsciously (need for attention and power).

The person who streaks the Superbowl probably has no belief that his behavior will result in him having sex with someone. It is highly probable that his need for attention is so powerful that the guarantee of an arrest and fine (punishment) is secondary to his need for attention. The woman who flashes her breasts in New Orleans during Mardi Gras is less likely to be arrested and her motives may be more related to the party culture going on – she is probably looking for attention as well.

Exposing oneself in front of a group of schoolgirls will not result in sexual contact. It is very unlikely that any of them would go off with the culprit. The more realistic needs being met are power and attention. Rather than being possibly admired and getting a date, as the college exposer hoped for, the man at the school bus stop will likely be greeted with screams of disgust and perhaps derision. The payoff for him is probably power or attention and it may be manifested in scaring or revolting the girls.

Sometimes, people who expose themselves are looking for the power of causing upset or fear in others. This person may be more interested in hurting or humiliating women than in attention or the unlikely possibility of a date. Exposers who seek to shock or embarrass women or children may likely be expressing hostility and anger rather than looking for sex.


Pedophiles and Hebophiles (or Ephebophiles)

However, there are other motivators for abusers. Some are primarily or exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children. Their sexual interest, if exclusive, (that is, they are only attracted to young children, not age-appropriate people) may result in a diagnostic label as a “pedophile”. (For a comprehensive de>

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#195401 - 12/15/07 03:33 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
evanesence Offline
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Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
is there one that is all three? do all type ones become type three? i saw each of them in him. but as it progressed each one disappeard till he was just a three.


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#195405 - 12/15/07 04:06 PM Re: book on predators [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
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Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Evanesence: the appearance of type I and type II in your abuser was likely the fact that you were being groomed by him.

Ken: If I may make one critique about what you wrote, I don't think the part about "grooming" is extensive enough. I think an emphasis should be put on what lengths a prospective predator would go through to get a child to trust him/her into allowing sexual contact. I know it might be a little bit too late for that, given the book is in the editing stage, but it seems to me that most people with whom I have spoken about this type of behavior who are more predisposed to become the second type of predator I detailed in my previous post get just as much (if not more) of a thrill from the grooming stages of their relationship with a boy as they do from any actual sexual contact.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195412 - 12/15/07 04:33 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Ken,

Thanks. I copied this text to my player and wil read it soon.

I'll also consider obtaining your book as son as it is released.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#195458 - 12/15/07 11:49 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
GateKPR4 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: BJK

Rick, you came pretty dang close to hitting the nail on the head, but I would like to disagree in one area. This might be a little difficult to process in a positive way at first, and it might even trigger you somewhat. So, again, I say to proceed with caution.
I think that there was something special about you that attracted the predator. It is nothing you did. It is who you are. You are a good person who is deserving of the love and affection of others. Unfortunately, the "love and affection" you received ended up being for the sexual gratification of a predator instead of the healthy nurturing of a mentor.

I think that victims and survivors tend to have low opinions of themselves because they feel that such a negative outward display will deflect such negative attention. The fact is, good people attract all kinds of attention...good and bad. Unfortunately, when we are children, we don't have the tools to repel the negative attention...and when the negative attention is all we receive, we sometimes end up craving it.

A typical predator doesn't just choose any child to abuse. A predator looks for innocence and purity. He looks for that which he lacks. He looks to the child to replace that for him. And since a child can never replace the emptiness he feels inside, it can only provide a temporary reprieve, abusing children becomes like a drug with addictive qualities. The predator must abuse again and again to satisfy his "needs", and when the child grows too old to provide the predator with the innocence and purity he desires, the predator moves on to the next innocent child.

Rick, the fact that you may have possessed the qualities that a predator looks for in a child is something to be proud of because it is those exact same qualities that would make a healthy person want to love and nurture you. Those qualities make you a good person no matter what evil they resulted in. You simply found yourself in the wrong place at that wrong time, and that is truly horrible.

Bryan

I stand corrected, You are right Bryan. your are right on target about the qualities of the victims they choose.
Thank you Bryan



Edited by GateKPR4 (12/16/07 12:11 AM)
_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#195459 - 12/16/07 12:10 AM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Yes I agree again with Bryan about grooming, my last perp set me up /groomed me for about 6 months, drugs was the primary tool, after gaining my trust and becoming best friends, then moving in with him. My boundaries were slowly broken down, pushing ever harder until I had no boundaries left. Then things got weird.
Of course my case may be a little different due to the cult aspect.
peace
Rick

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#195515 - 12/16/07 11:56 AM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
my per was my moms b/f and after he got out jail became her husband.
He set us up by getting my mom to believe everything he did was tight and me ad my sister were wrong, dumb, stupid. His goal was to humiliate me, take away my dignity, and self confidence. His goal was also to humiliate me in front of my friends by doing this to me.
I welcome all triggers,( I try to encourage it) for I am facing this head on. I have lived /existed for many years and I will be damned if I let it continue.

Rick


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#195589 - 12/16/07 07:59 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: Jarrad
"This study is the first step on the road toward normalizing pedophilia - just as homosexuality has been mainstreamed, to the point where tolerance is no longer sufficient: We now have to "embrace" it."

uh... that implies homosexuality is on the same level as pedophilia. how dumb.

Exactly, Jarrad.

But then Ms. Schlesenger is not exactly known for her unbiased views on homosexuality, hence my post above disclaiming any association with or endorsement by MaleSurvivor of her or her beliefs. We can agree with her, however, that the study mentioned in her article is about as bogus as it gets.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#195592 - 12/16/07 08:05 PM Re: book on predators [Re: WalkingSouth]
WalkingSouth Offline
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Originally Posted By: BJK
Ken: If I may make one critique about what you wrote, I don't think the part about "grooming" is extensive enough.

That may be true of the passage Ken quoted above, Bryan, but remember this is only an excerpt from a much larger work by Ken which discusses in depth the various aspects of CSA.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#195622 - 12/17/07 08:45 AM Re: book on predators [Re: WalkingSouth]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
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Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA

Bryan:
John is correct. This chapter on perpetrators is the longest one in the book. I did not include the whole thing because it would have probably messed up the site.

There is a good deal on grooming and I might post something about that if I can readily find it. I have a couple of hours today that I'll be doing some editing work.

The question about Type I becoming II or III is probably correct. There is some scholarly research on this but no true typology that I am aware of. A boylover who was in touch with me while I was researching this area did a survey on the boychat site (don't go there unless you have a very strong stomach or like to get extremely pissed off). He did an online survey to determine how these guys see themselves. Believe me, they have pretty much brainwashed themselves and each other to conclude they are doing boys a favor by being their friends and helping them discover their developing sexuality. And the sad fact is that they, for the most part, have never been in contact with the legal system.

Unfortunately, the professionals who work with perpetrators generally only work with the "caught". There is a lot of the "uncaught" or "not yet caught" who we need to learn about.

But, maybe that's another book.

Ken


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#195633 - 12/17/07 10:36 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
AndyJB2005 Offline
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Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
Believe me, they have pretty much brainwashed themselves and each other to conclude they are doing boys a favor by being their friends and helping them discover their developing sexuality.


This is true. They are very brainwashed on those Boylover chat boards. I've never seen a more...diluted community in my life.

Some of those people even hope to lobby the government. As if...lol.

Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
Unfortunately, the professionals who work with perpetrators generally only work with the "caught". There is a lot of the "uncaught" or "not yet caught" who we need to learn about.


This is the problem with offender treatment in this country. There's only regulated treatment for those who have been arrested and are mandated by the court system to go. It seems rather counter-productive to me. As hard as it is to believe, there are a lot of guys who really DO want to get help with their attraction to children but:

A) Don't know where to get it, because it's so sparse and difficult to find a "friendly" therapist

and B) Are terrified of being trapped, cornered and possibly arrested/strung up by the angry mob.

I can empathize with their paranoia. Not many -- even therapists -- are open to treating such people pre-arrest; and to me, that's kind of short-sighted. We want them to stop, but provide little or nothing in the way of help FOR them to stop. Then we get mad about why they offended in the first place. Then if, god forbid, they do act out we place them on lists for all to see, at risk of violence (see the news), and instill 99 year parole sentences. Then, when they are unable to live any where that has jobs because of registration laws, and are denied employment, we wonder how could they offend...?

In my experience as a victim, shame and humiliation never prompted me to get better and live right. I can't imagine it would for them either.

We can't have our cake and eat it too. If we really want to protect children, we need to get to the root, not the symptom.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#195641 - 12/17/07 11:31 AM Re: book on predators [Re: AndyJB2005]
BJK Offline
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Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Ken,

Thanks for your response. It seems that the grooming aspect of CSA is not only what a lot of perps get off on (getting their victims to trust them), but it also seems like it is also the aspect of CSA that tends to mess with the minds of the victims the most. I'm not sure how much posting this would help the site in general, but I did think I would just throw it out there.

Andy,

You're right on, bud. The reason I post to threads like this is because I feel that understanding and treating potential perps is absolutely key to protecting our children. All shame does is it prevents people from getting the help they need.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195715 - 12/17/07 08:37 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
What I know from the thousands of abusers I've worked with over the last 30 years is that nearly ALL of them thought about it before they did anything. It doesn't "just happen'.

There is an organization with a toll-free number that can talk to someone who is thinking about abusing and talk (hopefully) him out of doing it. It is Stop It Now, http://www.stopitnow.org or 1 888 PREVENT that one can check out for info on this. I am on the board of directors and it is not a set up or sting for potential perps. It is about preventing CSA.

Unfortunately, a number of people think it is something to get perps off the hook when in fact it doesn't and can't do that. It is really about prevention.

Ken


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#195720 - 12/17/07 08:58 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
MarkD Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 1
Loc: Minnesota, USA
My recently published book Flashbacks of Abuse: how a machine gun toting sociopath freed me from the chains of my childhood which you can buy from me at FlashbacksOfAbuse.com or from Amazon.com discusses the mind, thinking, and mode of operation of my abuser--a man who I know abused at least a dozen boys.


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#195723 - 12/17/07 09:14 PM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Ken,

Well done!

Aggressive or Delinquent Abusers:

...The aggressive adolescent abuser can be very dangerous. Because adolescents often are not aware of the consequences of their behaviors and may lack empathy for the needs or distress of others, they can be very destructive to their victims...


Thank you for identifying my perps! I've not seen them previously described or identified as they are in any other work. I've always felt rather freaakishly-unique in that my perps were violent, evil adolcents who had absolutely NO regard for me.

_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#196017 - 12/20/07 10:22 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
i have been reading this book, "Unspeakable Acts" and i have to say that it is spinning my head in such a positive way that I am actually starting to see how I have been so ashamed of just being molested. How I have been carrying around the shame of guilt rather than the pride of innocence.


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#196022 - 12/20/07 11:27 AM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
rickochey,

Originally Posted By: rickochey
How I have been carrying around the shame of guilt rather than the pride of innocence.


That's exactly it. Once we begin to look at how perps operate and how they set up and groom their victims it becomes perfectly clear to us how totally innocent we were. In most cases the abuser is already known to the boy, so even the barrier of trust has been breached from the start. We never had a chance.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#196024 - 12/20/07 11:36 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Rob,

Originally Posted By: Robbie Brown
I've always felt rather freakishly-unique in that my perps were violent, evil adolescents who had absolutely NO regard for me.


I think it's rather like bullying. A bully can justify the misery he causes by regarding his victims as not worthy of any better treatment. Much of what he does to the victim does exactly that: it justifies the rest of his brutal behavior.

From what you have said on various occasions it seems to me this model fits your adolescent abusers perfectly. It might help you to know that their lack of any concern for you even as a human being reflects an absolute lack of empathy on their part. That is, we're talking about a failing of theirs, not a weakness or fault of yours.

Since we're spilling the beans on Ken's book anyway, \:\) I should say that this theme of empathy is a major element in the way he sees things.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#196173 - 12/21/07 01:48 PM Re: book on predators [Re: roadrunner]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6607
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
...I should say that this theme of empathy is a major element in the way he sees things...


Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly...(That may be true given that this topic freaks me out. That is, looking into the base reasons for what happened to us all.)...but doesn't this excerpt from the Empathy section of Ken's work apply to EACH and EVERY abuser? I can't come up with a single exception in my mind.

Quote:
Abusers who lack empathy may turn out to be sociopaths (or what used to be called “psychopaths”), people who are unable and unconcerned to feel the pain they cause others. They may also be very self-centered to the point of being narcissistic (or totally self-absorbed).


_________________________
Hell needs firewood too ya know!

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#196199 - 12/21/07 06:47 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Still]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Rob,

A lot of abusers actually beleive they are helping their victims. This is the NAMBLA point of view. Even though their version of empathy might be twisted to a normal and healthy human, it is still empathy.

Bryan



Edited by BJK (12/21/07 06:47 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#196207 - 12/21/07 08:14 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5780
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I relate in this chapter the story of a kid I had in my group some years ago. He was in the program (residential) because he has molested a couple of boys. In group, he said that he used empathy in his assaults (primarily he was performing oral sex on an 8 year old boy).

He told the group, he used empathy and put himself in the boy's place. "Who wouldn't want to get his dick sucked?" he asked the group. They quickly pointed out that the understanding and feelings that the teenager had from receiving oral sex was not the same for a younger child and that this was a distortion of real empathy because it did not look at the potential consequences for the child or his level of understanding of the act.

Ken


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#196371 - 12/23/07 09:42 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
UPDATE ON MY READING

So many good things I have uncovered that I have been trying to get to. I am so glad that I am reading this book. So many questions have been answered. This book shows you how they think and their background. It is a real eye opener,mind opener and heart opener.

I do not want to reveal to much for the ones who are still sensitive to this subject.



Edited by rickochey (12/23/07 12:06 PM)

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#196463 - 12/23/07 09:02 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
Bewlayb1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 243
Loc: NYC
I met two men whom I suspect of being pedophiles, one was in high school, one in college. I was almost mute until I was eighteen. Yet, the boy in high school befriended me. He was weird and widely disliked by our classmates. He dressed all in black, was emaciated, and had a lunatic look in his eyes. I tried to avoid him, but for some reason, he took an interest in me.

He disclosed to me that he was sexually abused as an infant by a babysitter. His mother talked to him about it when he was older, and he didn't think it was wrong. We were in health class together, and he manipulated the Freudian theories we were studying to suggest that children wanted sex with adults. Later, someone told me that he was bragging about being in a relationship with a seven-year-old girl.

The second became my best friend during freshman year of college, when I still had little, or no social skills. His favorite saying was "no one cares for the carer," and he tried to be everyone's therapist. He was a self-proclaimed martyr, who, in fact, hated himself and hated people. He told me that he always knew he was "special." He loved to tell his friends they were "special" too.

He was working at a camp during the summer between freshman and sophmore year. He called me, and expressed an attraction towards a young boy. I hung up. I couldn't sleep that night. Though I didn't remember my abuse yet, I wrote a letter stating that he was a horrible person, he needed to see a psychologist, and I never wanted to speak to him again. Secretly, I hoped he would kill himself.

The only pattern I can see is in their need to justify what they were doing. In some form, they placed blame on the child. The one in college thought he was loving children. The one in high school thought he was giving them what they wanted. God, even writing this sickens me.


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#332431 - 05/28/10 10:31 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Bewlayb1]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I want to add a couple of books I read before becoming a part of MS.

One of these is: Conversations With a Pedophile: In the Interest of our Children by Amy Hamil Zhabin.

http://www.amazon.com/Conversations-Pedophile-Interest-our-Children/dp/1569802475/

This book chronicles the mind of a real-live pedophile who says he abused more than 1000 boys. Don't read it unless you are up to it. It will depress you for months. But it's a book that should be read by some professionals and law enforcement types. The cost of this book has skyrocketed. It is now selling for about $125 new (hardbound). Amazon says it's on it's 28th edition (paperback). If you were abused by this guy (his name is Alan) then this book has the capability of firing you off into space.

Another very revealing book which also has the capability of depressing a person is:

The Man With The Candy. by Jack Olsen. This is about the terrible ring of boy-abusers in Houston who killed their victims. The book brought me to tears more than once.

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Candy-Jack-Olsen/dp/0743212835/

This book was very revealing about a type of CSA which hopefully is pretty rare. But we need to know about what goes on.

pufferfish


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#333328 - 06/08/10 10:05 PM Re: book on predators [Re: pufferfish]
catfish86 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 826
Loc: Ohio
Reading about the Candyman through wikipedia and some other websites, it reminds me somewhat of my uncle. I often wonder how many kids he killed. It also points out the utter stupidity and laziness of law enforcement. The things police let go are amazing. One who reads these cases often enough soon learns why Jaycee Lee Dugard could be held in a backyard tent undetected with 2 daughters born to her abductor who is a convicted sex offender on parole with regular visits by a parole officer. How Fing dumb and lazy can you be. The Houston police refused to investigate "runaways", ignoring the frightened parents while over 42 boys disappeared from the same neighborhood in less than three years. They dug up 27 bodies and stopped despite knowing that there were at least 3 more bodies and evidence of prior similar behavior years prior to the first identified victim. It is likely there may be over a hundred bodies but they were poor people's boys. The same fricking morons that want to put Aaron Vargas in jail for murder because he was a "homosexual". Then you fast forward to Cleveland Ohio and the Anthony Sowell house loaded with rotting corpses of women in a poor neighborhood.

It is troubling to me to see how little effort law enforcement puts into these efforts.

I also see that these perps are often very intelligent at passing off their crimes in front of others.

_________________________
God grant me
The Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

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#381349 - 01/03/12 01:42 PM Re: book on predators [Re: catfish86]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: catfish86
Reading about the Candyman through wikipedia and some other websites, it reminds me somewhat of my uncle. I often wonder how many kids he killed. It also points out the utter stupidity and laziness of law enforcement. The things police let go are amazing. One who reads these cases often enough soon learns why Jaycee Lee Dugard could be held in a backyard tent undetected with 2 daughters born to her abductor who is a convicted sex offender on parole with regular visits by a parole officer. How Fing dumb and lazy can you be. The Houston police refused to investigate "runaways", ignoring the frightened parents while over 42 boys disappeared from the same neighborhood in less than three years. They dug up 27 bodies and stopped despite knowing that there were at least 3 more bodies and evidence of prior similar behavior years prior to the first identified victim. It is likely there may be over a hundred bodies but they were poor people's boys. The same fricking morons that want to put Aaron Vargas in jail for murder because he was a "homosexual". Then you fast forward to Cleveland Ohio and the Anthony Sowell house loaded with rotting corpses of women in a poor neighborhood.

It is troubling to me to see how little effort law enforcement puts into these efforts.

I also see that these perps are often very intelligent at passing off their crimes in front of others.


Jaycee Dugard's book has been published since this post was made. Stolen Life, a Memoir.

http://www.amazon.com/Stolen-Life-Memoir-Jaycee-Dugard/dp/1451629184/

Also the book by Keith Smith on how he survived the Los Angeles strangler is not in this thread.

Quote:

There are several threads about this. One guy who is an MS person had his story made into a movie. He was the only one to live through being abducted by the Los Angeles stangeler. I saw the movie as a rental dvd a few months ago. It's pretty stark.

The guy's name is Keith Smith. He wrote a book about his experience and the movie was based on that.

Quote:
:
This is the terrifying true story of William Bonin, the notorious "Freeway Killer" who, from April 1979 to June 1980, was responsible for the murders of at least 16 young men along the streets and highways of Los Angeles.


Here is the thread about it:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...true#Post285766

The book is: Men In My Town, by Keith Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Men-My-Town-Keith-Smith/dp/1439226253/




Puffer





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#381402 - 01/04/12 06:44 AM Re: book on predators [Re: pufferfish]
men_of_hrts.dbw Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 302
Loc: Orchidland Big Island Hawaii
I survived Randy S Kraft and the cover up/conspiracy. The Bonin survivor is a close friend, we talk on the phone all the time and have a unique understanding and bond.
As for the cover up: RSK killed 67 men, many were Marines.
The Gov sends me shut up money each month and l hate them more than l ever hated RSK. The Gov sent me almost $42K since Nov. 2010,
Someday l will tell the whole story. I have kept a detailed daily journal since July 2007 two weeks after disclosure to current date.
Doug
There is a book written by Dennis McDougal who l have met and become friends with: Angel of Darkness. It covers the three serial killers; Randy S Kraft, William Bonin and a lessor known killer, the three were active at the same time in So California. Randy was able to unsuccessfully sue the publisher but the publisher paid a lot of attorney fees in the suit.
I was also able to contact RSK who is on death row in San Quentin Prison via one of his pen pals. Long story...the past 4 1/2 years l have been digging the truth and found many amazing connected people and even retired military investigators and media journalists who were very involved during the 1970's thru mid 80's.



Edited by men_of_hrts.dbw (01/04/12 07:17 AM)
_________________________
Doug>ASA Survivor (1x)
ECV 6001/MaTuCa Chapter 1849
E Clampus Vitus
"What Say the Brethren"
"Hang the Bastards"

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#381414 - 01/04/12 10:18 AM Re: book on predators [Re: men_of_hrts.dbw]
1islandboy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 862
Loc: washington
A couple of other books that speak about the mind of a "child molester" are:

"Unspeakable Acts" by Douglas W. Pryor

~and~

"Predators" by Anna C. Salter, Ph.D.



island

_________________________
Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

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