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#195459 - 12/16/07 12:10 AM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Yes I agree again with Bryan about grooming, my last perp set me up /groomed me for about 6 months, drugs was the primary tool, after gaining my trust and becoming best friends, then moving in with him. My boundaries were slowly broken down, pushing ever harder until I had no boundaries left. Then things got weird.
Of course my case may be a little different due to the cult aspect.
peace
Rick

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#195515 - 12/16/07 11:56 AM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
rickochey Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
my per was my moms b/f and after he got out jail became her husband.
He set us up by getting my mom to believe everything he did was tight and me ad my sister were wrong, dumb, stupid. His goal was to humiliate me, take away my dignity, and self confidence. His goal was also to humiliate me in front of my friends by doing this to me.
I welcome all triggers,( I try to encourage it) for I am facing this head on. I have lived /existed for many years and I will be damned if I let it continue.

Rick


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#195589 - 12/16/07 07:59 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16268
Originally Posted By: Jarrad
"This study is the first step on the road toward normalizing pedophilia - just as homosexuality has been mainstreamed, to the point where tolerance is no longer sufficient: We now have to "embrace" it."

uh... that implies homosexuality is on the same level as pedophilia. how dumb.

Exactly, Jarrad.

But then Ms. Schlesenger is not exactly known for her unbiased views on homosexuality, hence my post above disclaiming any association with or endorsement by MaleSurvivor of her or her beliefs. We can agree with her, however, that the study mentioned in her article is about as bogus as it gets.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#195592 - 12/16/07 08:05 PM Re: book on predators [Re: WalkingSouth]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16268
Originally Posted By: BJK
Ken: If I may make one critique about what you wrote, I don't think the part about "grooming" is extensive enough.

That may be true of the passage Ken quoted above, Bryan, but remember this is only an excerpt from a much larger work by Ken which discusses in depth the various aspects of CSA.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#195622 - 12/17/07 08:45 AM Re: book on predators [Re: WalkingSouth]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA

Bryan:
John is correct. This chapter on perpetrators is the longest one in the book. I did not include the whole thing because it would have probably messed up the site.

There is a good deal on grooming and I might post something about that if I can readily find it. I have a couple of hours today that I'll be doing some editing work.

The question about Type I becoming II or III is probably correct. There is some scholarly research on this but no true typology that I am aware of. A boylover who was in touch with me while I was researching this area did a survey on the boychat site (don't go there unless you have a very strong stomach or like to get extremely pissed off). He did an online survey to determine how these guys see themselves. Believe me, they have pretty much brainwashed themselves and each other to conclude they are doing boys a favor by being their friends and helping them discover their developing sexuality. And the sad fact is that they, for the most part, have never been in contact with the legal system.

Unfortunately, the professionals who work with perpetrators generally only work with the "caught". There is a lot of the "uncaught" or "not yet caught" who we need to learn about.

But, maybe that's another book.

Ken

_________________________
Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

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#195633 - 12/17/07 10:36 AM Re: book on predators [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
AndyJB2005 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Saint Paul, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
Believe me, they have pretty much brainwashed themselves and each other to conclude they are doing boys a favor by being their friends and helping them discover their developing sexuality.


This is true. They are very brainwashed on those Boylover chat boards. I've never seen a more...diluted community in my life.

Some of those people even hope to lobby the government. As if...lol.

Originally Posted By: Ken Singer, LCSW
Unfortunately, the professionals who work with perpetrators generally only work with the "caught". There is a lot of the "uncaught" or "not yet caught" who we need to learn about.


This is the problem with offender treatment in this country. There's only regulated treatment for those who have been arrested and are mandated by the court system to go. It seems rather counter-productive to me. As hard as it is to believe, there are a lot of guys who really DO want to get help with their attraction to children but:

A) Don't know where to get it, because it's so sparse and difficult to find a "friendly" therapist

and B) Are terrified of being trapped, cornered and possibly arrested/strung up by the angry mob.

I can empathize with their paranoia. Not many -- even therapists -- are open to treating such people pre-arrest; and to me, that's kind of short-sighted. We want them to stop, but provide little or nothing in the way of help FOR them to stop. Then we get mad about why they offended in the first place. Then if, god forbid, they do act out we place them on lists for all to see, at risk of violence (see the news), and instill 99 year parole sentences. Then, when they are unable to live any where that has jobs because of registration laws, and are denied employment, we wonder how could they offend...?

In my experience as a victim, shame and humiliation never prompted me to get better and live right. I can't imagine it would for them either.

We can't have our cake and eat it too. If we really want to protect children, we need to get to the root, not the symptom.

_________________________
Life's disappointments are harder to take when you don't know any swear words. -- Calvin (Calvin and Hobbes)

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#195641 - 12/17/07 11:31 AM Re: book on predators [Re: AndyJB2005]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Ken,

Thanks for your response. It seems that the grooming aspect of CSA is not only what a lot of perps get off on (getting their victims to trust them), but it also seems like it is also the aspect of CSA that tends to mess with the minds of the victims the most. I'm not sure how much posting this would help the site in general, but I did think I would just throw it out there.

Andy,

You're right on, bud. The reason I post to threads like this is because I feel that understanding and treating potential perps is absolutely key to protecting our children. All shame does is it prevents people from getting the help they need.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195715 - 12/17/07 08:37 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
What I know from the thousands of abusers I've worked with over the last 30 years is that nearly ALL of them thought about it before they did anything. It doesn't "just happen'.

There is an organization with a toll-free number that can talk to someone who is thinking about abusing and talk (hopefully) him out of doing it. It is Stop It Now, http://www.stopitnow.org or 1 888 PREVENT that one can check out for info on this. I am on the board of directors and it is not a set up or sting for potential perps. It is about preventing CSA.

Unfortunately, a number of people think it is something to get perps off the hook when in fact it doesn't and can't do that. It is really about prevention.

Ken

_________________________
Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

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#195720 - 12/17/07 08:58 PM Re: book on predators [Re: rickochey]
MarkD Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 1
Loc: Minnesota, USA
My recently published book Flashbacks of Abuse: how a machine gun toting sociopath freed me from the chains of my childhood which you can buy from me at FlashbacksOfAbuse.com or from Amazon.com discusses the mind, thinking, and mode of operation of my abuser--a man who I know abused at least a dozen boys.


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#195723 - 12/17/07 09:14 PM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 7011
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Ken,

Well done!

Aggressive or Delinquent Abusers:

...The aggressive adolescent abuser can be very dangerous. Because adolescents often are not aware of the consequences of their behaviors and may lack empathy for the needs or distress of others, they can be very destructive to their victims...


Thank you for identifying my perps! I've not seen them previously described or identified as they are in any other work. I've always felt rather freaakishly-unique in that my perps were violent, evil adolcents who had absolutely NO regard for me.


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