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#195311 - 12/14/07 08:47 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
he loved me till i said no


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#195317 - 12/14/07 10:20 PM Re: book on predators [Re: evanesence]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Ken Singer's new book will be an important perspective on ways survivors can deal with memories of the abusers and the effects of abuse. I don't know of anything else out there that compares to what he's doing in this book.

Material on abusers is available in professional literature and also in a few handbooks for survivors, but one book that focuses on this is Scout's Honor: Sexual Abuse in America's Most Trusted Institution by Patrick Boyle (1994). Boyle looks at the history of sexual abuse in the Boy Scout movement by focusing on the activities of one particular offender, Carl Bittenbender, and his victims. He also works in material concerning other offenders to see how typical Bittenbender's actions were.

This book can be very triggery, as you can imagine. I wanted to read it because I was abused in the Scouts, but it was difficult to get through it. I didn't realize until I was about halfway through it that I really was not in a safe place to do this kind of thing yet.

If you feel a need to get into this kind of stuff, okay, but do be careful. It can be a real mindfucker, and if you feel you're getting ambushed every page I would say let it go for awhile and wait for Ken's book.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#195331 - 12/15/07 07:01 AM Re: book on predators [Re: roadrunner]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Evanesence,

What I'm about to say here might get extremely triggery, so please proceed with caution.

The hardest part about this whole recovery process for many of us was coming to the realization that our perps did not, in fact, love us. My perp was my mother, and the day that I realized that everything she ever did for me was for her own self-gratification was very a very miserable day.

It really needs to be said even though I know it will hurt. Your perp didn't love you. He's not capable of feeling love. He fed off of your willingness to do things for him. His twisted mind believed that since you were willing, you loved him. He used that to replace the fact that he could never love another person.

I firmly believe that anyone who is capable of abusing a child is not capable of feeling love.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#195347 - 12/15/07 09:12 AM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Passable triggers

My new understanding of predators.
Predators are like leaches they just attach to you and feed off you until you pull them off, die, or you have nothing left to give. I don't think I'm different or special and there was this great plan to choose me. There was not! There was opportunity and the predator took it.

If I jump in a pond and there are leaches in it most likely I will get one attached to me. predators are no different than leaches.

The pond looks innocent and inviting from the crystal mirror reflection on top but underneath lies the danger. We can't see it but its there.
I know this sounds cold as hell but its the truth as I understand it.
Peace
Rick

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#195360 - 12/15/07 10:12 AM Re: book on predators [Re: GateKPR4]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
First of all, I need to say that the reason why I participate so actively in discussions such as these is because I firmly beleive that understanding predators is the most important and most effective way we have of protecting our children.

Rick, you came pretty dang close to hitting the nail on the head, but I would like to disagree in one area. This might be a little difficult to process in a positive way at first, and it might even trigger you somewhat. So, again, I say to proceed with caution.

I think that there was something special about you that attracted the predator. It is nothing you did. It is who you are. You are a good person who is deserving of the love and affection of others. Unfortunately, the "love and affection" you received ended up being for the sexual gratification of a predator instead of the healthy nurturing of a mentor.

I think that victims and survivors tend to have low opinions of themselves because they feel that such a negative outward display will deflect such negative attention. The fact is, good people attract all kinds of attention...good and bad. Unfortunately, when we are children, we don't have the tools to repel the negative attention...and when the negative attention is all we receive, we sometimes end up craving it.

A typical predator doesn't just choose any child to abuse. A predator looks for innocence and purity. He looks for that which he lacks. He looks to the child to replace that for him. And since a child can never replace the emptiness he feels inside, it can only provide a temporary reprieve, abusing children becomes like a drug with addictive qualities. The predator must abuse again and again to satisfy his "needs", and when the child grows too old to provide the predator with the innocence and purity he desires, the predator moves on to the next innocent child.

Rick, the fact that you may have possessed the qualities that a predator looks for in a child is something to be proud of because it is those exact same qualities that would make a healthy person want to love and nurture you. Those qualities make you a good person no matter what evil they resulted in. You simply found yourself in the wrong place at that wrong time, and that is truly horrible.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#195393 - 12/15/07 01:34 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Per Larry's comments (full disclosure here... he's my editor for the book) I am pasting part of a chapter on abusers to give another perspective to this discussion.

Please note that this is still being edited and not ready for publication, though we hope to be done by the first of the year.

Ken




The Adult in Authority

As children, many of us were told to listen to people in positions of authority. The teacher, police officer, sports coach, instructors of music, dance, martial arts, clergy, scout leaders, and babysitters, are all given “in loco parentis” responsibility by parents. That is, they have custody and control of a child for the duration of the activity. During that time, the child is expected to listen, obey and follow the instructions of the adult.

Sometimes the activity involves direct physical contact. The dance instructor, martial arts teacher, and sometimes sports coaches, are generally permitted to touch or position the child’s body to practice the right form or movement. A young adult Tae Kwan Do instructor who had been put on probation for statutory rape involving three fourteen-year-old girls complained bitterly in my offenders’ group one night that he lost his job at the martial arts school where he worked. He said that his boss was aware of his offense and although he had only adult and young children students (no teens because of his crime), the complaints of a parent who was aware of his offense history caused him to lose his job. The boss was particularly concerned that the instructor would be touching students to demonstrate correct position, and he could not take a risk that someone might complain about inappropriate touch, whether actual or misinterpreted.

Another man I worked with was a part-time piano teacher. He had no legitimate reason to touch his students, except possibly to position their hands on the keyboard. However, he sat next to them on the piano bench, and with several students over the years he would “accidentally” brush his hand against their genital region. When the boy did not challenge or rebuff him, he grew bolder and would deliberately fondle his penis over his clothing until he had an erection. Several he eventually touched inside their pants. His reasoning was that if a boy told him to stop he would do so immediately, but if he said nothing this meant he was consenting to what the teacher was doing.

Molested by an aunt when he was a young boy, he remembered that he felt closeness and comfort, along with pleasurable feelings, when she took naps with him and fondled his penis over his clothing. He forgot about this until he was arrested and in treatment. The payoff for him was a distorted sense of how he should nurture his students. Married and sexually active with his wife, he did not see the abuse of his students as harmful, or even sexual in the way he was with his wife. There was no orgasm or masturbation fantasy with the children.

These examples are of men who have adequate social skills. The martial arts instructor was quite popular and had a number of girlfriends in his adolescence and young adulthood. The piano instructor was married to a very attractive woman and had been in many age-appropriate sexual relationships over the years prior to his marriage. These were men who did not “need” to turn to children or under-aged teens to gain sexual gratification. So why did they knowingly engage in sexual behaviors with people who were inappropriate FOR THEM and under age?

The martial arts instructor, who was 21 at the time, had persuaded the three fourteen-year-old girls to come to his apartment, where he gave them alcohol and they had group sex. He knew how old they were, and he also knew that giving them alcohol was illegal, yet he proceeded to have sex with them and watched as two of the girls had sex with each other. Unlike many sexual offenses, this made sense from the traditional standpoint of what we understand sex to be about, sexual excitement that usually leads to orgasm. When his offense is considered from the standpoint of emotional needs, it becomes clearER that this behavior was motivated by power and excitement.

Because he had a car, money, alcohol, and was considered to be a personable and good-looking young man, the girls were “willing” victims. They apparently enjoyed the attention of this high-status young man. He was caught because in the weeks that followed the incident, the girls bragged about the sex acts at school and someone reported it to a guidance counselor; the disclosure led to the martial arts instructor’s arrest.

These offenders had good social skills and plenty of opportunity to be sexual with appropriate partners. In the case of abusive clergy, particularly priests, we often find less social-skills competency and a lack of a legitimate partner for sexual expression. The classic – almost stereotypical – “pedophile priest” is someone who generally went from high school to seminary, had little or no dating experience and was forbidden to marry or engage in sexual activities with others, regardless of age or gender. Some research indicates that the priesthood has often been a place of refuge for xxxxSOME young men who are very conflicted about their sexuality. Seminaries generally do not deal with issues of sexuality, and the vows of celibacy make it difficult for troubled or confused priests to discuss their feelings and fantasies with anyone in the order.

Some years ago I worked with a middle-aged priest who had been abused in childhood. One of the reasons he became a priest was because he felt confused about his sexuality, the abuse having caused him ambivalence over his attraction to males. Although he did not give in to his feelings towards some of the younger priests who were attractive to him, nor to any of the children or alter boys he worked with, he engaged in sex with young male prostitutes (always of legal age, he believed) when he vacationed in the Dominican Republic and several other Third-World countries.

These encounters were opportunities for him to be sexual with others. He also confessed some time into the therapy that he once fondled his teen nephew. He felt terribly guilty for going into the boy’s bed one night when he slept over, hugging him and fondling the boy’s penis. Though the boy was awake and stopped the abuse after a few minutes by rolling over on his stomach, nothing was said. Now, 20 or more years later, the priest wanted to apologize and make amends if he could. Since the nephew, now in his 30s and married, had never said anything to his uncle about that incident, the priest struggled over making an apology but wondering if the nephew had totally forgotten about it.

In looking at what needs this behavior may have reflected, the priest concluded that he was looking to nurture his nephew at the time of the abuse. In hindsight this made no sense, but he realized that the desire for closeness with another person, denied to him by his chosen profession, had become twisted in his mind at the time and had been played out when he got into bed with the boy and fondled him. The priest, as the piano teacher, wanted to replay the nurturing scenario that was sexualized in their childhoods.


Emotional Needs

In looking at the list of 20+ emotional needs people have (see Chapter X), it does not appear that there are many needs that apply to sexual abusers besides a distortion of nurturance, intimacy, power and perhaps attention or validation. To better understand this misuse of legitimate needs, consider the common example of eating when you are not really hungry. People, particularly those who are overweight, will often turn to food to meet other needs. Bored? Lonely? Disappointed? Hurt? Frustrated? These are feelings we all have from time to time. If we don’t recognize that the feeling is there, and that we have a number of choices to meet the needs arising from these feelings, we may resort to eating when we are really not hungry in an attempt to address the unpleasant feelings and satisfy unmet needs.

Consider now the person who exposes himself. If that person runs naked onto the field during the Superbowl, it is likely that he wants attention. Same for the woman who flashes her breasts from a balcony during Mardi Gras in New Orleans. How about the man who subtly exposes his penis at the end of a row of books in the college library so a female student sees him? Or what of the man who pulls down his sweatpants in front of a group of young teen girls at a bus stop?

Each of these situations may legally be the same kind of sexual offense (lewdness or indecent exposure, for example), but the motives and needs of the offenders may be very different. The man in the college library admitted to me that he had done this to about 200 different women over a period of more than fifteen years. What did he hope to accomplish, I asked him? He said he had a fantasy that some woman would see his erect penis and want to have sex with him. Asked how this was working out, he admitted that he was “0 for 200”. This illustrates the difference between surface or conscious needs (companionship, touch), and what is likely going on subconsciously (need for attention and power).

The person who streaks the Superbowl probably has no belief that his behavior will result in him having sex with someone. It is highly probable that his need for attention is so powerful that the guarantee of an arrest and fine (punishment) is secondary to his need for attention. The woman who flashes her breasts in New Orleans during Mardi Gras is less likely to be arrested and her motives may be more related to the party culture going on – she is probably looking for attention as well.

Exposing oneself in front of a group of schoolgirls will not result in sexual contact. It is very unlikely that any of them would go off with the culprit. The more realistic needs being met are power and attention. Rather than being possibly admired and getting a date, as the college exposer hoped for, the man at the school bus stop will likely be greeted with screams of disgust and perhaps derision. The payoff for him is probably power or attention and it may be manifested in scaring or revolting the girls.

Sometimes, people who expose themselves are looking for the power of causing upset or fear in others. This person may be more interested in hurting or humiliating women than in attention or the unlikely possibility of a date. Exposers who seek to shock or embarrass women or children may likely be expressing hostility and anger rather than looking for sex.


Pedophiles and Hebophiles (or Ephebophiles)

However, there are other motivators for abusers. Some are primarily or exclusively attracted to pre-pubescent children. Their sexual interest, if exclusive, (that is, they are only attracted to young children, not age-appropriate people) may result in a diagnostic label as a “pedophile”. (For a comprehensive de>

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#195401 - 12/15/07 03:33 PM Re: book on predators [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
evanesence Offline
Guest

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 119
is there one that is all three? do all type ones become type three? i saw each of them in him. but as it progressed each one disappeard till he was just a three.


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#195405 - 12/15/07 04:06 PM Re: book on predators [Re: evanesence]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Evanesence: the appearance of type I and type II in your abuser was likely the fact that you were being groomed by him.

Ken: If I may make one critique about what you wrote, I don't think the part about "grooming" is extensive enough. I think an emphasis should be put on what lengths a prospective predator would go through to get a child to trust him/her into allowing sexual contact. I know it might be a little bit too late for that, given the book is in the editing stage, but it seems to me that most people with whom I have spoken about this type of behavior who are more predisposed to become the second type of predator I detailed in my previous post get just as much (if not more) of a thrill from the grooming stages of their relationship with a boy as they do from any actual sexual contact.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#195412 - 12/15/07 04:33 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Ken,

Thanks. I copied this text to my player and wil read it soon.

I'll also consider obtaining your book as son as it is released.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#195458 - 12/15/07 11:49 PM Re: book on predators [Re: BJK]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: BJK

Rick, you came pretty dang close to hitting the nail on the head, but I would like to disagree in one area. This might be a little difficult to process in a positive way at first, and it might even trigger you somewhat. So, again, I say to proceed with caution.
I think that there was something special about you that attracted the predator. It is nothing you did. It is who you are. You are a good person who is deserving of the love and affection of others. Unfortunately, the "love and affection" you received ended up being for the sexual gratification of a predator instead of the healthy nurturing of a mentor.

I think that victims and survivors tend to have low opinions of themselves because they feel that such a negative outward display will deflect such negative attention. The fact is, good people attract all kinds of attention...good and bad. Unfortunately, when we are children, we don't have the tools to repel the negative attention...and when the negative attention is all we receive, we sometimes end up craving it.

A typical predator doesn't just choose any child to abuse. A predator looks for innocence and purity. He looks for that which he lacks. He looks to the child to replace that for him. And since a child can never replace the emptiness he feels inside, it can only provide a temporary reprieve, abusing children becomes like a drug with addictive qualities. The predator must abuse again and again to satisfy his "needs", and when the child grows too old to provide the predator with the innocence and purity he desires, the predator moves on to the next innocent child.

Rick, the fact that you may have possessed the qualities that a predator looks for in a child is something to be proud of because it is those exact same qualities that would make a healthy person want to love and nurture you. Those qualities make you a good person no matter what evil they resulted in. You simply found yourself in the wrong place at that wrong time, and that is truly horrible.

Bryan

I stand corrected, You are right Bryan. your are right on target about the qualities of the victims they choose.
Thank you Bryan



Edited by GateKPR4 (12/16/07 12:11 AM)
_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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