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#1942 - 06/10/05 08:10 PM Suggestion to improve MS safety
ShyBear Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 149
Loc: The American South
One of the things I really like about how MS is structured is that most of the site is open to folk who have simply registered a valid email address, while at the same time, there are exclusive areas accesible only to those with a paid membership. MS requires membeship payments to be made by credit card, which results in recorded identifying information (name, address, CC number) that can be used to trace anyone whose participation here is fraudulent or even criminal (i.e. perps looking for victims).

My experience on MS thus far tells me that most of the time, the frauds/criminals get found out and dealt with pretty quick, if for no other reason than many of us have a well-honed intuition about who is real and who is a phony (and I confess to having a *very* short fuse in that department).

The real problem with keeping the board free from fakers is how to deal with those folk who *might* be fake, or who might just be having a really hard time breaking thru denial, or for whom English is not their native language, or who have some other totally legitimate reason. Unless I get triggered (which is *my* problem), my approach to such folk is to sit back & listen, and be supportive when I can as long as they do NOT become trouble makers.

Now, to my suggestion.

If a possible phony becomes a trouble maker, there are several things that could be done to up the stakes, which would : 1) make it very clear to a legit person that our collective safety requires that they modify their behavior at least a little bit; or 2) would flush out a real phony and then they could be dealt with.

Upping the stakes could be one or more of the following :
1) Require a paid membership
2) Restrict the person to read-only access to MS, meaning they can read, but can't post (in short, a "time out")
3) Restrict access to only certain boards
4) Restrict PM capabilities, perhaps based on the age of the intended recipient of the PM
5) Require their posts to be read by a moderator before allowing them to go up on the boards

I'm sure you guys can come up with other ideas, and the point would be to give the Mods a lot of flexibility. The tricky part would be how to determine that someone should be subjected to this sort of control / monitoring, and how it would be lifted. My thinking is much less clear on this aspect of the issue, other than the need for clear-yet-flexible guidelines in what is, by definition, a really hazy area.

Perhaps a starting point would be to list what makes each of us suspect someone's legitimacy, so we can discuss and separate our own, purely personal triggers from legitimate "red-flag" warnings.

To kick off a list, here are the things that make me go Hmmmmm ....

If a poster has never written about their own pain, their own history and their own recovery.

If a poster gives lots of advice *without* connecting it to their own personal SA experience, as if they'd read it from a book.

If a poster's first posts are on the "Gay Survivors" board and they are promoting (even subtley) that being gay is wrong, a sin, and/or can be "cured", and *especially* if they quote *anything* from the radical religious right about homosexuality. To clarify, I am *not* talking about guys who are afraid of gay men because of their SA, or who are struggling with what their true orientation is; rather, I'm talking about someone who blanket condemns man-on-man sex and/or homosexuality while displaying little understanding of what ALL us survivors, gay, sraight and bi, have had to struggle with to figure out who we really are, in the shadow of the SA we ALL suffered.

=====

A word about being supportive of someone who ultimately turns out to be a fake ...

I can (and do at times, mostly on other internet discussion boards) find that I've poured out energy in support of someone who turns out to be a fake. The sense of betrayal, of being manipulated, of feeling dirty because I've been used, of being a kid again who just didn't know any better - all these hurt like hell. What really helps me heal that hurt is knowing that there are *other* folk who got *real* value from what I wrote in support of the jerk, but who, for whatever reason, remain silent lurkers on the board. And sometime the act of writing a post is very good for me, because it helps me know what I think & feel.


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#1943 - 06/10/05 08:54 PM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
Soccer Kid Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 273
Loc: Missouri


_________________________
~Zach~
Deviant of Many Talents

"Reality is just an illusion."

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#1945 - 06/10/05 09:09 PM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
ShyBear, there is nothing quite like spending energy on someone who is fake, and believe me, there have been some real good ones here.

There have been instances where things get so out of hand, that Fred Tolson had to personally intervene, but it caused one Hell of a lot of damage, and a lot of guys just said that enough was enough.

It is difficult to keep MS safe, but we each have a duty to keep ourselves safe. The Mods do their best to ensure safety, but it can, and does get breached.

I had a wonderful time at Christmas with a woman posing as all different people, including using a mans name. She triggered a lot of people just with the name she used one time, and this mad book that she wrote, that I would not wipe my back end on.

Trust is always an issue, because we do not trust.
Me, you, and all of us have trust issues, and it is part of our protective makeup.

Intuition, yes, my intuition is finely honed. I dont want it to be that way, but it was learned from the past, and that is also part of trust.

The other thing is though, that I can also get it completely wrong, because we are all different, and we act or express in different ways.
An instance of this, is that I deny myself, that I was hurt, and just think I am whining or looking for attention, but it is wrong that I think this way, but that is also learned from the past.

It is a many edged sword, and I do think that expression is better than repression of hurt, but it is not the same for all of us, and we are all different.

Quote:
Upping the stakes could be one or more of the following :
1) Require to a paid membership
2) Restrict the person to read-only access to MS, meaning they can read, but can't post (in short, a "time out")
3) Restrict access to only certain boards
4) Restrict PM capabilities, perhaps based on the age of the intended recipient of the PM
5) Require their posts to be read by a moderator before allowing them to go up on the boards
If you look what MS is about, then it is there for the healing of men and boys without exclusion.
It has to be free to some extent or it misses the whole point.

Imagine if I was a teen at home and nobody knew of my abuse, then I am not going to ask my parents for a credit card to join, so it would exclude me from a support network.

Read only is not really an option either, because you cannot express something that may be threatening in the present time.

Access to limited boards maybe an option.

Restriction of PMs limits support for the individual so we classify different people, which cannot be right. I am sure the PMs are>
_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#1946 - 06/10/05 09:35 PM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 129
Loc: earth
i think some of the suggestions here are awesome, but also highly unlikely. and really, even if more info is required in order to join, people can still b.s. their way thru that. we all have trust issues here. i dontknow that there is really a way to please everyone or have a 'filtering' system that will be completely effective. i think the important thing is to be skeptical and open your eyes to the obvious.

Quote:
Originally posted by Soccer Kid:
* Overt interest in sex and/or sexual activities - Many individuals who are only out to get sexual satisfaction will frequently shift the subject to sex, usually if a perpetrator is good and skilled at it, the discussion can change quickly and usually the victim doesn't even realize how fast it changed.

* Age inappropriate behaviour - Many times liars lie about their age. This is the most common lie told on the internet today. Individuals who lie about their age will sometimes display inappropriate age behaviour such as an 8 year old having a vast knowledge of the outside world, knowing travel distances when they are not old enough to drive, watching and/or listening to programs or music that is not sold to minors, an over interest in sex and/or sexual activities, a request for sex and/or sexual activities etc...
[/QB]
the first one, i will not comment on. it speaks for itself and it has becoe apparent to me that this is a big factor in one situation ive encountered here. my eyes are open.

the second one i believe speaks for itself also. as much as i hate too say it, it is completely obvious.

there is so much that can be said on this topic. its just a matter of how much honesty people can handle.

_________________________
pUpPy

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#1947 - 06/10/05 10:18 PM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
As usual interesting stuff. I am a bit naïve on my good days.

I will get around to joining and offer the “Mods” a scholarshipfor some deserving member or two.

I have a sense that a few of the posts are by pedophiles or those with some
diagnosis out the DSM that is not due to CSA.

Guys who post with the childlike writing drive me crazy. I just stopped reading it.
I am sure most are having some regression.

I am very unsettled about folks under say 16 posting. I have no ideas but really support what I read here today. I just wanted to say that.

RockyMtJoe


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#1948 - 06/10/05 10:36 PM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
Soccer Kid Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 273
Loc: Missouri


_________________________
~Zach~
Deviant of Many Talents

"Reality is just an illusion."

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#1949 - 06/11/05 12:33 AM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
ShyBear Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 149
Loc: The American South
Quote:
Guys who post with the childlike writing drive me crazy. I just stopped reading it.
I am sure most are having some regression
It might be regression for those that speak English, or maybe just stream of conciousness with their Inner Child doing the talking, but keep in mind that we have several members for whom English is NOT their native tongue, and are either laboring with limited English skills, or are using free online translation, which tends to literalize the result into what we'd think was "childlike".


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#1950 - 06/11/05 12:48 AM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
English is not my language. But I do not feel I write 'childlike'. Maybe I do and do not know it! My apologies if my way of speaking here will make you suspect me. I been here most year and half now. I think I am someone safe to this site. But I do not expect people who do not know me to trust that. It is ok.

I have another friend, who is newer here this last week, who has used online translater few times, and yes, that results in quite silly things, and not making sense things. But to me, the 'childlike' writing here is been adults who speak English. As I say. Maybe I see it diferent.

There are already rules here for safety. It seems much persons do not follow them. I do not follow them all. There are three moderators here, they know my phone number, I know theres. That is probably fine. But there is also other members here, we have each other's phone number. Is that not against one of the rules? Also, quite a few members here I know personal email address for. Again, against the rules. Some members I have shared pictures with, when I have traveled, including picture of myself. Against the rules.

It is like the rule you can not drive 100miles an hour. It is for your safety, yes, but also for safety of others. If you break that rule, you are knowing there may be negative result to it.

Perhaps the rules already in place need to be honored more. But honest, will they? Most of us here are adult, and make our own choices. If I want to send joke email forwards to Mark and Al, is that such the bad thing? So when we take it on ourself to not follow what is been established, we take the consequence of it on ourself to. I have done that before here, I have suffered in consequence, and I learn from it. I think most persons here have.

If the situation is of protecting the children here, then perhaps enforcement is more needed. Their own forum, restricted to adults? Well then, how do they get adult feedback? Advice from people who have more experience, in healing and just in life? Let under 18 post only in their forum, and only allowed to read in adult forums? I don't know.

I think I do agree with chat restriction, as I think that would be more likely where a predator will attempt. (Sexual predator wanting internet intercourse, I am meaning). Such things have occured there before, I am aware of, and I do not know they have here on message boards. Perhaps a member under 18, there is like 2-hour moderated chat every night or day, then they are restricted? Or, they can not log into chat unless a moderator is in there? I am not sure how softwear works, to do that.

Just is my thoughts. I edited this post to add additional thoughts, not for any darker reason.

Andrei


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#1951 - 06/11/05 02:08 AM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
dan_in_newengland Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 162
Loc: Mass
ak, your ok and most people feel that. We know your english is not so good, and welcome vn.
it is not about you. but thanks for asking

Dan


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#1952 - 06/11/05 02:54 AM Re: Suggestion to improve MS safety
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
Relax guys ;\) (Trigger below in poem)

I can tell the difference. I have extended offers to translate. I am able to speak a bit of Spanish
which common in Southern Colorado, little Croatian
and the family speaks fluent Croatian, Russian and
Italian. I have not used the Japanese and Vietnamese for decades but I was trained in both (Army).

My English skills have bottomed as I get older but
one can tell often what ESLers write (English as a second language) and it is not "childlike".

For My Russian Friends:


Here is perhaps the sadest poem one can find
it screams like an abused child now old.

The Last Toast ANNA AKHMATOVA 1913

The Last Toast

I drink to the ruined house,
To the evil of my life,
To our shared loneliness
And I drink to you--
To the lie of lips that betrayed me,
To the deadly coldness of the eyes,
To the fact that the world is cruel and depraved,
To the fact that God did not save.

Judith Hemschemeyer trans


Последний тост

Я пью за разоренный дом,
За злую жизнь мою,
За одиночество вдвоем,
И за тебя я пью, -
За ложь меня предавших губ,
За мертвый холод глаз,
За то, что мир жесток и груб,
За то, что Бог не спас.


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