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#19390 - 05/08/06 04:43 PM Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
In one of my discussions with the police after they interrogated my perp, one of the cops told me that my perp spent most of his interrogation crying uncontrollably, and that by the end of the interview he was terrified.

My reaction to this was odd. Rather than feeling what I expected to feel, i.e., vindication, I surprised myself by feeling sorry for him. My exact thought was, "boy, I bet he is really scared."

Now don't get me wrong, I am still very angry at him, and we aren't likely to go out for beers anytime soon. It's more that I don't like seeing other people suffer. I guess my response may have been a reflection of that. All I know is as bad as it feels to be a victim, I don't really have anything to fear any more. My perp, on the other hand, now has to live in constant fear that he will be arrested.

Maybe it is because I have lived in fear for so long that I am sympathetic for any other human, even a criminal like a perp, who has to live that way.

Any thoughts?

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19391 - 05/08/06 04:55 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Nobby,

What your post shows me is that you are a compassionate person who feels for the pain and fear of others, even if their dilemma is of their own creation and even if it arises from terrible crimes committed against you.

The way we view the perps who hurt us can be very complicated, I think. I remember when the man who abused me got chased off I didn't feel "saved" at all. I didn't even understand that it was over. I missed him, even though he had hurt me so horrifically, and I felt that somehow I was being rejected or abandoned. Go figure.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19392 - 05/08/06 05:00 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
he was not arrested? at that time? yeah i'll bet he was scared ,but of what? maybe of the fact that what he did made him an animal even among other criminals? there is a big difference betwwen fear and remorse,all perps have one but none of them have the other,he didnt cry for you or what he did to you,he cried because he got caught!i dont think the crying he did was the same as the crying you did . i hope he rots in hell right beside my perp . shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19394 - 05/08/06 05:56 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Yes, that's it. Adam makes an excellent point - that the abuser is just weeping at the idea now he is caught and will be exposed, imprisoned, and so on, and isn't thinking of what he has done to his victim(s). But Nobby is talking about something else. He's getting at the feeling a compassionate person can have for the suffering of others, WITHOUT at the same time feeling that that other person is innocent or not deserving of punishment.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19395 - 05/08/06 08:27 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Nobby, I learned to forgive, not really to save perps, but to save me from more hurt.

It makes you feel more whole at being able to show compassion to someone who caused great hurt.
It is harder to forgive my older brother who just hammered it into me daily.

I bet he was quaking in his shoes at the thought of being beaten in prison, and abused himself, because a lot of the guys in prison were abused as kids themselves.

The only thing I would want to learn is that kids are safe from any more hurt.
That is the difficult bit,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#19396 - 05/08/06 10:33 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Nobby,

Personally, I'd much rather be in a place where I could feel pity for the person that abused me than to feel unresolved anger. It's poison to me. It fills my whole being with a putrid stench, and kills my spirit.

That does not mean that I would not want him punished or that I do not think he deserves whatever might happen to him as a result of his actions toward me and other children. I just refuse to waste any more time on the guy(s). At best, I can only work myself up to ambivalence toward them rather than pity, but at least that is not destroying myself with hatred.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19397 - 05/09/06 02:57 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Nobby,

Mixture of feelings surrounding one's perp? Hmmmm....yeah. I identified a lot with Larry's post about feeling that he missed his perp after he got chased off. After I had my adult falling-out with my brother so many decades after the abuse, I missed my brother terribly. I felt horror at what I had said to him in our last substantive conversation, shock at what I perceived as feelings of elation that I had broken free from him, and that yes, I had hurt him. Felt that he didn't care about me, so I no longer had to care about him.

And now, almost five years later, I am still wandering around this minefield of feelings. I cannot bring myself to be angry with him for the decades-old incest, only for his more recent erratic and controlling behaviors. And I do have to wonder what he had been through at twelve that he acted as he did toward me, a nine-year-old.

Part of me says it's nonsense to wonder, that that's his story and it doesn't add or detract from mine in any way. Another part of me says that wondering isn't nonsense, that it's actually harmful for me, that I'm still putting him ahead of me, protecting him by making him out as the one more hurting. Still another part says that compassion demands that I wonder, and that I would actually be less human if I did not. I think all of these 'voices' have value, all of the feelings are true, valid. But goddamnit it's hard to reconcile them.

I hope your feelings toward your perp come from some better place than mine toward my brother. I know that there is a focus by some here on forgiveness as the ultimate goal of healing. I don't know if I will get there, as I don't yet know exactly what the harm was, what it is that I should be so mad at him for. I've been furious at my parents (although I've not communicated this anger to them), but I cannot feel it, not really, for my brother. I believe that your post expresses the worthier goal of not being a victim forever -- of leaving the hurt of the trauma behind, correcting or learning to cope with the damage as much as one can, and of moving ahead. I think this can certainly include forgiveness, but I can't quite see that it *has* to.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

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#19398 - 05/09/06 05:11 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Well I know a lot of my perp's history, because my family has know him for years. He was severely abused. Doesn't make what he did/does right, but it does put it into perspective.

We are lucky because we are at least able to understand that there is an end to pain. My perp may never learn he can recover from his pain until it's too late. In fact, he may be in for a lot more of it if he is charged and goes to jail. And the thought of all that suffering makes me very sad. At the same time I would be relieved if he went to jail, because I know kids will be safe from him.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19399 - 05/09/06 05:13 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i could never intentionaly hurt another human being ,but then i dont consider perps human.adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19402 - 05/09/06 01:48 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

I think this is very important:

Quote:
Part of me says it's nonsense to wonder, that that's his story and it doesn't add or detract from mine in any way. Another part of me says that wondering isn't nonsense, that it's actually harmful for me, that I'm still putting him ahead of me, protecting him by making him out as the one more hurting. Still another part says that compassion demands that I wonder, and that I would actually be less human if I did not. I think all of these 'voices' have value, all of the feelings are true, valid. But goddamnit it's hard to reconcile them.
There is something here for Little John, who is, after all, still a little kid and thinks of his world as revolving around himself and his needs - same as every little kid would think. For him the question is this: "Is it possible that I meant so little to my own big brother that he would do that to me just for sexual pleasure? Is that all I was to him?"

If there was something else in the mix, if the big brother was himself abused, then for Little John that changes everything. His brother hurt him because older kids or adults had hurt his brother and confused him. The reason wasn't that Little John meant nothing more to him than this.

Some questions, of course, will always defeat our efforts to find answers, and yes, at some point we have to stop looking and move forward in our healing. But however this works out in terms of getting answers, I bet THIS is why the issue is important to Little John in the first place.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19403 - 05/09/06 02:48 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
I recently heard a wonderful interpretation given to Forgiveness:

It is giving up the hope that the past would be any different. It is acceptance of the past, and then moving on knowing that it is over.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#19405 - 05/09/06 05:24 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
abuse is no excuse in fact as with us our abuse made it impossible for us to be abusers. past abuse is no excuse. shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19407 - 05/09/06 05:57 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
As far as I am aware, the perv that groomed and abused me never cried any of the times he got arrested (not even for himself).

He still denies doing anything. He still smirks his way around town. Don't think I'll be forgiving him, or shaking his hand any time soon! I'd rather shake his neck!

Best wishes....Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#19408 - 05/09/06 09:50 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
sexslave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas
Perp or criminal? Lets look at them for what they are. They are pedophiles and child molesters. Don't change the name to give them any validity. Call them what the are. A nicer name will not make what happened any nicer or make the act any prettier.

_________________________
James Fox

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#19409 - 05/09/06 09:56 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
sexslave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas
Rik,

Have you spoken out to identify this man for what he is. Don't think that he stopped with you!

_________________________
James Fox

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#19410 - 05/09/06 10:00 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
sexslave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas
Nobby,

Have no sympathy nor empathy for a pedophile, child molester/rapist. When you start to feel that away think about him doing this to your children or neices and nephews. You will not feel sorry for him any more.

_________________________
James Fox

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#19411 - 05/09/06 10:56 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
sexslave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas
Rik,

Interesting you used the word "groomed". I was put into that position as well, no pun intended. I was very well trained.

_________________________
James Fox

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#19412 - 05/09/06 11:40 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by reality2k4:
I learned to forgive, not really to save perps, but to save me from more hurt.
I think Ste makes a good point. I feel I've been killing myself from the inside because I refuse to let some things go. In fact, I don't want to let them go--I can't. It's who I've become.

I literally spend hours and hours alone thinking about my abuse and how I never experienced being loved and how my family was cruel to me. I've spent so much time doing this that it's become my favorite hobby and career. That's where all my energy and time go into--I have no identity of my own. I do not know who I am because I've convinced myself I am what my memories tell me. (For those philosophically inclined: the I that thinks is not the same as the I that is.)

My memories range from being raped to seeing my mother try to commit suicide in front of me. Most of these happened while I was very young. Yet for all their terror, these things aren't happening right now. These happened in my distant past but those memories are slowly killing me now, not my abusers.

What happened was terrible, unjust, and inhuman. But what happened is over now and it's time for me to move on and to go live my life. It's bad enough that he took my childhood from me but why should I give him the rest of my life? He's taken so much already. Not just the obvious like relationships and self-worth but even the little things like not feeling okay in public or being ashamed to use a public urinal.

The last time I saw my abuser he had a stroke and is now partially paralyzed on the right side. Before that, he had clogged arteries and needed a quadruple bypass. Now he can't even walk without losing his breath and he needs a cane. This man who can't even walk nor speak is the same man who once dominated my world. It boggles my mind--yet like some piece of wood, I feel nothing.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#19413 - 05/10/06 02:23 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
Jesse makes a good point:
Quote:
I literally spend hours and hours alone thinking about my abuse and how I never experienced being loved and how my family was cruel to me. I've spent so much time doing this that it's become my favorite hobby and career. That's where all my energy and time go into--I have no identity of my own. I do not know who I am because I've convinced myself I am what my memories tell me. (For those philosophically inclined: the I that thinks is not the same as the I that is.)
Abuse, especially in families that are abusive sexually or in other ways, or are not supportive when the abuse comes from out of the family, contributes to the damage. It is usually more complex than the "hate the perp" feelings that some people have.

Abusers come in different packages. While all have done some damage to their victims, there is a difference between those who show no remorse and those who feel guilt for what they've done. Those who can only see them as monsters who have no redeeming qualities and paint that picture on all abusers do little to help those who had relationships with their perpetrators and may have ambivalent feelings towards them. The degree of denial versus remorse may be a factor in a person's definition of self or how they define their victimization and relationship to the abuser or the family.

I'm not suggesting that survivors should like or love their perpetrators because of their relationships with them prior to or after the abuse. I'm only saying that not everyone looks at the abuse or the abuser the same way. That may be hard for those who want to demonize the abuser but bear in mind that people have different reactions to the abuse and the abuser.

This is a controversial area that people here have debated for the 10 or so years I've been here. I recognize this position may be controversial but if it helps generate some discussion and perhaps some changes in position based on what is written here, it may be worth it.

I truly believe, working with abusers and survivors for more than 25 years, that being open to new ideas can help healing and growth. So, even if your first reaction is to condemn or criticize a position different from your own, sit back and read the experience and positions of others as a way for healing.

Ken


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#19414 - 05/10/06 04:08 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I see it this way. Newborn babies are not pedophiles or murderers or robbers. They are born innocent. Something happens along the way to some of them and it makes them do evil things. I personally don't believe in the "nature" theory; that people are born evil; I honestly think that criminals are a product of their environment.

Therefore, all people, even perps, are born innocent, and, despite what they may become later, I can't forget that for at least one time in their lives, the perps were as innocent as I was when I was born.

The real crime is not so much what the individual perps are doing. It is the horrific cycle of abuse that keeps turning innocent, happy babies into criminals and abusers. Somehow we must stop this cycle. And I don't think the answer to stopping it is hate and anger. Like the movie says, anger leads to the Dark Side. Anger and abuse are what turned the perps into what they are, and I fear that it would turn me into something I wouldn't like if I allowed anger and hate to rule me.

So when I say I feel sorry for my perp, yes, I am assuming his tears are real. I fully understand that they may not be real and that he might be faking it. However, if they real tears; coming from that hidden shred of an innocent child left within my perp, what do I become if I ignore those tears and continue to hate him? Do we not owe it to ourselves and humanity to reach out to that innocent child, and in failing to do so, do we also fail humanity?

And just as a disclaimer, this does not mean in any way that I condone my perp's crimes. I just feel that instead of harsh punishments, maybe justice might be better served if we tried to reach through and allow the perps the opportunity to rehabilitate themselves, and in so doing, end the cycle of abuse. If the perps are unable to rehabilitate, that I completely support measures such as removing them from public life, as they would pose too much of a threat to children if allowed to be at large.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19415 - 05/10/06 05:34 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
sexslave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas
Rehabilitate?! They will always pose a threat. Harsh punishments? They get fed and clothed, receive medical care, watch TV etc.. You and I pay that for them to do that. That is little satisfaction. Is life in prison difficult for them, yes! That is least of my concerns. Are some raped in prison and beaten, yes. Most should enjoy the return of affection, to bad if they don't. In California they are segregated from the regular prison population and enjoy playing basketball together in a safe environment. I did not get that safe environment, did you? To worry about the hashness of punishments they receive is ridiculous. As many times as I was raped and prostituted through the years I did not go out and continue the pattern of abuse. I turned it on myself.

What is so damn special about the word "Perp"? Does it sound kinder and gentler? Are we that damn politically correct that we cannot identify them for what they are...Pedophiles and Child Molesters/Rapists. This society has spent enough time turning there heads to the problem, looking away because they do not want to admit that these things happen. In this forum I would never have expected a dumb down for the sake of not wanting to offend or make others feel uncomfortable.

_________________________
James Fox

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#19417 - 05/10/06 06:19 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
sexslave Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 16
Loc: Texas
You have to compare apples to apples. You cannot take one rare instance and apply it to all. Once you are in your late teens and into adulthood you are accountable period. His offenses at 11 are sad but the conviction shows intent.

My comments are based on the 99% of pedophiles and child molesters and rapists that are out there. You can't take an isolated instance and use that as a discussion point. The majority are never changed. That is fact! To hell with there crocidile tears. They will not find sympathy or empathy at my feet. They are only upset because the got caught. They were not very remorseful when they were doing the deed. Look at the broader picture and stop trying to make silk out of a sow's ear.

_________________________
James Fox

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#19418 - 05/10/06 06:34 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
SS - yes I did speak out, as many of those that have been here for a while know! It ended in court this year!

Jacob - I can understand that the case you refer to may be different to those that most of us have expereinced! I can see that there may be some differences when it is a young person that is the perp, the level of understanding will be different to that of an adult perp.

I really only know the circumstances of my own case, and that is the only one that I can fully comment on! I do however believe that I could never forgive an adult that stole a child's right to a 'normal' childhood.

Breaking the cycle - why did we not repeat the cycle?

In this country, the judiciary and government have experimented for too long by pandering to the criminals. The result is that we are rapidly loosing the tolerant society that we once had. There are more people now, than ever before that believe they can just take anything they want, from anyone they want. They know they will not suffer for doing so! Stuff teh criminals (literally wouldn't be such a bad thing for some of them).

When people go to prison, they should not have better living conditions than the people they have mugged, raped, robbed or even worse! Should they repeat offend, they should only receive the bare necessities in prison, without parole!

Parole Officers in my experience are just a bunch of do gooders that find excuses for criminals - they don't give a damn about the victims of crime! I could go on at length... but you either already have the same opinion as myself, or you don't. I'm not looking for converts!

Best wishes ...Rik

Best wishes,...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#19419 - 05/10/06 08:48 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
I agree with Nobby in that our lives need to be about more than just vengeance and retribution. Personally, I feel ambivalence toward the individuals that were my victimizeers. Both of them are dead and gone, and for that I am glad, but somehow I can't find it within myself to fill my heart with hatred of them. I do hate what they did to me, I mourn it even, but I cannot hate. It is poison.

I, too, find myself wondering about the innocent child that Jimmy or taxi guy once were and mourn the fact that they also had to have had their lives devastatingly shattered in order to be able to do the things to me that they did.

Let's do everything we can to break the cycle, guys. If that means abandoning the perps to rot in prison, so be it. If that means educating the public in regards SA, let's do it. If it means confronting the perps wherever they happen to be, let's' do it. And, dare I say it, if that means shedding a few tears with a perp who is genuinely sorry for his actions, let's do it if we are able.

My $0.02 worth.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19420 - 05/10/06 09:33 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
If we take cops and all other authority out of the equation.
What are we left with?

If I take what Jacob said out of this thread.
This foster kid was locked up without being assessed the way he should have been.

So he goes through an offender institute for something he did not have complete control over.
Imagine the scenario, where an abused boy, takes it out on a perp and damages him.

The boy gets locked up, cops ask him why he did it, and they hit a wall of silence.
That is the tell-tale sign that the boy may have been abused by his victim, will the cops realise?
NO!

Look how many young guys in here who were locked up with nobody to listen, and even if they do listen, they do not know the hurt of abuse, only we do.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#19421 - 05/10/06 10:14 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Let me take this thread back to my original post. I am not arguing that it is ok to feel sorry for perps, I just found myself feeling sorry for one, and I was wondering at where these feelings were coming from.

I have to admit I am a bit shocked at some of the responses I have gotten. I did not want this to become yet another "hurt the perps" thread, or a discussion of semantics, but an open discussion of these feelings. Judging by the number of members who have PMed me to say they also have similar feelings, I don't think I am unique in feeling this way towards the perps. So I will again ask the members who are arguing that I am wrong to feel this way the question that they keep avoiding. If your perp was absolutely sincere in his regret, how would you feel about that? You do not need to post your answers, however, I would respectfully ask those who would have a negative answer and would like to post it to please explain why you would feel this way.

I am asking this because nobody has yet given me a convincing argument to hate my perp if he shows true remorse. And my intent at the beginning of this thread was to gain a better understanding of my own feelings, so I am very interested in understanding how others feel.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19422 - 05/10/06 11:55 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Nobby,

Quote:
If your perp was absolutely sincere in his regret, how would you feel about that?
Like so many things, I think this one will get a lot of different answers since we are all different people, have different experiences with abuse, and have to find our own ways to heal.

I personally think it's a good idea to think about this and I'm glad you started the thread.

Your question seems remote to me, since the man who abused me died in 1994. The way I feel is that he means nothing to me; I need all my emotional resources for myself, my family, my friends and my students. But if the perp were still alive I can imagine I would see things very differently.

I think I would find it difficult to be impressed by expressions of remorse, since he also abused my best friend and other boys in the Scout troop, and who knows how many others that I will never know about.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19423 - 05/11/06 12:21 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
kuurt Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 168
Loc: louisiana
deleted for privacy.
sorry,
kurt

_________________________
"if it keeps on rainin' the levee's gonna break.
and if the levee breaks, i'll have no place to stay"
-led zeppelin

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#19424 - 05/11/06 01:22 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
*****TRIGGERS*****

I think there is a difference between feeling sorry for a perp and having a sense of compassion.

I have a relative who is in the Federal penitentiary in Victorville, CA for sexually abusing his wife's son who was conceived as the result of an illicit affair she had. He lives every day if fear that the inmates there will find out the reason for his incarceration and kill him.

I don't feel sorry for him in that regard. What he is experiencing is a direct result of his evil actions against an innocent child. I do however have a certain amount of compassion for the little boy in him that is still crying out in pain over the evil that was perpetrated on him by his dysfunctional family.

Does that lessen, or should it lessen his punishment? Not on your life. He made a deliberate choice to fuck that little boy repeatedly and post the pictures of it on the internet. He has it coming, whatever "it" may turn out to be.

OK, now I've shared another $0.02 worth so my allotment is used up.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19425 - 05/11/06 03:17 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5778
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
SexSlave wrote:
Quote:
My comments are based on the 99% of pedophiles and child molesters and rapists that are out there. You can't take an isolated instance and use that as a discussion point. The majority are never changed. That is fact!
I could ask you where you got that figure but it is inaccurate. Recidivism rates for sexual abusers as a whole are quite low (though I believe that any recidivism is totally wrong and bad for the person who is abused.)

Fact is that the overwhelming majority of abusers who get sex offense-specific treatment do not repeat their offenses. There is ample research on this and you can go to http://www.csom.org, (sponsored by the Office of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice.)

Emotional reaction to sexual abuse is understandable. You didn't ask to be abused and the abuse was damaging to you (or else you wouldn't be here). Everyone has his own route to healing. If someone chooses to forgive or at least recognize that not all abusers are pedophiles (a clinical term that does not mean that everyone who abuses a child is a pedophile) or rapists, that is their choice.

Although I am in agreement that developmentally, a child or adolescent who abuses is different from an adult (and should be treated differently), not all adults who abuse are habitual or untreatable.

I have treated and/or evaluated several thousand sexual abusers ranging from 10 to 80 over the years. While most are treatable (and some don't really need treatment) it is only a small percentage who are dangerous and likely to reoffend.

How you choose to feel about abusers is your call. If you want to hold onto anger and contempt that is your business. If you choose to forgive your perpetrator, that is your decision.

Understand that society treats sexual abusers harshly. If you think that is just punishment, that is your opinion. From my perspective of wanting to help keep children and vulnerable adults safe, I know that stigmatizing abusers, forcing them to move, become homeless, lose jobs and stability is counterproductive in promoting safety in the community. (That is another posting).

I just wanted to clarify an opinion that is not based on any recognized research.

Ken


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#19426 - 05/11/06 03:36 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
do the perps fell any compassion for the innocent child they raped why would i want to feel compassion for them as children i dont know if they were ever innocent ,should i base forgivness on the fact that maybe my perp had a reason for what he did? i guess it sems like those of us here who hate the fucking perps are wrong but it feels right to me .i dont let that hate consume me ,it keeps me warm at night .in my case only no one elses i think forgiving him would be the ultimate act of surrender to him , or maybe some of us are further along in healing that we dont remember the pain the shame the paralizing fear or the dread of knowing what is comming .if i can ever get to that place maybe i'll see it differently ,but for now i must agree that perps are fucking evil ,all perps they never stop they just get better at hiding or they dont leave anyone behind to tell on them.they are masters of manipulation ,no one can deny that ,so why would i belive that someone who has spent their life acting normal has suddenly got reformed ? sorry i dont mean to argue here ,but this subject is very hard for me

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19427 - 05/11/06 03:40 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
just wated to add that if anyone thinks these animals cant manipulate the justice system .just look at the number of repeat offenders ,my perp did 7 years as a moldel prisoner ,got therapy got his doc to say he was safe to let out and was back in prison within one year ,those are stats that i know are true . its only one number but its a damn important one to me.ask the 15 year old he got busted with if he feels any compassion for the perp.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19428 - 05/11/06 04:35 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Adam,

Please don't misunderstand me. In my opinion, anyone that allows evil to infest his life to the point where he is willing, even eager to sexually abuse a child is going to have to understand they are setting themselves up to endure whatever punishment society exacts of them. And I have no sympathy for them in that situation. It is a consequence of their actions. Many times they get off far to easy in my opinion.

I truly hear what you are saying. I guess where I feel different from you is this. take my relative, as an example. I know the kind of S**T he had to put up with as a small child. I can imagine him being so hurt by what was done to him. He was so alone and vulnerable. His mother couldn't stand him and his father couldn't or wouldn't relate. He was subjected to the same degrading SA that we here on the site were, and from a very young age. I have compassion for that little boy.

Where it goes wrong is where he made the decision to continue the cycle of abuse on other innocent children. That, I have no patience for and I've told him so. I've told him that he had choices and repeatedly made the wrong ones. He knows that I have no sympathy for his plight in prison. I've questioned him on the integrity of his sorrow for what he's done, because he continued in his evil path right up to the time he was caught. I've told him that if he had any integrity at all, he'd have turned himself in instead of waiting to get caught. He told me he thought he'd covered his tracks and would never get caught. So be it. He is now in the hands of others and he'll either survive it or he won't. I have no sympathy for him and his plight. period.

Forgiveness? That is not mine to give. It is only for those he abused to give him.

As far as you, or anyone else here who hates perps, being wrong, I don't think so. You have every reason to be resentful and even hateful about what's happened to you. I would not presume to accuse you of being wrong for feeling the way you do.

I would only say that for me I refuse to hate. For me, it is poison to hate. That does not mean I have to be all lovey dovey and kissy kissy toward a perp. I'd rather not waste my time thinking about them. I'd rather spend my time focusing on how I can recover and help others recover from what these creeps have done.

Please know, Adam, that I do not hold you to be less of a person because of the way you feel on this subject any more than I would want you to feel resentful to me for the way I choose to look at it. Each of us has to find a path that works for us and take it. I know you would be more than willing to help me along the path where you are able, and vise-versa.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19430 - 05/11/06 10:48 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Quote:
sorry i dont mean to argue here ,but this subject is very hard for me
And that is why you should talk about it. I'm very glad you are doing so and I hope you will continue.

At the same time, Adam, try to keep your options open. You say that your hate for your perp keeps you warm at night. The problem is that this warmth comes at a price. It's down to a matter of how we use our emotional resources. As you heal you will find a lot more positive things to feel warm and fulfilled about. I am quite sure of that.

But in the interim just set your own pace. Others can comment on what you say, but only you can determine what you will do.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19431 - 05/11/06 05:00 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I find myself shedding a lot of tears every time I read a new post to this thread.

To answer my own challenge, I honestly don't know what I would do if my perp showed sincere regret for his actions. I hope that I would have the courage to accept him as a brother, but he is also my biggest betrayer. I know we are supposed to forgive and love our enemies, but that hurt runs deep. A big part of me would want to beat him into the ground, but I know that that is just the hate and anger, and that beating him up would only add to the evil in the world. I refuse to allow more evil to enter this world through my actions.

In all honesty, I would probably cry if he showed true remorse. A lot. After that I don't know what I would do. I guess I would hope that the answer would be revealed to me at that time.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19432 - 05/12/06 03:08 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
This post is highly controversial. I can't say I'm in total agreement with either side.

Quote:
Originally posted by sexslave:

My comments are based on the 99% of pedophiles and child molesters and rapists that are out there. You can't take an isolated instance and use that as a discussion point. The majority are never changed. That is fact!
I don't know if SS' facts are empirically correct or not but let's just assume for the moment that they are correct. What of the 1% that is left over? Are they to be denied a chance to change their lives or are they guilty by association? Should we risk punishing someone who has truly had a change in heart just for the sake of controlling those other 99% that are truly wicked?

This seems to me like a very utilitarian approach. Utilitarianism is only concerned with seeing people as a whole but not as individuals. Because of this, some individuals may be punished who don't actually deserve punishment. i.e. keeping a reformed and repented sexual molester in prison for life. We are all individuals and most of us don't fit any established pattern. Every case in this sense is unique so we shouldn't be quick to judge any one particular case based on what the overall evidence is telling us. I'm not religious but even the Bible says:

Which one of you, if he has 100 sheep, and one strays from the flock, will not leave the 99 sheep in the wilderness — vulnerable to wolves, wandering off, and other all manner of mischief — and go out and beat the bushes until you find your one lost sheep?


Quote:
Originally posted by walkingsouth:
Let's do everything we can to break the cycle, guys. If that means abandoning the perps to rot in prison, so be it. If that means educating the public in regards SA, let's do it. If it means confronting the perps wherever they happen to be, let's' do it. And, dare I say it, if that means shedding a few tears with a perp who is genuinely sorry for his actions, let's do it if we are able.
I must also respectfully disagree with John too. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it. And just because one approach is very effective and gets us the result we wanted, it doesn't automatically make it the best approach or even the right approach. There may in fact be a better approach that is just as effective and we haven't found it yet. Or they may be some that are less effective but don't cause as much unnecessary suffering. Of course, this probably means some experimenting may be necessary and it may in fact require that some reformed molesters suffer in the process until we can figure out the best way of dealing with offenders.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#19433 - 05/12/06 05:35 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
I have had recently one of my perpetrators, the 'main' perpetrator perhaps, approach me and another person he abuse, offering explanation, some apology, and asking basically, 'what do you want me to do about this, do you want me turn myself to police?' He was very 'controlled' of his emotions, and he say, he not asking for understanding or forgiveness, he knows he is not right to either. He write letter to me, and to other person, and I also speak with him on phone. He sounded very much sincere, and honest. I am not certain of what to believe and how much. But it is strange. Before, always I felt bad for him, sad for him, because I feel, how very dark his heart must be, and I am at least better of that. Now, it seem I know some the darkness inside him, and part, I still feel very bad for someone, anyone who must live those feelings. But, for some reason, now that he tell me of this, I feel more anger at him then I use to. I am not sure of why. But I been more grouchey for some time now then I ever been anyway, so maybe is just something of me.

Andrei


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#19434 - 05/12/06 05:38 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Nobby,

Quote:
I hope that I would have the courage to accept him as a brother, but he is also my biggest betrayer.
I guess you have it there -- we feel badly for the hurt we see in others because we know we hurt, too; we feel badly towards those who betray because we were betrayed. Sometimes, and if I understand Ken correctly then perhaps often, these capacities co-exist in individuals. Hmmmm...we have the capacity to be hurt, because we are human and we have the capacity to betray, for the same reason. So, I believe what it comes down to is that one can be victim/victimizer, a wounded betrayer, a traumatized perp. It doesn't surprise me to hear this from Ken, I've never thought that the evil people do is ever super-human, not even when it rises to the genocidal level of a Hitler or Stalin. It's just too ordinary, I think. I don't know why our abusers did what they did, but I also don't for a moment think that just because I don't know that reason nor can understand the essential 'why' of my experience, that I have the right to project my inability to know or comprehend onto the abuser and render him less human than I am. He, too, has an inability to know or comprehend my experience, but he projected onto me, made me less human in his mind. There for me is the nub of it -- I can be better than him without recreating him in the image of a caricature of evil. Cartoons are fun and educational to a point, but I get more out of novels.

Sorry for the ramble-ish. Bur if you read this, I thank you for your patience.

Johnboy

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

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#19435 - 05/12/06 05:40 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Jesse,

You are painting yourself with your own brush here, my friend. You just got through saying that a utilitarian approach is not appropriate. When I suggest there may be more than one approach to confronting the problem, you reject that as being wrong also, so what do you want?

I do not recall suggesting that a reformed molester not pay society's price for his crimes if he expresses sorrow. I would not be able to live with myself if I believed such a thing.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19436 - 05/12/06 06:02 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
COULD TRIGGER! does anybody remember how it felt? inside and out? the pain? the unbearable pain ?the sweat breaking out from the pain ,the disgust?the praying it would just stop?the wanting to die and hating god cause he wont let you? hating yourself for being so weak that you couldnt even end it youself? hating the god damn will to live that kept you alive? the rotten breath in your face ,the crushing weight on top of you ,so much that you couldnt move your chest to get air in ? throwing up ,dry heaving from being punched in the stomach ?did anybody wonder will he kill me this time?.these are the things that i have to deal with and they dont leave a lot of room to wonder if my perp was abused or had some twisted reason for wht he did ,maybe he doesnt understand why he did it either ,but i doubt if he is loosing any sleep over it. but i do respct anyone who can find a way to dump the anger and hate from their life ,if forgiving does that for you then forgiving is the best thing you can do .i might even forgive him for what he is, maybe he is a product of how he grew up but i will never forgive him for what he did. i'm sorry if this brings up strong emotions for anyone but it is whats inside of me.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19437 - 05/12/06 06:11 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Adam,

I like your post. You know, I cannot say that I have forgiven taxi guy. He is simply not a huge thing in my life. I don't really think about him unless it comes up here. When it does, it's like he in a nonentity to me. Yeah, he did what he did to me, and it's affect on my life was pretty devastating, but I simply think past him and go on to the work I need to do to recover. That, at least for now, is what seems to work best for me.

There may be a time when my mind will be ready to deal with other stuff concerning him, but that time is not now.

I think you are doing good work in processing this stuff about the guy that violated you. Just keep posting and talking about it as you need to. Be honest with yourself, and the things that need to happen in regards to all this will happen in their own time.

You have my admiration and support.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19438 - 05/12/06 06:16 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Quote:
Originally posted by shadowkid:
COULD TRIGGER! does anybody remember how it felt? inside and out? the pain? the unbearable pain ?the sweat breaking out from the pain ,the disgust?the praying it would just stop?the wanting to die and hating god cause he wont let you? hating yourself for being so weak that you couldnt even end it youself? hating the god damn will to live that kept you alive? the rotten breath in your face ,the crushing weight on top of you ,so much that you couldnt move your chest to get air in ? throwing up ,dry heaving from being punched in the stomach ?did anybody wonder will he kill me this time?.these are the things that i have to deal with and they dont leave a lot of room to wonder if my perp was abused or had some twisted reason for wht he did ,maybe he doesnt understand why he did it either ,but i doubt if he is loosing any sleep over it. but i do respct anyone who can find a way to dump the anger and hate from their life ,if forgiving does that for you then forgiving is the best thing you can do .i might even forgive him for what he is, maybe he is a product of how he grew up but i will never forgive him for what he did. i'm sorry if this brings up strong emotions for anyone but it is whats inside of me.
Shadow,

I remember very much how it felt. I still have panic, I still have flashbacks, I still have nightmares, and have not slept for more then 3 hours in a night for weeks. But the abuse do not make me not human. The abuse did not change me into someone NOT able to feel compassion to other people, even ones who tortured me in every way you can imagine. I am ME. NOT what was done to me. If I can or do feel pity or compassion to anyone, that is of ME, not them.

Andrei


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#19439 - 05/12/06 06:59 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
One of the things that tore me up so much - something that some here certainly can relate to - was the cognitive dissonance created by the fact that although once I figured out my abuse was abuse I was disgusted and horrified, I couldn't forget that it felt "good" when it happened. Of course, now I know the difference between programmed physical reaction and emotional pleasure - but I didn't then. Sometimes, back then, I wished that my abuse HAD been violent, or painful, or traumatic. That way, I reasoned, I'd have hated it all along, so at least I wouldn't be so emotionally embattled over it.

Eventually I got over that, and just had to deal with the fact that I couldn't tell anybody about my abuse because of the damage such an admission would cause to my family and my life. The cognitive dissonance here came from knowing, almost certainly, that my co-victims were still being abused and that I could end their abuse by telling. What a dilemma for a 13-year-old. I finally simply made peace with the fact that I was a selfish prick. Lost a lot of self-esteem over that.

But now, however many years later, I'm considering the question this thread asks, and experiencing that old cognitive dissonance again. What if my perps were caught - or better, turned themselves in - and seemed genuinely remorseful? How am I supposed to feel? There are a few feelings I've developed regarding pedophiles - chief amongst them being the fact that there is NO excuse for child abuse, and that there is simply no way my abusers could be punished which would put them square with me again. On the flip side, without considering pedophiles, I've learned over the years that no one is beyond redemption; that humans are not leopards and have no permanent "spots"; that when a good and upright man is apologized to sincerely, he accepts the apology and allows amends to be made. Two different, and necessarily mutually exclusive belief sets, which sit in seperate little cubicles in my mind. I have never allowed them to touch - I wouldn't enjoy the ensuing battle, because whichever side wins, I lose. If I have mercy on my abusers, then I am a flake who is willing to go back on his principles; if I refuse to extend some sort of pardon, then I am cruel, merciless, or generally unreasonable. So, I suppose I've built some kind of mental brick wall in between these two things in my mind, insulating them from each other. Unfortunately, this brick wall won't allow me to come up with a decent answer to the question.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

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#19440 - 05/12/06 08:37 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by walkingsouth:

You just got through saying that a utilitarian approach is not appropriate. When I suggest there may be more than one approach to confronting the problem, you reject that as being wrong also, so what do you want?

John,

My apologies for misuderstanding you. From reading your first suggestion, I originally understood it to mean: whatever works is what needs to be done even if it means locking them up, or punishing them, or forgiving them, etc... I disagree with this purely get-results approach. Whether a method works or not, that is, it stops an abuser from abusing others, is only one part of the solution--there's more to it than that. e.g. Suppose we discovered through research that locking up offenders for ten years would stop them from ever molesting again. Is this okay just because it gives results and is very effective? On the other hand, what if we knew that forgiving offenders would always change them for the better? Again, it would give the results but it doesn't consider everyone's situation. Some offenders and offenses are worse than others and some victims may want more than justice--vengeance(I don't agree)for example. That's why I believe there is no solution to cover all cases and that's also why utilitarianism fails.

So like you, I too feel it is necessary to focus on the individuals involved and their particular situation and needs. I am open to a variety of possibilities, not just punishing all offenders or simply forgiving them or just doing what is most pragmatic. I think we are in agreement but we just miscommunicated. Hope that clears it up my friend.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#19441 - 05/12/06 11:53 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam,

this forgiveness thing is about forgiving yourself.
It is you that gets hurt through living the past in the present.

None of us can say anything to another to fix the hurt done to them, we can only listen.
Anger in the past did me a load of harm, that is why I chose to forgive.

To save me, just like you need to save YOU,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#19442 - 05/12/06 02:27 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by shadowkid:
[QB] COULD TRIGGER! does anybody remember how it felt? inside and out? the pain? the unbearable pain ?the sweat breaking out from the pain ,the disgust?the praying it would just stop?the wanting to die and hating god cause he wont let you? hating yourself for being so weak that you couldnt even end it youself? hating the god damn will to live that kept you alive? /QB]
Adam, I remember every one of them, except the last one. The will to keep me alive is also the will that is getting me past the pain.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19443 - 05/12/06 02:30 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by melliferal:
So, I suppose I've built some kind of mental brick wall in between these two things in my mind, insulating them from each other. Unfortunately, this brick wall won't allow me to come up with a decent answer to the question.
On the contrary, I think this was a brilliant answer to the question. You have perfectly expressed the conflict that I think we all feel inside.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19444 - 05/12/06 05:21 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Melliferal,

You have indeed "perfectly expressed the conflict", at least the one I see in myself. Thanks.

Jesse,

Yes, it does appear that we both misunderstood each other. Thanks for speaking up and clarifying your viewpoint. Yes, it would appear we are pretty close to thinking alike on the issue. \:\)

Have a good day, guys.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19445 - 05/12/06 06:23 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I hope I am not diverting the thread , but I would like to add something about this from a somewhat different perspective.

Do we "choose" whom we love or hate or forgive or don't forgive, or is that a spontaneous response that builds up in us based on emotions or feelings that we may not even see developing? I remember the evening I realized I was in love with my future wife. I had just come home from dinner at her parents' home in Beirut, and I found myself pacing back and forth, unable to figure out what was getting to me like this.

Then it hit me. Oh my God, I love her. I was overwhelmed and just leaned on the wall and sobbed for a few minutes. It hadn't occurred to me that I was capable of love.

I am not arguing here, just wondering if we are asking the right question.

If I feel bad for someone, or forgive him, is that something that I decide about in some logical way, or is it something that emerged from me as an emotional response, reflecting more who I am that what I want?

I leave it at that, but for the record I don't mean to say that if someone doesn't feel bad for a perp or forgive him, then that survivor is emotionally lacking. I definitely don't forgive the man who abused me, nor do I feel compassion or pity for his dead ass. But at the same time I feel I am a caring person myself.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19447 - 05/13/06 08:40 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I once asked the question here, 'has anyone ever received a genuine apology from a perp'?

There were only about 4 responses in the affirmative! There are over 3200 survivors registered here - it's not a very high percentage of people that have received apologies is it!

Why feel sorry for perps...sod them, the majority do not give a damn about us!

I am still angry at 'my perp'. It doesn't mean that I walk around ranting and raving all day! It doesn't mean that I haven't forgiven myself! It just means that I will never forgive him - if I spotted him on fire in the street, I wouldn't waste my **** on him!

I am important as are you ! Pervs....sorry, never!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#19448 - 05/13/06 09:38 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Guys,

I'm wondering if, just perhaps, the different reactions to the subject matter in this discussion can be explained by such a simple thing as each of our diverse personalities.

I for example tend to be on the emotional end of the spectrum in the personality test given me by my T. My wife on the other hand tends toward the cognitive/analytical end of the spectrum. Consequently we tend to have very diverse reactions from each other on subjects such as this.

Just a thought which I don't necessarily support at this moment (I'm too emotional ;\) ), but am wondering if others have some input on the question.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19449 - 05/14/06 12:41 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
maybe it could also be that even though abuse is abuse ,it affects people on different levels ,due to lots of things, someone who is groomed into abuse is affected in totaly different ways than someone who is physicaly forced into it .the damage done is the same but the things we have to react to are different .each case of abuse is exclusive to the person it happened to even though it was all abuse it is different for every one of us . and i think how we heal from it is whatever works for the individual. adam

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its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#463150 - 03/25/14 02:55 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp [Re: Nobbynobs]
jas4159 Offline


Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 278
i didn't understand why i felt sorry for my perp when i was standing over his grave, having been robbed of a chance to confront him. he was a very pathetic human being. But it was at the beginning of my recovery and i had not found my anger. my feelings changed when i found my anger thru recovery.
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Thanks

rich

justanothersurvivror.wordpress.com

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