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#19437 - 05/12/06 06:11 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Adam,

I like your post. You know, I cannot say that I have forgiven taxi guy. He is simply not a huge thing in my life. I don't really think about him unless it comes up here. When it does, it's like he in a nonentity to me. Yeah, he did what he did to me, and it's affect on my life was pretty devastating, but I simply think past him and go on to the work I need to do to recover. That, at least for now, is what seems to work best for me.

There may be a time when my mind will be ready to deal with other stuff concerning him, but that time is not now.

I think you are doing good work in processing this stuff about the guy that violated you. Just keep posting and talking about it as you need to. Be honest with yourself, and the things that need to happen in regards to all this will happen in their own time.

You have my admiration and support.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19438 - 05/12/06 06:16 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Quote:
Originally posted by shadowkid:
COULD TRIGGER! does anybody remember how it felt? inside and out? the pain? the unbearable pain ?the sweat breaking out from the pain ,the disgust?the praying it would just stop?the wanting to die and hating god cause he wont let you? hating yourself for being so weak that you couldnt even end it youself? hating the god damn will to live that kept you alive? the rotten breath in your face ,the crushing weight on top of you ,so much that you couldnt move your chest to get air in ? throwing up ,dry heaving from being punched in the stomach ?did anybody wonder will he kill me this time?.these are the things that i have to deal with and they dont leave a lot of room to wonder if my perp was abused or had some twisted reason for wht he did ,maybe he doesnt understand why he did it either ,but i doubt if he is loosing any sleep over it. but i do respct anyone who can find a way to dump the anger and hate from their life ,if forgiving does that for you then forgiving is the best thing you can do .i might even forgive him for what he is, maybe he is a product of how he grew up but i will never forgive him for what he did. i'm sorry if this brings up strong emotions for anyone but it is whats inside of me.
Shadow,

I remember very much how it felt. I still have panic, I still have flashbacks, I still have nightmares, and have not slept for more then 3 hours in a night for weeks. But the abuse do not make me not human. The abuse did not change me into someone NOT able to feel compassion to other people, even ones who tortured me in every way you can imagine. I am ME. NOT what was done to me. If I can or do feel pity or compassion to anyone, that is of ME, not them.

Andrei


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#19439 - 05/12/06 06:59 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
One of the things that tore me up so much - something that some here certainly can relate to - was the cognitive dissonance created by the fact that although once I figured out my abuse was abuse I was disgusted and horrified, I couldn't forget that it felt "good" when it happened. Of course, now I know the difference between programmed physical reaction and emotional pleasure - but I didn't then. Sometimes, back then, I wished that my abuse HAD been violent, or painful, or traumatic. That way, I reasoned, I'd have hated it all along, so at least I wouldn't be so emotionally embattled over it.

Eventually I got over that, and just had to deal with the fact that I couldn't tell anybody about my abuse because of the damage such an admission would cause to my family and my life. The cognitive dissonance here came from knowing, almost certainly, that my co-victims were still being abused and that I could end their abuse by telling. What a dilemma for a 13-year-old. I finally simply made peace with the fact that I was a selfish prick. Lost a lot of self-esteem over that.

But now, however many years later, I'm considering the question this thread asks, and experiencing that old cognitive dissonance again. What if my perps were caught - or better, turned themselves in - and seemed genuinely remorseful? How am I supposed to feel? There are a few feelings I've developed regarding pedophiles - chief amongst them being the fact that there is NO excuse for child abuse, and that there is simply no way my abusers could be punished which would put them square with me again. On the flip side, without considering pedophiles, I've learned over the years that no one is beyond redemption; that humans are not leopards and have no permanent "spots"; that when a good and upright man is apologized to sincerely, he accepts the apology and allows amends to be made. Two different, and necessarily mutually exclusive belief sets, which sit in seperate little cubicles in my mind. I have never allowed them to touch - I wouldn't enjoy the ensuing battle, because whichever side wins, I lose. If I have mercy on my abusers, then I am a flake who is willing to go back on his principles; if I refuse to extend some sort of pardon, then I am cruel, merciless, or generally unreasonable. So, I suppose I've built some kind of mental brick wall in between these two things in my mind, insulating them from each other. Unfortunately, this brick wall won't allow me to come up with a decent answer to the question.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

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#19440 - 05/12/06 08:37 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by walkingsouth:

You just got through saying that a utilitarian approach is not appropriate. When I suggest there may be more than one approach to confronting the problem, you reject that as being wrong also, so what do you want?

John,

My apologies for misuderstanding you. From reading your first suggestion, I originally understood it to mean: whatever works is what needs to be done even if it means locking them up, or punishing them, or forgiving them, etc... I disagree with this purely get-results approach. Whether a method works or not, that is, it stops an abuser from abusing others, is only one part of the solution--there's more to it than that. e.g. Suppose we discovered through research that locking up offenders for ten years would stop them from ever molesting again. Is this okay just because it gives results and is very effective? On the other hand, what if we knew that forgiving offenders would always change them for the better? Again, it would give the results but it doesn't consider everyone's situation. Some offenders and offenses are worse than others and some victims may want more than justice--vengeance(I don't agree)for example. That's why I believe there is no solution to cover all cases and that's also why utilitarianism fails.

So like you, I too feel it is necessary to focus on the individuals involved and their particular situation and needs. I am open to a variety of possibilities, not just punishing all offenders or simply forgiving them or just doing what is most pragmatic. I think we are in agreement but we just miscommunicated. Hope that clears it up my friend.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#19441 - 05/12/06 11:53 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam,

this forgiveness thing is about forgiving yourself.
It is you that gets hurt through living the past in the present.

None of us can say anything to another to fix the hurt done to them, we can only listen.
Anger in the past did me a load of harm, that is why I chose to forgive.

To save me, just like you need to save YOU,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#19442 - 05/12/06 02:27 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by shadowkid:
[QB] COULD TRIGGER! does anybody remember how it felt? inside and out? the pain? the unbearable pain ?the sweat breaking out from the pain ,the disgust?the praying it would just stop?the wanting to die and hating god cause he wont let you? hating yourself for being so weak that you couldnt even end it youself? hating the god damn will to live that kept you alive? /QB]
Adam, I remember every one of them, except the last one. The will to keep me alive is also the will that is getting me past the pain.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19443 - 05/12/06 02:30 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by melliferal:
So, I suppose I've built some kind of mental brick wall in between these two things in my mind, insulating them from each other. Unfortunately, this brick wall won't allow me to come up with a decent answer to the question.
On the contrary, I think this was a brilliant answer to the question. You have perfectly expressed the conflict that I think we all feel inside.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19444 - 05/12/06 05:21 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Melliferal,

You have indeed "perfectly expressed the conflict", at least the one I see in myself. Thanks.

Jesse,

Yes, it does appear that we both misunderstood each other. Thanks for speaking up and clarifying your viewpoint. Yes, it would appear we are pretty close to thinking alike on the issue. \:\)

Have a good day, guys.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19445 - 05/12/06 06:23 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I hope I am not diverting the thread , but I would like to add something about this from a somewhat different perspective.

Do we "choose" whom we love or hate or forgive or don't forgive, or is that a spontaneous response that builds up in us based on emotions or feelings that we may not even see developing? I remember the evening I realized I was in love with my future wife. I had just come home from dinner at her parents' home in Beirut, and I found myself pacing back and forth, unable to figure out what was getting to me like this.

Then it hit me. Oh my God, I love her. I was overwhelmed and just leaned on the wall and sobbed for a few minutes. It hadn't occurred to me that I was capable of love.

I am not arguing here, just wondering if we are asking the right question.

If I feel bad for someone, or forgive him, is that something that I decide about in some logical way, or is it something that emerged from me as an emotional response, reflecting more who I am that what I want?

I leave it at that, but for the record I don't mean to say that if someone doesn't feel bad for a perp or forgive him, then that survivor is emotionally lacking. I definitely don't forgive the man who abused me, nor do I feel compassion or pity for his dead ass. But at the same time I feel I am a caring person myself.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19447 - 05/13/06 08:40 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
I once asked the question here, 'has anyone ever received a genuine apology from a perp'?

There were only about 4 responses in the affirmative! There are over 3200 survivors registered here - it's not a very high percentage of people that have received apologies is it!

Why feel sorry for perps...sod them, the majority do not give a damn about us!

I am still angry at 'my perp'. It doesn't mean that I walk around ranting and raving all day! It doesn't mean that I haven't forgiven myself! It just means that I will never forgive him - if I spotted him on fire in the street, I wouldn't waste my **** on him!

I am important as are you ! Pervs....sorry, never!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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