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#19426 - 05/11/06 03:36 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
do the perps fell any compassion for the innocent child they raped why would i want to feel compassion for them as children i dont know if they were ever innocent ,should i base forgivness on the fact that maybe my perp had a reason for what he did? i guess it sems like those of us here who hate the fucking perps are wrong but it feels right to me .i dont let that hate consume me ,it keeps me warm at night .in my case only no one elses i think forgiving him would be the ultimate act of surrender to him , or maybe some of us are further along in healing that we dont remember the pain the shame the paralizing fear or the dread of knowing what is comming .if i can ever get to that place maybe i'll see it differently ,but for now i must agree that perps are fucking evil ,all perps they never stop they just get better at hiding or they dont leave anyone behind to tell on them.they are masters of manipulation ,no one can deny that ,so why would i belive that someone who has spent their life acting normal has suddenly got reformed ? sorry i dont mean to argue here ,but this subject is very hard for me

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19427 - 05/11/06 03:40 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
just wated to add that if anyone thinks these animals cant manipulate the justice system .just look at the number of repeat offenders ,my perp did 7 years as a moldel prisoner ,got therapy got his doc to say he was safe to let out and was back in prison within one year ,those are stats that i know are true . its only one number but its a damn important one to me.ask the 15 year old he got busted with if he feels any compassion for the perp.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#19428 - 05/11/06 04:35 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Adam,

Please don't misunderstand me. In my opinion, anyone that allows evil to infest his life to the point where he is willing, even eager to sexually abuse a child is going to have to understand they are setting themselves up to endure whatever punishment society exacts of them. And I have no sympathy for them in that situation. It is a consequence of their actions. Many times they get off far to easy in my opinion.

I truly hear what you are saying. I guess where I feel different from you is this. take my relative, as an example. I know the kind of S**T he had to put up with as a small child. I can imagine him being so hurt by what was done to him. He was so alone and vulnerable. His mother couldn't stand him and his father couldn't or wouldn't relate. He was subjected to the same degrading SA that we here on the site were, and from a very young age. I have compassion for that little boy.

Where it goes wrong is where he made the decision to continue the cycle of abuse on other innocent children. That, I have no patience for and I've told him so. I've told him that he had choices and repeatedly made the wrong ones. He knows that I have no sympathy for his plight in prison. I've questioned him on the integrity of his sorrow for what he's done, because he continued in his evil path right up to the time he was caught. I've told him that if he had any integrity at all, he'd have turned himself in instead of waiting to get caught. He told me he thought he'd covered his tracks and would never get caught. So be it. He is now in the hands of others and he'll either survive it or he won't. I have no sympathy for him and his plight. period.

Forgiveness? That is not mine to give. It is only for those he abused to give him.

As far as you, or anyone else here who hates perps, being wrong, I don't think so. You have every reason to be resentful and even hateful about what's happened to you. I would not presume to accuse you of being wrong for feeling the way you do.

I would only say that for me I refuse to hate. For me, it is poison to hate. That does not mean I have to be all lovey dovey and kissy kissy toward a perp. I'd rather not waste my time thinking about them. I'd rather spend my time focusing on how I can recover and help others recover from what these creeps have done.

Please know, Adam, that I do not hold you to be less of a person because of the way you feel on this subject any more than I would want you to feel resentful to me for the way I choose to look at it. Each of us has to find a path that works for us and take it. I know you would be more than willing to help me along the path where you are able, and vise-versa.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19430 - 05/11/06 10:48 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Quote:
sorry i dont mean to argue here ,but this subject is very hard for me
And that is why you should talk about it. I'm very glad you are doing so and I hope you will continue.

At the same time, Adam, try to keep your options open. You say that your hate for your perp keeps you warm at night. The problem is that this warmth comes at a price. It's down to a matter of how we use our emotional resources. As you heal you will find a lot more positive things to feel warm and fulfilled about. I am quite sure of that.

But in the interim just set your own pace. Others can comment on what you say, but only you can determine what you will do.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19431 - 05/11/06 05:00 PM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
I find myself shedding a lot of tears every time I read a new post to this thread.

To answer my own challenge, I honestly don't know what I would do if my perp showed sincere regret for his actions. I hope that I would have the courage to accept him as a brother, but he is also my biggest betrayer. I know we are supposed to forgive and love our enemies, but that hurt runs deep. A big part of me would want to beat him into the ground, but I know that that is just the hate and anger, and that beating him up would only add to the evil in the world. I refuse to allow more evil to enter this world through my actions.

In all honesty, I would probably cry if he showed true remorse. A lot. After that I don't know what I would do. I guess I would hope that the answer would be revealed to me at that time.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#19432 - 05/12/06 03:08 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
This post is highly controversial. I can't say I'm in total agreement with either side.

Quote:
Originally posted by sexslave:

My comments are based on the 99% of pedophiles and child molesters and rapists that are out there. You can't take an isolated instance and use that as a discussion point. The majority are never changed. That is fact!
I don't know if SS' facts are empirically correct or not but let's just assume for the moment that they are correct. What of the 1% that is left over? Are they to be denied a chance to change their lives or are they guilty by association? Should we risk punishing someone who has truly had a change in heart just for the sake of controlling those other 99% that are truly wicked?

This seems to me like a very utilitarian approach. Utilitarianism is only concerned with seeing people as a whole but not as individuals. Because of this, some individuals may be punished who don't actually deserve punishment. i.e. keeping a reformed and repented sexual molester in prison for life. We are all individuals and most of us don't fit any established pattern. Every case in this sense is unique so we shouldn't be quick to judge any one particular case based on what the overall evidence is telling us. I'm not religious but even the Bible says:

Which one of you, if he has 100 sheep, and one strays from the flock, will not leave the 99 sheep in the wilderness — vulnerable to wolves, wandering off, and other all manner of mischief — and go out and beat the bushes until you find your one lost sheep?


Quote:
Originally posted by walkingsouth:
Let's do everything we can to break the cycle, guys. If that means abandoning the perps to rot in prison, so be it. If that means educating the public in regards SA, let's do it. If it means confronting the perps wherever they happen to be, let's' do it. And, dare I say it, if that means shedding a few tears with a perp who is genuinely sorry for his actions, let's do it if we are able.
I must also respectfully disagree with John too. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it. And just because one approach is very effective and gets us the result we wanted, it doesn't automatically make it the best approach or even the right approach. There may in fact be a better approach that is just as effective and we haven't found it yet. Or they may be some that are less effective but don't cause as much unnecessary suffering. Of course, this probably means some experimenting may be necessary and it may in fact require that some reformed molesters suffer in the process until we can figure out the best way of dealing with offenders.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#19433 - 05/12/06 05:35 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
I have had recently one of my perpetrators, the 'main' perpetrator perhaps, approach me and another person he abuse, offering explanation, some apology, and asking basically, 'what do you want me to do about this, do you want me turn myself to police?' He was very 'controlled' of his emotions, and he say, he not asking for understanding or forgiveness, he knows he is not right to either. He write letter to me, and to other person, and I also speak with him on phone. He sounded very much sincere, and honest. I am not certain of what to believe and how much. But it is strange. Before, always I felt bad for him, sad for him, because I feel, how very dark his heart must be, and I am at least better of that. Now, it seem I know some the darkness inside him, and part, I still feel very bad for someone, anyone who must live those feelings. But, for some reason, now that he tell me of this, I feel more anger at him then I use to. I am not sure of why. But I been more grouchey for some time now then I ever been anyway, so maybe is just something of me.

Andrei


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#19434 - 05/12/06 05:38 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Nobby,

Quote:
I hope that I would have the courage to accept him as a brother, but he is also my biggest betrayer.
I guess you have it there -- we feel badly for the hurt we see in others because we know we hurt, too; we feel badly towards those who betray because we were betrayed. Sometimes, and if I understand Ken correctly then perhaps often, these capacities co-exist in individuals. Hmmmm...we have the capacity to be hurt, because we are human and we have the capacity to betray, for the same reason. So, I believe what it comes down to is that one can be victim/victimizer, a wounded betrayer, a traumatized perp. It doesn't surprise me to hear this from Ken, I've never thought that the evil people do is ever super-human, not even when it rises to the genocidal level of a Hitler or Stalin. It's just too ordinary, I think. I don't know why our abusers did what they did, but I also don't for a moment think that just because I don't know that reason nor can understand the essential 'why' of my experience, that I have the right to project my inability to know or comprehend onto the abuser and render him less human than I am. He, too, has an inability to know or comprehend my experience, but he projected onto me, made me less human in his mind. There for me is the nub of it -- I can be better than him without recreating him in the image of a caricature of evil. Cartoons are fun and educational to a point, but I get more out of novels.

Sorry for the ramble-ish. Bur if you read this, I thank you for your patience.

Johnboy

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

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#19435 - 05/12/06 05:40 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16263
Jesse,

You are painting yourself with your own brush here, my friend. You just got through saying that a utilitarian approach is not appropriate. When I suggest there may be more than one approach to confronting the problem, you reject that as being wrong also, so what do you want?

I do not recall suggesting that a reformed molester not pay society's price for his crimes if he expresses sorrow. I would not be able to live with myself if I believed such a thing.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#19436 - 05/12/06 06:02 AM Re: Feeling bad for my perp
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
COULD TRIGGER! does anybody remember how it felt? inside and out? the pain? the unbearable pain ?the sweat breaking out from the pain ,the disgust?the praying it would just stop?the wanting to die and hating god cause he wont let you? hating yourself for being so weak that you couldnt even end it youself? hating the god damn will to live that kept you alive? the rotten breath in your face ,the crushing weight on top of you ,so much that you couldnt move your chest to get air in ? throwing up ,dry heaving from being punched in the stomach ?did anybody wonder will he kill me this time?.these are the things that i have to deal with and they dont leave a lot of room to wonder if my perp was abused or had some twisted reason for wht he did ,maybe he doesnt understand why he did it either ,but i doubt if he is loosing any sleep over it. but i do respct anyone who can find a way to dump the anger and hate from their life ,if forgiving does that for you then forgiving is the best thing you can do .i might even forgive him for what he is, maybe he is a product of how he grew up but i will never forgive him for what he did. i'm sorry if this brings up strong emotions for anyone but it is whats inside of me.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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