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#193241 - 11/30/07 01:40 PM More hard stuff (for me)
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Hard topic again, feel like I'm arrogant just saying it. Started a new job 2 weeks ago, a girl started touching me at work, probably nothing to a guy but if it was a woman this would have law-suit written all over it. Nothing devious in the intention but to me it feels like such a huge breach of my limits. I've been raped by a woman and yet here I am working at a computer and a woman feels it perfectly acceptable to come up behind me and put her hands on my shoulders. She touches my arm when we're talking. Feel like It's all me, how dare I be attractive to her, what have I done wrong, what did I do to invite this. I'm so fucking shy, barely talk to anyone yet this woman thinks it's a come-on. I'm not with this job anymore, 2 weeks ago I was floating on air because I felt like I finally found a job I could excell at. The first job that had anything to do with what I went to college for. I went in, I kept my mouth shut, I passed all their tests, shit I did great, I excelled. But I attracted unwanted attention, unwanted touching by someone who would make any guy ecstatic.

So here I am, feeling like I did something wrong, Feeling like I invited this. I gave up a job I really really wanted and it feels like "I" did something wrong. What did I do? I ignored her, I kept my mouth shut, I kept my conversation to a minimum. And yet she's putting her hands all over me. Like what I think I'm doing right to not attract this is the exact opposite of what I should be doing. Do I hit on her constantly, do I be abnoxious and climb all over her to chase her away. I feel like I'm in such a lose/lose situation. There really is no "win" situation for me. The problem is I know what she's been through, she's attracted because I'm "not" climbing all over her. I watched as she fought off twenty guy's, I can't imagine how hard it is for her, I'm sure she's spent her entire life fighting for RIGHT to not be assualted but yet she just does that exact same thing to me because she finally met someone who doesn't do what 99% of guys do. I'm in such an unwinnable situation because of society, don't hit on her and she's attracted to me, hit on her and she suffers. I feel like a fucking freak because I understand what she's going through, like I have to get unwanted attention because she's suffered. She's desperate for a guy who will just respect her boundaries but she can't even fathom mine.

Ladies, and guys (I'm going to post this in "friends and family" too) I need some answers, I have no idea how to act in this world. I know I'm attractive but then I add in respect for you ladies and my life is a disaster.

I feel like they only place I belong is hidden away in my room.

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#193252 - 11/30/07 05:00 PM Re: More hard stuff (for me) [Re: mogigo]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Would it help you at all to know that I am infuriated at her arrogance? She sounds presumptious and is thinking almost entirely about herself. You have every reason to feel completely unsettled. Your personal boundaries are being broken and it doesn't sound like she is even concerned with whether or not her behavior is inappropriate. What you describe about her typical responses to men sounds like childish game playing. Sort of like, "How come you don't want me, everyone else does so I will just keep pushing until you do too". I would be strongly inclined to tell her to back off big time.

You mention that you "know what she's been through", but does she know what you've been through? I'm guessing not, which makes the balance in this situation completely unfair.

I think it would be good for you to decide on a boundary to set with her. I don't think I would be good at helping you decide on what boundary to set for this situation, but hopefully others will have some good suggestions for you.

Although I am "gay", I respond similarly if a woman is presumptuous and touches me too much (which hasn't really happened since college). It is a trigger for me, and it sounds like it is a trigger for you too, but in a different way.

I see nothing wrong with your feelings about this situation. I personally think that communicating your reaction to her in some diplomatic way will be the way to go.

I think I may be ranting a bit but I am dealing with a tremendous amount of triggers of my own right now.

Best of luck,

Craig

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#193278 - 12/01/07 01:17 AM Re: More hard stuff (for me) [Re: mogigo]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mike,

As you know I'm not usually at a loss for words, but when I read your post yesterday I felt utterly defeated. I could so feel for what you were going through, yet somehow I had no idea what to say. This is an effort after thinking about your post all evening, so I hope there's something here that will help you.

I thought the key point lies in something you yourself say:

Originally Posted By: mogigo
I have no idea how to act in this world. I know I'm attractive but then I add in respect for you ladies and my life is a disaster.


I remember that feeling so well. I was making very good progress in some ways, but one thing I noticed was that I had no idea what to do with myself in the here and now. I could say, okay, I get it, I really do believe none of it was my fault, and so on. But I still felt like a 14-year-old in many adult situations, and I hated the fact that when a real challenge came along I either hid from it or collapsed. Emotionally I had no idea how to be the "authentic me" and an adult at the same time.

I think the real challenge for us in that situation, Mike, is not so much to deal with those challenges one by one, but rather to examine and come to terms with the feelings that underlie ALL of our problems. Here are a few key points by way of example:

1. Being an attractive guy doesn't mean you have to accept unwanted advances, as if manhood means we should be "ready, willing and able" every time a chance comes up. A guy has as much right as a woman to rebuff inappropriate comments, touches and other come-ons, and to do it rudely if the advances continue.

2. Abuse has an insidious way of teaching us the false lesson that our needs don't count. For example, you commiserate with that woman's problems, but yours are just as important. And to you they should be more important. You do have a right to put yourself first!

3. Most important of all, Mike, don't put yourself down when you have difficulty with a difficult situation. This was a rough situation and many other survivors would feel the same way. Remember that what's happening is that Little Mike has hit the panic button. He sees the woman's advances as a renewal of the abusive patterns he knows only too well. Something happens and he immediately hits you with the old feelings of "this is my fault" and "what's wrong with me". Well, it'snot your fault and you did nothing wrong. Your feelings of helplessness, guilt and confusion come from the little guy, and the real challenge is to help him to see that the bad days are over and that you can keep him safe while enjoying an adult social and sexual life yourself. This is something best done in therapy, and you might find that some role-play exercises with your T would help.

I'm really sorry you left this job over this situation, Mike. It sounds like it was a good one, and I wonder if you can't go back and speak to your boss about it. It would be a shame for this incident to have such a profound affect on you.

But most of all, please don't regard this incident as a failure on your part. SO many other guys would have reacted the same way. You don't need to measure yourself against old stereotypes of what guys should and should not think or want or do.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#193318 - 12/01/07 10:21 AM Re: More hard stuff (for me) [Re: roadrunner]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Mike,

Don't beat yourself up. You did what you thought was right for you.

You will find a better job as it seems tome you are good at finding what you excel.

You will also find a good woman, probably in work surrounding, who willbe comfortable for you and she WILL not hurry things and will wait for your genuine interest in relationships.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#193337 - 12/01/07 01:38 PM Re: More hard stuff (for me) [Re: alexey]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Thanks guys, I needed to hear it so much. I'm going to go back to the trade work I was doing, it's not something I can do forever because of physical problems but I still have some time yet. There's no women in that line of work \:\) I know these issues need to be dealt with because there are women in the world and I need to be okay with dealing with them. Just not right now, I'm dealing with too much right now and the other line of work is a comfortable place for me to be right now. As my friend says "no need for baptism by fire". I'm okay with my descision, something that would have killed me only a year ago. I think it's a sign of progress that I can be okay with it.

I made a choice for myself, not something I wanted to have to do but something I needed to do right now.

Thanks guys, once again MS to the rescue \:\)

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#193352 - 12/01/07 03:41 PM Re: More hard stuff (for me) [Re: mogigo]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mike,

It sounds like you are doing what's best for you right now, and that's the most important thing. We all have to be willing to take reasonable risks, but at the same time we need to recognize our limits. You seem to be doing that, and I like the way you show satisfaction with choosing what you NEED.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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