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#191008 - 11/11/07 05:43 PM My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
My Dad Thinks I am A Fag

Dad, I walked from that bathroom terrified,
Alone,
I needed you,
I could not tell you.
The dude fucked me up!!!
You were just right outside the door.
I know you would have beat him up - but if I had told you,
Dammit - You would think I was a fag.

For years I have not enjoyed nor am I good at the manly things you are good at,
I am not the man you are Ė less than,
I am not a real man.
Baseball, football, hunting and fishing,
I wasnít the fucking football hero like you were
After all-
Thatís what makes a real man. Right?

Everytime I didnít sign up for ball
Your disappointment says
my son is different -he is a fag.

Everytime you didnít share my excitement regarding my music,
Your lack of interest says
my son is different - he is a fag.

Everytime you arrived late for my music productions,
Your shame said
my son is different - he is a fag.

I did not become the star running back of the football team,
I was the band captain,
I was voted by my teachers as the Most Outstanding Senior Boy.
The puzzled, bewildered look in your eyes said-
my son is different - he is a fag.

Dad, I walked from that bathroom terrified,
Alone,
I needed you,
I could not tell you.
The dude fucked me up!!!
You were just right outside the door.
I know you would have beat him up - but if I had told you,
Dammit - You would think I was a fag.

GD-2007







Edited by River (11/11/07 05:47 PM)
_________________________
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#191021 - 11/11/07 06:31 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: River]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
i was up camping with my dad and a friend of his for the last two weeks. they drink a lot. my dads friend kept telling me to drink to make me into a real man. I finnaly looked him in the eyes and asked him if the amount of alcohol one consumes is really the messure of how big of a man you are. He quieted up a little bit.

I think people who act like they are big and tough foot ball hero's or and great outdoors men. are really afraid to let their guard down because they are afraid they will get hurt them selves.

i didnt tell my parents for a long time either because i was afraid of what their reaction would be. its crazy how the people who are supposed to protect us can end up being our most dangerous adversaries.

its cool that you can express your self through poetry.

,Chris


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#191071 - 11/11/07 11:17 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: theatrekid]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
River....this is one of the saddest things I've read here. I'm so sorry you could not tell him.

I make it a point to make it clear to my kids that they can tell me anything and I wont judge them. Does that mean they will definetly be able to tell me somthing like that? No...but it sure does make it more likely.

The macho-man aspects you so clearly illustrate really hit home for me. As years went on I learned what my father thought of "those people" and I would never admit to anything. "Those people" included gays, hippies, artists, actors, singers, anyone with a mental illness... you get the idea.

So thank you for re-inforcing my plan to appear non-judgemental around my kids...and to try to remain actually non-judgemental in life.

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#191072 - 11/11/07 11:17 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: theatrekid]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
River,

I hope you are bursting with pride at your achievements in high school. The music, the productions, the academic excellence - all this is far more important than being a star football player able to run past other guys without being knocked over. I feel sorry for your Dad - he has missed a lot. Not just helping you to learn and grow, but also learning to take on his most important task - being a good father.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#191073 - 11/11/07 11:19 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: theatrekid]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Chris,

Originally Posted By: theatrekid
i was up camping with my dad and a friend of his for the last two weeks. they drink a lot. my dads friend kept telling me to drink to make me into a real man. I finnaly looked him in the eyes and asked him if the amount of alcohol one consumes is really the messure of how big of a man you are. He quieted up a little bit.


Good for you! That's great you stood up for yourself and refused to be taken in by the macho bullshit. What did your Dad say?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#191123 - 11/12/07 10:01 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: roadrunner]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Chris, most of the time that crap can be translated as, "Hey kid, do what i'm doing so i don't have to be self-conscious about the fact that i probably drink too much." I was never Grizzly Adams (ask your dad if you don't know LOL) but i was a hardcore drinker for a while, and i always felt uncomfortable if people weren't drinking as much or as fast as i was, so i'd always try to pressure them to keep up w/ me; in high school, i was the "bad influence" always trying to corrupt the "good kids" into partying like i did. I'm glad you're smart enough to toss that back in his face, and give HIM something to chew on for a while. How many hunters, fishermen, and other "weekend warriors" do what they do to get away from people so they can get drunk w/o getting hassled? I'm not saying all of them, but i've known *quite* a few...

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#191125 - 11/12/07 10:15 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: dgoods]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
Guys,

I am enjoying reading your comments. It helps me to know I am not alone. God, I love my dad soooo much. He is such a good man, but obviously is very wounded himself. My friends LOVED my dad .... he was an awesome coach. It was sooo incredibly painful to see how affirming, loving and supportive he was towards his baseball players.... many of them my friends. He took several teams to the state play-offs. I never got that affirming, loving support from my dad. Damn!!!! Then their is my younger brother... who is just like my dad... athletic, spors-minded, etc. But that is another story. I am not jealous towards my brother.. I am actually happy for him. Just very hurt by my dad.




Edited by River (11/12/07 10:18 AM)
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#191196 - 11/12/07 06:32 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: River]
Bobby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
River, I don't know how old you are, but if you're still young, promise me you won't go through life trying to find what your dad never gave you like I did. It's a hole that I've been trying to fill my entire life. My dad, too, was a coach, and I, wasn't the band captain, we didn't have one, but I was the band president for two years. I know that maybe he would have liked to have been proud of me, and maybe in his way, he was........but not like he would have been if I'd been a football star. I even went out for basketball, and because it was a small school made the team. That bench was one warm son of a gun for three miserable years. I did it for him. When his old football team members came back and they ran plays in our family room (one became the head coach at a major university), I went into the other room. No one said anything, but I knew what they were thinking "Poor coach. Too bad he didn't have a real son." And I was a big boy. "I could have been a contendah." I just didn't wanta. My sister always says that he loved me, but he never once in my whole life ever said it.....ever. You're a good person, River. You know that. It's our culture that has determined that a real man has to hunt and fish and carry a football and spit......I tried spitting once....didn't like it. There's nothing wrong with that. Some of my best friends hunt and fish. A couple of them even played football, and I don't hold that against them.....well, maybe I do, but just a little.

I'd like to say it's just his loss, River. But it's yours, too, and that hurt and need will stay with you forever. But it wasn't your lack.....it was his, and I'm so sorry for both of you......and for me and my dad, too.

Bobby

_________________________
I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.




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#191219 - 11/12/07 09:07 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: Bobby]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
Thanks Bobby. Our stories are very similar. I played sports for my dad also. A year ago we were sitting around my parents table and I laughingly made the comment about what a horrible football player I was and my dad stopped and looked at me and said, "Son, you were a great football player." I said, "Youv'e got to be kidding.. the one time in pee-wee that I got the ball, I ran it the wrong way." He said, "It was pee-wee and you were fastest boy on the field and they couldn't catch you." Then.... he said..."Yeah, with your size and speed you would have been a great football player." It blew me out of the water. In my 40 years, he had never, once said that he thought I was a good athlete...much less a good football player. I do not know why he waited this many years to tell me.

It is very interesting. Life has an irony, a way of redeeming the past.

At first I thought it was a cruel joke from God or something.

My son is in Boy Scouts and I have done EVERYTHING with him. I told my wife when he was a Tiger Cub that I would NOT wear those stupid looking uniforms with those stupid looking socks..... LOL... a year later... I had the uniform!!! I still refuse to wear those socks! I was not happy and I did not want to do the outdoors thing because of the crap my dad put me through... freezing my but off on the lake and in the woods. But, I am reclaiming the water, the woods ... FOR ME... and I get to do it with a beautiful blonde haired, blue-eyed boy.. my precious son. I am learning how to do the outdoors... my style and how to have fun and stay warm!!! We have seen some really beautiful places in the great Tennessee outdoors. HA! I actually enjoy going into the sporting goods stores... it is pretty amazing.

I have also gotten tricked into coaching soccer. God HELP ME! That was short lived. I think other parents felt sorry for me. LOL! At the time I thought it was another cruel joke from God.. He knew how much I loved my kids and was using it against me to do this stupid athletic shit. LOL.


It gets better!

Yes, my son want so shoot a gun...and hunt.. Dammit. And we are going to take a hunters safety course in the Spring. I am still struggling with it. But the important thing is... he wants to do it AND I am going to do it WITH HIM. I may not kill and animal with him.. but I will go through the course with him... his first time... my second time. If he wants to hunt... he has two grandfathers!!! LOL! Meanwhile, I am going to buy some paint ball guns and we are going to try to get the gun thing out of his system!!!

I actually am working with his boy scout troop to help the boys earn their Fishing merit badge.... and actually enjoying it. God just has an amazing way... he keeps throwing it in my face. It is difficult for me to continue to hate this stuff as I am working with the boys. AHHHH......My son and I will be taking a canoe trip to the Canadian Boundary Waters next summer. I have been reading books by Gary Paulsen.... I am looking forward to seeing some of the things he writes about in his books.

What I am learning is that I really do love the outdoors. I don't see myself killing animals.. but I do see myself taking a week long backpacking trip. I see myself taking a weeklong white water rafting adventure. Sigh.

And dammit... I will take along my guitar and a harmonica and will sing my little heart out. I may write some music and poetry and take some damn good photographs. LOL. My dad just would not get that. He really missed out on some great campfires with his son and his musical gifts.


So here I am. Grieving the loss of my relationship with my dad... allowing God to redeem the great outdoors... and doing it alonside a beautiful son that he has blessed me with (man, he is a beautiful boy). And as my son grows up... I also get the opportunity to grow up and am slowly becoming my own man.

Peace

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#191233 - 11/12/07 10:23 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: roadrunner]
theatrekid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 702
Loc: oregon
Originally Posted By: roadrunner

What did your Dad say?


Nothing of course. ;\) but i felt glad i for standing up to the guy. he is a long time friend of my dad but he really makes me feel uncomfortable when i'm around him.


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#191242 - 11/13/07 01:43 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag *DELETED* [Re: River]
krayoss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 112
Loc: west
Post deleted by krayoss


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#191267 - 11/13/07 09:42 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: krayoss]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
It is truly a grieving process. A huge loss for little boys who needed nurture and affirmation during some horrendous times in our lives.

Just when I think I have done "enough" therapy work around my dad... it comes back up. And that's okay. I am convinced that it is a lifetime of work. :>)

Peace

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#191268 - 11/13/07 09:44 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: krayoss]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
River,

You are clearly an awsome Dad! The kind we would all love to have had.

My father is a lot like yours. He just does not "get" the hows and whys of my relationship with my kids. When I told him I was building a big treehouse with them, he looked at me like I was fully nuts (I am).

One VERY interesting thing and is quite revealing about my childhood is that my father recoils in horror if we commend my extremely-bright son on his intelligence and academic prowess. I mean this kid is SMART!!! My father says things like "dont tell him that"..."don't let him know he's bright"..."its VERY important that he not get a big head." Yeah Dad...he's bright but not bright enough to know he's bright????? He does know he's in the accellerated program at school. He does know he's doing algebra when other kids are larning to add.

It explains a lot.

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#191270 - 11/13/07 10:58 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: Still]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
Robbie,

Thanks. You also are clearly an awesome dad!!! And you also appear to be nuts about your kids. I wonder what it would have been like to have a dad who was nuts about me? Sigh. However, maybe our passion for our children is is something good that has come out of our own broken relationships with our fathers. Sigh.

Of course our kids need to know they are bright and gifted! If they don't know their gifts, their strengths then how can we as parents and teachers develop and empower them to use there talents and gifts. Wow! I don't want my kids to grow up not having confidene in themself.

And yeah, it sounds a lot like that old coach mentality and it does explain a lot.

Glynn

and Jesus loves the hell out of me too!!!

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#191294 - 11/13/07 02:35 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: River]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6571
Loc: Never Sugar Mountain
Originally Posted By: River
... maybe our passion for our children is something good that has come out of our own broken relationships with our fathers.


Man...if we can spin this type of positive stuff out of such negative stuff...wow!! Though I have not figured out what the CSA has done for me positively except to raise safer kids.

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#191362 - 11/14/07 12:44 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: theatrekid]
Bobby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
River, Sounds wonderful...the things you're doing with your son. I remember when my son was born. All I wanted to do was make him feel loved. Nothing else mattered. Every chance I got, I told him I loved him. Now he's grown, and that's one thing he'll never have to wonder about. I've probably made some other really good mistakes with him, but that's not one of them. It was easy for me. My son is almost a genetic clone (that's a good thing in some ways and something he'll have to forgive me for in others). I'm a choir director and he was in my choir.....I was a drama major, and that's where he chose to hang his hat in high school. We have the same sense of humor and think we're extremely funny. When we get on a good roll, we really crack us up. He's 32 now and I really enjoy him a lot. My dad died when I was 22, so I never got a chance to know him as a mature man. I would like to have gotten to know him better. So many things I will never be able to understand. It's so great that you're doing all those things with your son. When I see a father having fun with or just interacting with his son, sons or any of his children, I always want to go up to him and tell him how important it is and how much I wish my dad had done that with me. I don't, of course, because he'd probably think I was some kind of nut. But, sometimes, it's hard not to.

Bobby

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I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.




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#191495 - 11/15/07 11:32 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: Bobby]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
Bobby, the way you describe your relationship with your son is just beautiful. It is neat to hear dad's with grown sons talk about how much they enjoy their grown sons. It is going to be neat to see how my kids turn out and to some day relate to them as adults, God willing.

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#191497 - 11/15/07 11:39 AM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: River]
River Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 114
Loc: Nashville,Tennessee
You know, I have talked about my son a lot.... But I also have a beautiful daughter (17yo). I am getting to bless her as a young woman. It has been bittersweet watching her grow up. I was the only one she would allow to "bounce" her to sleep when she was a baby. I was the one who did her hair up in cute little pony tails every morning. God, I really miss those days! BUT, I still give her that daddy hug every day and tell her I love her. Surprisingly, she has not shut us out like many teenagers do with their parents and continues talks to us about her friends and her "boyfriend(s)" and I consider that a great honor... and I get to support, affirm, cry and laugh with her ... and tease her a bit... about some of her stuff. Anyway, I am rambling.. only to say... father and daughter relationships are JUST AS IMPORTANT. I have learned from my own broken relationship with my dad, just how important it is to nurture, affirm, support and bless my children. That is the one good thing that has come out of my childhood pain.



Edited by River (11/15/07 11:42 AM)
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#191524 - 11/15/07 05:10 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: River]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
This post is really awesome to me. I also have 2 kids, a boy and a girl. They know that their dad is going through much anxiety and hurt from past experiences, but I have not got the nerve yet to tell them what happened to me. I know it hurts them so much to see me this way, I just can't tell them at this time. They know my perp. very well, my bro, their uncle. I know it is gonna be so hard on them. But then I am sure this too is hard, knowing I am hurting and they don't know why. Hope and pray some time soon I will be able to tell them. Just don't wanna do it wrong. Guess I need to work and try to cope with my csa before I can tell my wonderful kids. I love them to death and just can't bear to see them hurting either.
Thanks for letting me ramble on.

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#431613 - 04/17/13 10:42 PM Re: My Dad Thinks I Am A Fag [Re: River]
douglaswil Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 35
Loc: Russellville, AR
Originally Posted By: River
...I would NOT wear those stupid looking uniforms with those stupid looking socks..... LOL... a year later... I had the uniform!!! I still refuse to wear those socks!


BAHAHAHA The socks!
_________________________
Doug
www.dugslife.com
I am DOUG, not Egbert!

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