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#190606 - 11/09/07 01:19 PM Re: Putting faces to the numbers [Re: roadrunner]
alexey Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1674
Loc: Moscow, Russia
Larry, thanks for this post,

When I tell my T about abusers, she replaies that they have got what they deserved. I mean I didn't have a legal prosecution over the monsters who hurt me.

They could abuse other children. Maybe they got in jail, and in this way they must have got enough...

One of my classmates ended his life when I was in college. I think he was a survivor because I remember the things he tried to tell us about being raped.

Other guys from my childhood place of living suffered from drug addiction and commited crimes. Some got in jail. I think they were survivors, or at least their families just didn't care about them.

I have survived. I am glad.

Alexey

_________________________
(\__/)
(='.'=)
E[:]|||||[:]3
(")_(")
--------
When you feel all alone and unhappy, turn to you Inner Child and talk to Him.
You will see He can comfort you like nothing else!

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#190643 - 11/09/07 06:19 PM Re: Putting faces to the numbers [Re: alexey]
Logan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 1238
Loc: NY
Larry, first I wanna say thankyou for bring up this topic.

I can only speak from my own experience, and it sickens me to think that there probly were alot of other boys that had the same experience that I hadd considering that I was abuse by someone outside my family. A person that was involved with alot of extracoricular activities with boys.

I did not realize that my reckless behavior could have been directly related to what happend to me. I never questioned where my semi-suicidal behavior came from. I just went along knowing that it was self destructive not thinking that it may have been a result of the abuse and torture that I have sustained.

I recently found out that my risk taking behavior is a result of my PSTD, but I never put it together that my actions were a way of fighting what I went through.

I practice many of the things stated above, like: speeding and volunteering for the most dangerous jobs, and just doing stupid stuff that puts my life in jepordy.
Most recently I have been seriusly concidering joining the millitary just to go to Iraq not really thinking why I would want to do this, just knowing that I want to.

I guess I never made the direct link between my behavior and my abuse. Maybe I just thought that this is the way I am.

I guess I never looked at what my PTSD had to do with both my behavior and my abuse-I know it sounds really stupid and obvious but I did see that. Weird huh.

If this is the way that I behave, I know that my freinds that experienced this behave in many oif the same ways, I can only imagine that many others that this has happened to behave in a similar way and some don't make it.

This is really big. so am I just a statistic too? That my behavior is really more common than I thought? That alot of guys who have been abuserd do the same thing and if so, many of them would not be so lucky. I just never thought of it like that before. I guess there would be alot of guys that don't make it and its has so much to do with this.

I never thought of the bigger picture. i should probly be grateful that I am not one of the not so fortunate ones and that I have made it and should be grateful for that.


-Logan

_________________________
"Terrible thing to live in Fear"-Shawshank Redemption
WOR Alumnus Hope Springs 2009
"Quite a thing to live in fear, this is what is means to be a slave"
-Blade Runner

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#190735 - 11/10/07 02:38 AM Re: Putting faces to the numbers [Re: Logan]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Logan,

Originally Posted By: Logan
I never thought of the bigger picture. i should probly be grateful that I am not one of the not so fortunate ones and that I have made it and should be grateful for that.


Maybe we can look at it this way together. Little Larry and Little Logan survived, though many times it must have been hard as hell to see what the point was or how they would get through even one more day.

All the recovery work we do is building on their courage and working in their honor.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#190741 - 11/10/07 05:20 AM Re: Putting faces to the numbers [Re: KeithR]
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Larry - I can believe the figure of 150 victims of a perp outside of the family.

I was groomed and abused in 1969 & know that I was not the first. I have no proof of that, but something the perp once said to me 99% implied at least one other person that he'd got his hands on. I worked out who that person was & he is about 10 years older than me. Knowing what age range the perp likes, that means his 'career' probably started around 1960, give or take a year. He didn't stop, until I went to the police in October of 2004. That means that his 'activities' spanned around four and a half decades. I makes me feel sick actually typing that.

I know that he was often around young boys that played football in the local park, and I believe that's where he 'picked up most of his toys'. Identifying those who maybe appeared to be a little isolated, and deciding that they might 'like his attention'. I also know that he almost used to watch boys growing up, gradually befriending them as they grew towards 'the age that he liked'. Why would anyone be frightened of that nice friendly man that always spoke when he passed.

That's how he got me. I waws standing at the railway station with my dog, watching the trains. I'd seen him speaking to lot's of people, and there was no reason whatever to feel threatened. I was an intelligent kid, but he still got me, hook, line and sinker.

I feel guilty that I did not speak up sooner, but I counteract that by knowing that I spoke up first, opening the door for others to do the same. There are 2 people in my town that I am convinced he also abused, and they are the ones that make me feel most guilty. One is a pot head, that never leaves the house. The other is about 40 years old and looks 70. He is totally malnourished and an incapable alcoholic. When I see him staggering to/from the pub, my heart could break. He is still one of the politest people you could meet, but a totally lost soul. Even though he is lost, you can see the hurt in his eyes. There are others obvioulsy, one that got drunk and just laid down in the snow one New Years eve - it's with hindsight, that I see the haunted expression he used to carry around with him. It is out of respect for these lost souls, that I will not give in ever.

I've been to the bottom of the pit and crawled back out again. That means that in my heart, I know anyone else can.

Whatever we suffered, I believe that those of us here are some of the best people on the planet. We really are SURVIVORS, no matter what stage we are in the survival process.

I don't know what percentage of boys were abused, it may be as high as suggested, it may be less. Whatever the figure, even one abused child is 1 too many.

Last night, I went to see Joan Jett (she actually has 2 decent songs, not one), Motorhead (right at the top of their game, and the best I've ever seen them) and Alice Cooper (ever the showman, and like a rock pantomime for adults). During Joan Jett's performance, I received a tap on my shoulder - it was a friend who was bass player in the band I used to be in. We got talking about a few things and included Joan Jetts perfomance. He'd seen the set from the start, and said 'She even played some Gary Glitter earlier. I said 'Doesn't she know'? *Gary Glitter is currently banged up in a foreign jail for child abuse activities. He said:: 'Probably not, but maybe the kids might like it'. Then that look that I recognise came on his face. Yes I'd suspected for many years that he was another toy for the perp that abused me. He lived near the railway station enroute to the quarry when he was a kid. I just new. One day I'll ask, but I know the answer.

I believe that I have done well in my life, career and friends wise, but relationships - I don't think it will ever happen now. When you have spent decades telling yourself that you are substandard, that there is something wrong with you, it is very difficult to change that on a subconscious level, no matter what you tell yourself consciously. I would have been the best dad ever, but that bastard denied me the chance.

Whether we are the 1:6, 1:2, 1:10, 1:100, we need to have the best life we can, that way we win!

I'm not going to be the pot head, the alcoholic (though I like a drink), nor am I going to lie down in the snow. I hope that I have another 50 years left, that way I can make up for some of the time that was stolen from me. Maybe I can also do some of the living, that others cannot!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#190742 - 11/10/07 06:34 AM Re: Putting faces to the numbers [Re: roadrunner]
kayak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Good post, RoadRunner.

I remember hearing of a clergy sex abuse victim whose suicide threshold was crossed by just one incident of abuse. As a young fella of about 9, the priest took him to get ice cream and while he sat in the front seat of the car and ate it, the priest leaned over and performed oral sex on him. What he remembered most was the melting ice cream running down his forearm as he sat there frozen in horror and disbelief.

He took his life in his late teens, unable to deal with the consequences of just one incidence of sexual abuse.

Compare that to others who endure far more physically invasive and humiliating abuse that goes on for years, yet function in various degrees of competence and never decide to take their lives. And, I wonder how many of those that take their lives, regret doing it in those few seconds of transition from life to death?

Each of us is unique and EVERY life is precious in His sight.

As a clergy abuse survivor of "reverend" james hanley (capital letters specifically excluded as he deserves no honor or respect) from Mendham, NJ, I know and love Lou and Pat Serrano. Mark, their son, who spearheaded the effort to get many of hanley's victims together annually for weekends of recovery, single-handedly jump-started many journeys towards recovery. Were it not for him helping us all realize we were NOT ALONE, some of us may have never connected the dots between our abuse and our lifestyle, etc.

One person CAN make a difference, and collectively we are stronger for speaking up. Each of us here need one another. Each individual strengthens the group; the group in turn empowers individuals. Together, we heal.

Another MS member's signature says it well: I hate that I am here, but I am glad there is a "here" here.

Back to the numbers: I saw a group picture of St. Joseph's 8th grade basketball team; the main hunting grounds for hanley, the perpetrator. Out of about 15 youths pictured (which represented just about all of the catholic school's 8th grade class) it was determined that probably every one of those young men had been abused by hanley at one time or another; many of them for several years. Only about 6 had the courage to come forward as adults and admit it; many of the others steadfastly refused. One of the six committed suicide in front of a train several years later.

Wickedness and sin abound; I thank God for the Doctors and Board Members who spearhead MaleSurvivor (many of which are survivors also) and for each of you, my fellow 'ground troops', as we fight the good fight.

kayak


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#190846 - 11/10/07 10:20 PM Re: Putting faces to the numbers [Re: RICK57]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Rik,

Originally Posted By: RICK57
I feel guilty that I did not speak up sooner, but I counteract that by knowing that I spoke up first, opening the door for others to do the same.


I know this isn't easy, but I would urge you to let the first part of the sentence go and hold onto the second part.

The key point, I think, is something that Mike Lew says in Victims No Longer. To guys who feel guilty because they did not speak up sooner, or disclose sooner, or do whatever sooner, he replies that "You did it at the very first second it was possible for you", or words to that effect.

If you look back at your own situation, try to honor the progress you were making and each step you were taking before you outed the abuser. All that earlier stuff was part of what made it possible for you to take the decisive step on that fateful day. It was part of the solid foundation you absolutely had to have before you could act. I really do think Mike is right.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#191167 - 11/12/07 03:49 PM Re: Putting faces to the numbers [Re: roadrunner]
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Thanks Larry - I know what you tell me, and I know that you are right.

It just kicks in sometimes, particularly when I see the alcoholic. Also when I think that the other 2 witnesses that came forward had been younger chidhoodfriends, and I feel like I let them down, even though they didn't blame me.

I also find it sort of hard to accept that I've actually achieved a decent career even though I have always had a low opinion of myself until the last few years.

I am still shocked at what happened to me as a young boy, but I am equally shocked that I've not done too bad. It's just trying to get the perspective right.

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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