Newest Members
beatcook, MassGuy, wiresguy1, AustinChemist, wild_turky
12276 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
4113 (60), Andre M, (36), catchup22 (62), jim OCA 7 (57), sidhearthur (55), SkyClad (65)
Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 20 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12276 Members
73 Forums
63164 Topics
441711 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#189671 - 11/02/07 11:56 AM by Larry's request
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
.



Edited by MarkK (04/16/08 02:02 PM)

Top
#189678 - 11/02/07 01:05 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

Thanks for giving this a try. I think you did really well, and I hope you can see the result. Staying on the outside does us even more harm than we would face if we try to trust again.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#189696 - 11/02/07 02:40 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: MarkK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: MarkK
it truly is not safe to live
        on the outside looking in


yeah ... I see it ... I'm just not sure if I can do anything about it.

Guess that's why I'm in therapy


Top
#189707 - 11/02/07 05:39 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

That's it bro. Just KNOWING the direction of our goals is already a big step forward, even before we really get anywhere. A willingness to acknowledge there's a problem and face it is the tool we all have to have in hand.

As for using the tools, well, this business of "I'm just not sure if I can do anything about it" is where we all start from, I think. That's why it feels like such a risk, and as you say, that's also why we need a T.

Muich love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#189836 - 11/03/07 04:56 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Knowing is a big step forward? If you know and just sit on the knowledge, what good has it done?

But yes - this is why we need a T.

M


Top
#190231 - 11/06/07 04:12 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

Originally Posted By: MarkK
Knowing is a big step forward? If you know and just sit on the knowledge, what good has it done?


Perhaps it's like a guy working on restoring an old car. He hopes it will run in the end, but for a long time he's doing work and still not able to start up that car and drive anywhere. He just has to trust in his own abilities and take the risk that in the end it will work out.

In Victims No Longer Mike Lew talks about this business of waiting for something to happen, and he has a great way to put it. He says something like this: "Just know that when you finally do it, that is the very first second you could have done it." That thought helped me a lot when I was feeling frustrated and impatient with myself.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#190236 - 11/06/07 04:34 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: roadrunner]
MemoryVault Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
Hey, Mark --

Echoing Larry...your new awareness is already rewriting the program. Just challenging the wall has already begun to erode it.

It took a lot of things to build the wall (How much do you have to say or do or not do to a child to crush his natural openness and longing for connection?) It will take a lot to be able to break it down for good.

But it's eroding NOW. It's already happening. Maybe the scary thing isn't seeing the wall in all its strength, but knowing that it really won't be there forever.

Beautiful poem!

David


Top
#190318 - 11/07/07 08:37 AM Re: by Larry's request [Re: MemoryVault]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: MemoryVault
Maybe the scary thing isn't seeing the wall in all its strength, but knowing that it really won't be there forever.

Good point! I hadn't thought about that - but it definitely has a ring of truth. I'll have to investigate that more.

Thanx, David!

M

_________________________
the story
    https://1in6.org/men/bristlecone/mark-krueger/

Kirkridge - October 2008
Alta - September 2012
Alta - September 2013

Top
#190320 - 11/07/07 08:39 AM Re: by Larry's request [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
Perhaps it's like a guy working on restoring an old car. He hopes it will run in the end, but for a long time he's doing work and still not able to start up that car and drive anywhere. He just has to trust in his own abilities and take the risk that in the end it will work out.

Nice analogy, Larry. "He has to trust in his own abilities and take the risk..." - - That seems to sum up about where I'm at in this. I don't know which is harder though - trusting in my abilities or actually taking the risk... Probably trusting - cuz if I believed in my abilities, the risk probably wouldn't seem so great.

Thanx again!

M


Top
#190889 - 11/11/07 02:32 AM Re: by Larry's request [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

Originally Posted By: MarkK
I don't know which is harder though - trusting in my abilities or actually taking the risk... Probably trusting - cuz if I believed in my abilities, the risk probably wouldn't seem so great.


What if trust and risk are the front and back of the same coin:

trust (positive): I have skills; if I use them I can gain...
risk (negative): I feel afraid and uncertain. If I fail I will lose...

See where I'm going with this?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#191115 - 11/12/07 09:19 AM Re: by Larry's request [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: roadrunner
See where I'm going with this?


Larry, I'm sorry to say, I don't think I do. I can comprehend risk and trust being "opposite sides of the same coin" - but I have a little trouble accepting the concept. To me, they both are present at the same time, or so it seems. Wouldn't it be difficult to have both at the same time if they're opposites of the same coin? I would think that would mean one cancels the other out... and while I can see how trust can help me step forward regardless the risk, I don't know that I see it minimizing the risk any.

Appreciate the input as always, Larry - just not sure I see your point in this instance....

M


Top
#192480 - 11/24/07 02:10 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: MarkK]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Mark,

What I meant to suggest was that trust is a response to risk; the two aren't separate situations - they are always there together. Even when we feel there is no risk in a situation, all we are saying is that we have sufficient confidence to face the risk. The risk was still always there.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#192646 - 11/25/07 02:47 PM Re: by Larry's request [Re: roadrunner]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
ok - now i'm there. thanx for being patient \:\)

m


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, Publius 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.