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#190480 - 11/08/07 05:33 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: Hauser]
thesun3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 49
Hello All:
Why I believe....
I saw the snow draped crags of the Grand Canyon, a bald eagle, alone, perched on a dead branch, bow it's head before a blast of snow flurries....
A Poet once wrote, that God's 3 greatest creations are: the stars in the sky...the flowers in the field....and the eyes of children......
Hardly topics for a modern day sermon, a scientific thesis, or a political essay...not enough blood and noise.

_________________________
In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.
Camus

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#190482 - 11/08/07 05:44 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: thesun3]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I believe it was Voltaire who once said, "if God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent him."

There are those of us who believe that God didn't create man...man created God.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#190487 - 11/08/07 06:49 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: thesun3]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Wonderfully evocative imagery; if your belief brings you to a inner place of acceptance and wonder for the universe, i'm honestly happy for you.

We all reach different conclusions; mine has been that the presence, or absence, of any supernatural force, is intrinsically unknowable.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#190498 - 11/08/07 07:29 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: dgoods]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: dgoods
mine has been that the presence, or absence, of any supernatural force, is intrinsically unknowable.


Yes, that is mine as well. However, if we are to deduce that the presense or absense of any supernatural force is intrinsically unknowable, then we must also deduce that all incarnations of such a force that are currently present here on earth are completely fabricated.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#190500 - 11/08/07 07:38 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: BJK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
... if one can deduce such things are "intrinsically unknowable".

there are many who would say they know God exists. not believe, feel, hope, trust - but know.

myself being one.

guess it's all part of what makes life interesting - the many varied thoughts, beliefs, and lives that make up this planet on which we currently reside.

M


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#190510 - 11/08/07 08:35 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: MarkK]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I have reached a conclusion, through my own deductive reasoning, that God does not exist. There is not a shadow of a doubt left to me in that belief. However, I will concede that I cannot prove this, and I do not consider the analogy of Russel's Teapot to be conclusive proof. Therefore, I am left with only one remaining conclusion. The existance of God is intrinsically unprovable.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#190627 - 11/09/07 04:34 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: BJK]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
you are an intellectual idiot bryan.

you are so full of yourself, you wouldn't recognize God if he was sitting right next to you.

i deduced that about you.


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#190651 - 11/09/07 07:18 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: buzz_key]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Okay, this has already devolved into personal attacks...

No, bryan, sorry- i leave it right where it is, which is "CAN'T KNOW, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER".

Mark, no offense, but you're using "know" in the subjective sense, which is still belief, in the way "i know i will never sprout wings" is equal to "i believe i will never sprout wings". i meant "knowable" objectively speaking.

buzz- c'mon, man...

*sigh* I really, REALLY did NOT want to see this sort of crap start, wow...

" I care not if my neighbor worships one god, or twenty. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#190656 - 11/09/07 08:04 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: dgoods]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
My life has been filled so full of lies, I refuse to believe anything which cannot be proven. My entire childhood was one great big fucking lie. I was 8 years old when I asked my priest why Catholics practice cannibalism, and instead of answering me in an intellectual way, he gave me the words, "Thou shalt not question the ways of the Lord."

I've been questioning such gibberish ever since.

I'm trying as hard as I can not to froth at the mouth here and spew hostilities, but I sense an enormous double standard when people are allowed to talk about how a belief in a higher power has helped their recovery but people are not allowed to talk about how this higher power has hindered their recovery. For the first thirty two fucking years of my life, every time I turned around to try to get help, my refusal to pretend to believe in a higher power has left me alone and in turmoil. Every time I open my mouth to simply try to get other people to understand my viewpoint, someone has to call me an intellectual idiot.

No, I don't believe in God. In a life that I have very little to be proud of, I'm pretty fucking proud of that.

No, I'm not full of myself. I'm just trying to figure out who I am, and if there is a God who has made me endure the shit I've been through, then he can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#190659 - 11/09/07 08:43 PM Re: Higher Power: (possible triggers) [Re: BJK]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11026
Loc: Denver, CO
Guys,

Please, this is going downhill fast. Let's not resort to name-calling or flare-ups. This ought not to be. Yes, there are differing views, but personal attacks are what get threads closed down.

There are many of us on here who are believers in God, and there are many of us on here who are not. I think that keeping the focus on recovery and centering on what helps us in that mission is what's important.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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