Newest Members
RodrigoBR, MJ545, Marant, BeingFound, journey4two
12332 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
cricket453 (60)
Who's Online
2 registered (2 invisible), 13 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12332 Members
74 Forums
63412 Topics
443342 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#188097 - 10/20/07 09:20 PM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


SNS,

Thanks for sharing that.

K.


Top
#188098 - 10/20/07 09:39 PM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: Kathryn]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
The thing that I see being ignored in this conversation is the fact that at least 90% of all sexual assaults on children come from someone in the family, school, church, or other social setting the child is involved in with the knowledge and encouragement of their parents, and not from the stranger who may or may not be on the sexual offenders list who has moved in next door.

We can argue all day long about the merits of registering sex offenders, and if we eventually do solve that problem it will have little impact on the sexual abuse statistics because in most cases the danger isn't coming primarily from "stranger danger" but from Uncle Don or Aunt Sally, from Father Brian or Pastor Steve, from Coach McCutcheon or Mr. Tan the music teacher.

Now I'm not saying we should just roll over and let the "stranger danger" problem slide, but if we're only looking to solve that problem as a symbolic victory and then think we've got the problem licked we damn well better think again.

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

Top
#188117 - 10/20/07 11:41 PM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: WalkingSouth]
scotia1 Offline
Guest

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 81
To Walkingsouth: Hear hear!!!!!!


Top
#188121 - 10/21/07 12:07 AM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: BJK]
mmac Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/21/07
Posts: 107
Loc: PA
I can certainly see both sides of this debate, but a few points i would like to make....

1.Perps, (yes even 1 time perps) can expect a consequence for their actions. And it should be huge. life should be hard.
it certainly is for their victims/survivors.and sadly, in most cases, their abuse is not just limited to one person, it continues on by their survivors/victims actions or lack thereof.

2. if they didn't abuse or let their own abuse continue, then we wouldn't need a registry, or places like this cause their wouldn't be any abuse to be had by anyone.

3. if a person decides to become a parent, it is their ("insert strong word here") my choice is Duty) to be aware of their surroundings and that of their children and do whatever is necessary to protect that child. All the time.

4. Education and responsibility starts at home. Parents need to talk openly to their children and alert them (age appropriate of course) to what the world is really like. and that means dads talking with sons (and moms too).

when we are unable to see both sides of an issue, that's when we turn it into a problem.

5 perps live in a 5 block radius of our home. (if you check most of us do have a few). I'd want to know if a murder or an arsonist lived close too. That does not mean that the arsonist isn't sitting home with his family wondering where the sex offenders live. its a small world, we all live somewhere and everyone is someones neighbor or family.
Be responsible and do what you need to protect your own...they are. Be educated and aware.
be safe.
M:)

_________________________
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results."

I cannot take your steps, but I can walk beside you, if you'll let me.

Top
#188124 - 10/21/07 12:21 AM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: violet]
saint-of-Lost-Causes Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Michigan
The registry is a part of dealing with the consequences of their actions! I WHOLEHEARTEDLY support this! The victim deals with the consequences of the actions...so why should the one to cause of it be spared? And I am sorry you live next to them! I wish the very best for you and your childrens safety!

But also..I dont believe its the whole solution...just a small part. Teaching children what is wrong and right and what their rights are is key! No one whether family or not is allowed to infringe on those personal rights.



Edited by mtd200385 (10/21/07 12:24 AM)
_________________________
We accept the love we think we deserve!

Top
#188129 - 10/21/07 12:44 AM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: mmac]
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'd like to pull us back to the "GoodTouch/Bad Touch" lesson since about 66% of sexual abuse occurs without touching, "GT/BT" will not cover full protection of your child. My experience finds: [1] the best protection is open, honest communication; raising a child to trust mom/dad that the child can say whatever is troubling them without feeling shame or consequences as a result; [2] re-inforce personal boundaries and ownership of their bodies...their body is under their control...no one else is permitted to ever touch it, ask you to take off your clothes, ask you to see your body or show you theirs, trust their gut level feelings about doing, showing, touching - if they sense danger or feel "icky" run, get away, etc. [3] we keep no secrets from one another, if someone asks you to keep a secret from mom or dad, tell us right away - never keep secrets (some folks will usually step in here limiting what is kept secret-i.e. saying it's okay to keep secrets about birthday surprises, gifts at Christmas, etc. Young children need concrete answers without 'grey' areas. [4] asking what they do with so-and-so; do they ever show you pictures/videos/cd's that make you feel icky or uncomfortable?...the basic here is communication, communication, communication. [there's more].

TRIGGER WARNING!!! TRIGGER WARNING!!! TRIGGER WARNING!!!

I had a patient (14 yo) whose mother, over a 2 ear period asked the Good Touch/Bd Touch questions receiving negative answers; however, his "Big Brother/Big Sister" rep never touched him...the Big Brother exposed himself, masturbated in front of him, showed videos and nudity books; had the teen expose himself and once had him masturbate BUT NEVER TOUCHED HIM NOR HAD HIM EVER TOUCH THE 'Big Brother'. GT/BT was questioned but 'touch' never happened! The scope of the questions needs to be extended to include a wider scope.

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

Top
#188137 - 10/21/07 01:28 AM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: Kathryn]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Katie,

Originally Posted By: Kathryn
Perhaps as many as 20% of adult males have some sexual feelings towards children.


I wouldn't mind hearing the source for this figure and I would urge caution caution with such material. Statistical analysis is often carried out by scholars who have no expertise in that field and little awareness of the pitfalls. The same data can lead two different researchers to exactly opposite conclusions.

This reminds me of a very high-profile survey done some years ago about sexual attitudes in Great Britain. The results turned out to be practically useless because of flaws in the way the responses were collected.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#188141 - 10/21/07 01:40 AM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: roadrunner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Howard,

I think you are SO right. It's all about confidence and communication, and I'd like to add that the issues of drinking, drugs, peer pressures and so on, are just as important as dealing with sexual predators. With our two my wife and I have always stressed open communications and have tried in every way possible to build them up and give them confidence and a strong sense of worth.

Kids and teens will still make mistakes, no doubt about it. I have gotten the call at 3 am asking can I come pick up my son and his friend, both dead drunk somewhere, because they don't want to drive and if they call Luke's Dad he will hit Luke when he gets home. Not exactly what I want, okay, but I would rather get the call from my son than from the police or the morgue.

What is your view of the expanding literature that's out there for parents to read with their kids on the theme of "It's my body", etc.? There's a lot of it, but I have yet to see any reaction to it from a professional point of view.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#188218 - 10/21/07 01:15 PM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: roadrunner]
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
For me, Larry, Sex Ed starts at birth! I believe that accepting, understanding, knowing it is okay-exuality is a healthy part of our bodies - something we teach our kids through caring for our bodies, washing our bodies, etc. Teaching a kid 0-10 (?) to take care of themselves sexually, asking questions, limits and boundaries, healthy outlook on sexuality are all parts of what will eventually come together in the pre-teen/teen as puberty/dating/ curiosity/etc. When a child is raised with sex not being a secret, that they are raised with healthy concepts and self-respect, they will approach their sexual maturity with the same solid foundation upon which they were raised since birth. It may even protect them from sexual abuse and aid in good, healthy decisions about their own sexuality.

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

Top
#189651 - 11/02/07 10:50 AM Re: Sex Offender Next Door!!! TRIGGERS!!!! [Re: roadrunner]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I thought I would throw this in after having come across it and remembering this post.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/collateral/page3.html



SEX OFFENDER LAWS AND REGISTRATION/NOTIFICATION

By Matthew Rosenberg, MSW, CSW

There are a number of points about Michigan's sex offender list that have been completely ignored by people...It is obviously such a political hot potatoe, and any lawmaker that tries to really change it for the better may be committing political suicide...However, as highlighted many times in the past, the registration and notification has cost Michigan millions, as well as taking precious law enforcement resources away to "manage" the list and offenders..

The first thing that must be really explored is what is the true purpose of the list? I suppose lawmakers say it is for community protection; however, all one has to do is review some of the studies that examined the effect of protecting the community...The most comprehensive study was completed in Washington state, and their public notification program was shown to have absolutely no impact on recidivism, reports of child sexual abuse, protective service reports, etc. The other fact that is routinely ignored is that 93% or so of offenses involve an offender and child who were either living with each other at the time, related to each other, or knew each other very well....Thus, community notification would really have no protective effect if the offender and victim are already living with each other...The public fear is that a sexual offender is some funny looking man, with glasses, who is going to abduct a child off the street and molest them....However, this type of offender really represents less than 3% of all sexual crimes (NOTE: not the funny looking man with glasses, but a man that abducts a stranger child and sexually assault him/her).

With Jessica's Law going through each state now, it is tragic how the lawmakers have not really focused their attention on who was to blame for that crime...obviously, the man was to blame; however, the court system was to blame for that as well. That man had demonstrated sexual violence in the past. He was charged with sexual crimes a number of times in the past, and had done prison time in the past. For the court to let that man out on the streets again, or a parole board who let him out of prison knowing his past...that is also where the blame must be focused.

I have worked with sexual abusers (adolescent and adult, male and female) for over 13 years. I completed a number of studies on the effectiveness of specialized treatment, and each study demonstrated a very low recidivism rate for treated abusers (especially juveniles). Even a meta-analysis, an all encompassing study done by the U.S. Justice Department showed the reality of recidivism with sexual offenders...that other types of crimes have a far higher recidivism rate (thieves, drunk drivers, other forms of assault, etc). As therapists, we know the type of sexual offender who will relapse at a higher rate...the homosexual pedophile has the highest relapse rate....exhibitionists, untreated, also have a very high relapse rate...however, these two types account for less than 10% off all reported offenses.

The other point I always bring up in lectures I do is to dispel the notion that a "sex offender" can never change..or that he or she will need years of therapy to change...It is similar to drunk driving...if a man grew up in an alcoholic home, began using alcohol in 6th grade, had numerous MIP's as a teen..drank all through college..drove drunk hundreds of times, then, at age 34, he gets charged with DUI...the shame from the arrest, involvement with court, having license suspended for 90 days, and going to a weekend driver education class, will not be enough to sway this man from drinking. However, if we take another person that grew up in a healthy family system with no alcoholism or drug abuse, experimented with booze as a teen and young man, then drank responsibly as an adult, and at 34, drives home from a birthday party that was at a bar, and was pulled over. The shame from the experience, fear of the consequences, involvement with court, paying thousands of dollars, etc., is likely going to be enough to correct his behavior without him going to substance abuse therapy for 3 years...The same is true with sexual crimes. If a person grew up in a sexually abusive home or highly sexualized home, demonstrated compulsive sexual behaviors as a teen and adult, a fixation of children, and then gets reported at age 30...this man will need extensive therapy and the fear and shame from his involvement with the court will not be enough to change his behavior. The point really is that the courts have to do a better job of assessing each person who is charged with a sexual crime. Michigan simply lumps them all together.

The irony is that as juveniles, when they turn 18, their juvenile criminal record is sealed, and they never have to tell anyone that they were adjudicated of a crime (or sex crime); however, if they were adjudicated of CSC 1st or 2nd degree, on their 18th birthday they will have public notification for 25 years to life....but, because the crime was committed when they were juveniles, they never have to tell anyone that they were adjudicated. The state has tried to fix this mess by allowing some juveniles the opportunity to petition the court for removal of the system; however, I have not had one former client be given the opportunity to petition. Juvenile court's entire purpose is to rehabilitate, not punish, or so that is the intended purpose. To treat the kids the same as we treat the adults is insane. To say that a 13 year old who engages in sexually inappropriate or abusive behaviors, understands the behavior and consequences as well as a 44 year old man is a terrible mistake; yet, with the registration and notification laws, we treat them the same. The kids do not understand the terrible effect the notification will have on their lives...How does a woman, who is on the public registry for an adjudication when she was 14, explain to a new boyfriend at age 25 that she is a "sex offender" and on the public list?

The public list not only punishes the men, women, and adolescents who are on it, but it punishes all of their family members, future family members, employers, friends, etc. With the new federal legislation passing soon, where people as young as 12 will have public notification for life...The two authors of the bill stated that the federal list will effect something like 4 million men and women (who will be on the list)...however, when you account for the family members, children, parents, friends, etc., it is really effecting something upwards of 50 million people. For the youthful offenders, I know how difficult it is for them to have public notification. If, by some chance, they are able to find a man or woman to marry one day...and when they have their own children..I feel very bad for what will happen...their own children will be punished for having a mother or father being on the list...how will other kids treat them when it is well known that their mother or father is a "sex offender"? What parent will send their children to the home to play with the children? The children will be teased and isolated for their entire schooling...

If a person is so dangerous that the public needs to be informed of their whereabouts, that person should be in prison, not on the streets...the public list is a "feel good law" that creates a false perception of public protection...If a family "knows" who the registered sex offender is on their street, they can keep their children away from him/her...however, it is far more likely to be the babysitter for the family, the father or stepfather or brother, who actually presents as a risk to the children...but because we are looking in the other direction entirely, we are failing to protect the kids from the true abusers.

We are now telling offenders where they can and cannot live, even if they are not involved with the court system in any way...Several states have passed castration laws...The lawmakers want to place GPS tethers on the offenders at a cost of $700 per month..when every state is running deficits and we are in an economic recession. States such as Florida, on their sex offender notification website, have the term "fliers" next to each offenders name, however, the website states that no one can use the sex offender information as retaliatory and cannot post it...

When the lawmakers and politicians have a son or daughter that is accused, or who has engaged in sexually abusive behaviors, that will change their viewpoint on the entire process, the court system, and the law. Moreover, when property values in high income areas begin to really fall, we will then see a push to "change" the laws..for example, in Birmingham, if there is a street where the homes are going for, on average, 1.5 million, and one of the houses is listed as having a sexual offender residing there, who is going to pay top dollar to live near a "sex offender"?

As you can see, I am a little frustrated with what has been going on...I apologize for rambling to you, and I usually try and offer solutions...One of the solutions is to model our state like Ohio or Massachusetts...Is Massachusetts, they have a panel made up of many people (citizens, doctors, therapists, police, etc) that reviews each case individually, and then places them in one of three levels...the first level is registered by has no public notification, the second is registered but if the public wants to know who they are, they have to come to the police station, the third they are registered and on the website...Ohio's law is similar. As you know, Michigan just places them all together, and the list really does not give any meaningful information that could even remotely be seen as helpful to the public..for example, what should be on the list should be if the person's crime was predatory or violent...if they engaged in and completed treatment...their projected risk of reoffending, who they present the highest risk to, and so forth.

We need to use some of the money that is being wasted on prevention..how many times, while driving, do you see billboards that say "Report Sexual Abuse?" How many television commercials have you seen that focus on sexual abuse...there are plenty for drug abuse, but none for sexual abuse...we need more preventative measures..that is the only way to really tackle the problem of child sexual abuse, but yet there have been no significant efforts in the United States to do this.

The states that are doing it better than Michigan may be fighting a losing battle though..with the new federal legislation, the federal laws would trump the states, and so having a three tier system will be pointless if the federal government simply places all offenders on their website...By the way, the lists are compounding and cumulative...therefore, I would say that by 2040, one out of every four houses in the U.S. will be listed as housing a sexual offender.

Thanks for listening, and I hope there is some information contained in here that may be helpful to you. Please let me know if you have any questions at anytime.


Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, peroperic2009 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.