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#186028 - 10/09/07 10:28 PM can i love God, but be angry at Him too?
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
First, i'm not looking to debate anyone about the existence or non-existence, or partial existence of God, or "a god" or someone elses god.

i have a deep belief in the traditional God of the Christian Bible.

in therapy i have worked on my abuse at the hands of my dad, abandonment by my mother, acting out in adulthood...
i have recently begun to explore the lack of intimacy with my wife (whom I love with all my heart)...

my therapist believes i have a lack of trust and i am angry with God.

through several sessions of therapy discussing all of this, it is clear that i trust NO ONE! i am talking about the trust to expose my heart and worth to another...i truly feel that, given the chance (one that i allowed) my wife would get rid of me and doesn't truly love me...she asures me it isn't the case...
i have tried to convince myself to allow myself to be vulnerable to her and tell myself that she isn't "out to get me" the next time we have any type of altercation...but, even the prospect of doing that, makes a voice inside me SCREAM "NO...YOU CAN'T DO THAT...YOU WILL GET HURT AGAIN"...

it is part of my being, it is in every fiber of me...placed there and nurtured throughout my childhood...

so....what does all that have to do with the "subject" of this post? without consciously considering it...i now realize i am angry with God and i don't trust even Him...

i prayed to Him every night, before abuse, after abuse...during the neglect, hunger, beatings, year after year after year...to stop it, take me, kill my dad, SOMETHING to rescue me...

nothing came or happened to change it...and i, little buzz, am still angry and wondering why he wasn't worth beign saved from that hell.

this is causing me great conflict...how can i be angry at my God, THE God of all creation...of all time...HE's GOD! I don't have a right to be angry with GOD!

What do i do with this...?

VERY sad and VERY confused.

Buzz



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#186040 - 10/09/07 10:44 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
I was raised with knowledge and belief of God of the Bible. I was also taught it was alright to be angry with Him. His word even says we can be angry, but not to sin in that anger, or let the sun go down on wrath.

I argue with Him, plead with Him, yell at Him. In all things HONEST with Him (or try to be).

He knows our hearts - to not show that anger would be like trying to hide - and that doesn't work.

my opinion - but it's what I truly believe.

M


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#186050 - 10/09/07 10:51 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
MusicMan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 144
Loc: Elmira, NY
Brother buzz,

I just went to a Bible study tonight. My pastor alluded to what you are talking about. He refers to our Heavenly Father as "Daddy" because the Bible talks about us calling him "Abba Father", which pretty much means Daddy. How much more personal can we get than that. He wants us to come to him and sit on His lap and talk to Him because He loves us.

However, I know exactly what you are talking about, too. My father was an alcoholic, a mean degrading alcoholic among other things that, well, I don't want to get into. With that in mind, I was asked one time many years ago to describe what my image of what the Heavenly Father looks like. The very first image that came to my mind was one who was mean, angry, punitive, abusive, degrading, judgmental and one who had big, red eyes. It was one I was very afraid of. It was one where, the only "relationship" that I could ever have with Him was one from afar based on hurt and fear. Not one where I could ever actually talk to Him about anything. As I processed this concept, it was the de>

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#186103 - 10/10/07 02:39 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: MusicMan]
pietie Offline
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Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
Buzz

This is a difficult subject for most of us. But I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter to God, He understands. I mean we can not hide anything from Him even if we tried too, so He knows.

I have started to compare my relationship with God to my relationship with my two beautiful boys. Sometimes they are angry at me or me at them but that does not mean that I love them any less. They still mean the world to me. Sometimes they say something that hurt me but I still love them. Sometimes I can not protect them from getting hurt but that does not mean they love me any less, even if they are angry at me. There had been numerous discussions in here about why God didnt intervene in our lives. I still believe it comes back to Him not taking away our or our perps choices - but that is a debate that has been thoroughly talked about.

All I can say is that from my own life I know that I am still angry at God sometimes. But my relationship with Him is getting stronger and somehow because I dont concentrate on the anger and even hate towards Him it gets better. By spending more and more time in His Word and having a personal relationship with Him it changes us. I had one or two scream sessions at God where I told Him exactly what I thought of Him not intervening or helping me. I expected lightning to strike me any time especially after the things I said to Him - I mean He is the Almighty God - but, coming back to my relationship with my children - He is also My father. He understands andHe knows us better than we know ourselves.

I just want to encourage you my brother. It gets better. Even there it is a relationship and relationships goes up and down, have good times and bad. But just remember - He IS always there and He does understand.

So my question to you is : Can you love your children/wife, but be angry at them too? I guess that provides you with an answer to your original quastion.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#186139 - 10/10/07 09:12 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: pietie]
WalkingSouth Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Buzz,

I have a perspective here that I think you may be interested in. My short answer to your question is "Yes" you can love God and be angry at him too.

In fact I'd go so far ad to say he welcomes the anger that comes from an honest heart. 4 years ago when the shit hit the fan for me and all the memories began to surface, I went through several months of anger at God and I told him about it all. I unloaded. Through that time I learned that God had BIG shoulders and can handle our anger. He's willing to take that anger and in turn show us his loving concern and care. He's shown me that in spite of what happened to Little John he is in the process of turning it into something beautiful. He's showing me that by sharing my story with others I can give them hope that life can change for them as well.

Oh, I still get angry on occasion (like last night), and when I do I tell him about it, but he doesn't mind at all.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#186359 - 10/10/07 08:56 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: WalkingSouth]
markgreyblue Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
yes you can be buzz and I think it's important to allow yourself the permission to do so.

I think honestly we all do. I think it's impossible not to.

It's ok buzz.

Mark

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#186373 - 10/10/07 09:47 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: markgreyblue]
buzz_key Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
first, thank you guys for your thoughts on this. you have helped me.
i do see the correlation between me as a father to my children, God as my father, my kids get angry with me but still love me...same goes with God.

now, i guess it really is a trust issue...i gotta decide if i'm gonna go on trusting Him...or did i ever really in the first place...and if not, do i now?

i just don't feel strong in any direction about anything any more...

thanks friends...

buzz


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#186377 - 10/10/07 10:19 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
EGL Offline
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MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi Buzz,

I'll give you the short answer first, which is "Yes" - you can be angry with God, yet still love Him. I have been that way many times, as have many of the other guys above.

Now, the longer answer. My own spiritual story is that I was not raised in the church as a child. I have a very vague recollection of going to church when I was about 5, but we just stopped going about that point. But what I do remember is being told that God makes everything - He makes it rain, He makes the flowers and the trees, He provides our food, etc. Basically, that He is in control of everything. So, in my childlike mind I'm sure you can see what my thought processes were when my father was beating me, or my brother was molesting me, or all the other crap that happened. For so long, I wondered why God was making all that happen to me.

I was 23 before I realized that I needed God in my life. And it was because I knew that there was something bigger than myself in this world and I didn't have the power within myself to handle it alone. I'm 46 now, so I have spent half my life in a relationship with God. I can't imagine now how I managed to make it to the age of 23 without Him. It just seems like such a foreign concept that He was never in my life.

I think I'm rambling off topic here. I made my peace with God over the past a long time ago, Buzz. It wasn't His fault. If anything, I know that He grieved over what happened to me, just like He grieved so when you were being abused. It was not what He wanted to happen to me or you at all.

_________________________
Eddie

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#186389 - 10/10/07 11:45 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
Army Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 90
Loc: California
((Hey Buzz))

Army here, just a few thougths. God is trustworthy, its people who have the freedom of choice. Unfortuantly, our dad's choose to abuse us. God didn't make that choice. God did help us to get here today. All our crying out to him was heard, and we have been getting help. It may not have been the way we wanted or the way we thought it should look but here we are. Kinda like what

Psalm 33:18-22 says: "Behold the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him, On those who hope for His lovingkindness, To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. Our soul waits for the Lord; He is our help and our shield. For our heart rejoices in Him because we trust in His holy name. Let Thy lovingkindness O Lord be upon us, according as we have hoped in Thee.

Buzz all your life you have hoped in the Lord. He really hasn't let you down. He has been faithful. He is so faithful, he will wait for you.

Your friend and brother,

Army

_________________________
07 Peebbles WOR Alummni

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#186396 - 10/11/07 12:17 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: Army]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi, Buzz,

Me again. I wanted to paste the following song lyrics here for you to the song called "Amazing Grace (My Chains Are Gone)" by Chris Tomlin. I love this song (made me cry first time I heard it) and it summarizes for me the absolute beauty of a relationship with God. We have been set free.


Amazing grace
How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I'm found
Was blind, but now I see

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed

My chains are gone
I've been set free
My God, my Savior has ransomed me
And like a flood His mercy reigns
Unending love, Amazing grace

The Lord has promised good to me
His word my hope secures
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures

My chains are gone
I've been set free
My God, my Savior has ransomed me
And like a flood His mercy reigns
Unending love, Amazing grace

My chains are gone
I've been set free
My God, my Savior has ransomed me
And like a flood His mercy reigns
Unending love, Amazing grace


The earth shall soon dissolve like snow
The sun forbear to shine
But God, Who called me here below
Will be forever mine
Will be forever mine

You are forever mine


_________________________
Eddie

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#186491 - 10/11/07 10:14 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: EGL]
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
Buzz,
i was raised in a total church family - my father was the pastor. We were in church four times a week! I never questioned my faith while in denial about the CSA - in fact, it was very much part of the facade of denial. Stict adherence to the "christian" lifestyle and culture. Neat and tidy.
As I have grown older and left that culture, I now grapple every day with my faith. There are some days I have no faith at all. But the good news is that god is faithful even when we aren't. I'm glad my relationship with god is not based on my feelings or emotions...I'd be sunk. It's a good thing that god doesn't mind when we are mad at him, cause I've been all over the map on this one. loved him, hated him, ignored him, etc. I completely agree with Eddie when he says that god grieved over our abuse. In fact, it hurt him more than it did us. He shared the entire weight of it with us. Imagine seeing your child being hurt the way we were. It would send me over the edge.

I think that I have changed my thinking about god being in control. I even used to sing a song by that name! He could be in control, but he has shown his plan to the world and we choose, as humanity how to respond. We here were the victims of that response.
sorry, I ramble...I think we all struggle with this. You are so not alone. not only are we walking this path with you, thank God that his is too..even when we ignore him, are angry at him, and want him to go away.
love
Paul


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#186574 - 10/11/07 06:54 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: EGL]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
This thread speaks to me in an important and immediate way that I can't express so clearly right now. But thanks to all of you for dealing with such a topic with such confidence and faith. It shows.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#186607 - 10/11/07 08:51 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: roadrunner]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
eddie, army, and paul,

you guys really brought this home...it made me cry and cry to read what you wrote...cause now i've got nowhere to go with this...my dad is dead...all i've got is God...and i feel it slipping away, my faith...

i wish He would just take me now and end this all..boy that sounds familiar...

what a mess.

buzz


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#186617 - 10/11/07 09:21 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11078
Loc: Denver, CO
"and i feel it slipping away, my faith"

Do you think maybe it's just kinda fluxing in and out some? Every time I touch the emotions of young me, my faith takes a dip. It's not because I want that at all, but because little me knew nothing of faith. So it's hard to keep things separate and afloat some days. Things usually get back to where I want them.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#186629 - 10/11/07 10:06 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: FormerTexan]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi Buzz,

I'll start off with good, safe hug if that's o.k. {{Buzz}} It can feel like a mess at times, Buzz, I know. I can feel my faith being rattled at times when I am at my lowest feeings of despair. Above you said "all i've got is God". Try to stay focused on the fact that you do have Him, Buzz, and that He loves you beyond our imagination. Hang on man, I know it's hard.

_________________________
Eddie

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#186933 - 10/13/07 02:23 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: EGL]
Army Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 90
Loc: California
((Hey Buzz))

I was where you are a few months ago. I wanted to let God take me. I was tired and confused and hurt. I continued to pray and cry out to Him. He heard and sent people and healing my way. This site has been a big part of that.

What broke through for me was reading about Joseph, Jesus's earthly father. I realized that Joseph had to choose to love Jesus even though he wasn't his son. He chose to be an honorable father to him. Jesus experienced a healthy relationship with his earthly father. The creator of the world subjecting himself to parenting.

So Jesus had a "normal" father. ... so therefor if I have Christ in me/ in my heart I experience having a "normal" father through Him. For me this brought a healing and a touch that met my searching need for the honorable dad I never had. Jesus met me where I was, angry hurt and in need. And He never disapoints.

((Buzz)) Jesus loves you today, yesterday and tommorow. Go to Him and let him bring his earthly, fathers love to you. You will find it incredible.

Praying for ya bro!

Your friend,

Army

_________________________
07 Peebbles WOR Alummni

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#186938 - 10/13/07 02:54 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: EGL]
wojax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 171
Loc: Florida
Buzz, The God of the Bible is a loving and trusting God Look at what he gave up a Son. Can we do less for him. In the bible we are taught that our reward will come after Jesus comes back to redem his people.
So many time I here the same question in here were was God? Why did he allow this to happen to me? That is one of those questions that you will have to ask him when you go to heaven. I do know the Bible (Gods Word) never lies and he tell us that the people that hurt us will Pay and we will be rewarded for holding on and trusting him. He has proved that to me so many times over. We must have the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ to make it to heaven. Buzz Im not an educated man, I have heard people say that only the Weak Minded belive all of this Bible Stuff well I guess Im Weak Minded I do believe every word that God has said. I dont all ways do what I know he wants me to do but I try to. I know he will not forsake me or leave me evern in a lions mouth or in the mist of a Fire. He loves me all the way and I him.
I hope this helps a little, God Loves you and so do I
Gary

_________________________
Jer 7:23 ps 91:16

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#186942 - 10/13/07 03:17 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: wojax]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
andy...i am hoping it is a "fluxing" behavior...
eddie...thank you for your encouragement...
army...i never thought of the things you mentioned regarding joseph and Jesus...that is cool...
gary...thank you, too, for the encouragement...

i am a fairly new Christian (since 2001), but i do know that He loves me, just as i am...and that never wavers from Him...i am tryng so very hard to maintain my trust in Him.

i know this...i thank God for each of you...for His work in you.

buzz


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#186948 - 10/13/07 04:29 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
Paul1959 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 525
Loc: NYC
Buzz,
Remember, don't rely on your feelings to guide your faith. Because yes, you will feel sometimes that god is so far away. That is exactly the fluxing (what a great word) that Andy mentioned. Faith is different than feelings. Faith is a choice. Feelings aren't. It's OK and perfectly normal to feel that you are walking through a desolate place when it comes to your faith. That's the time when all you have is faith..the trust that God is with you every step of the way. Even non survivors experience this very thing - it's life! For us, in the tumult of all the other feelings of isolation, betrayal and confusion, it is really easy - and normal - to feel as if we have lost our way. If you are trying to follow god, you will never lose your way. A few detours now and then, possibly, but he'll never leave you or forsake you.
love
Paul


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#186964 - 10/13/07 07:27 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: Paul1959]
Army Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 90
Loc: California
Hey Buzz,

Your mail box is full, Let me know when I can send you something.

Army

_________________________
07 Peebbles WOR Alummni

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#193525 - 12/03/07 01:17 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
merch Offline
New Here

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 3
Your signals, "don't mess with my beliefs-I'm angry with God, I want to trust, but am looking for the shoe to drop" got through to me...From time to time I still get mad as hell at God; all wise, all knowing, all compassionate, all omni-present, for not being there, abandoning my human need for protection and safety in the face of obvious hell, CSA...Anymore I just don't know about God's role in all this trouble.

All I've figured that has helped is my coming to terms with CSA in human terms. God wasn't there, so be it. That I came to have so little trust in myself and misplaced much mistrust on others was only my longer term undoing, as in "he's come undone, he didn't know what he was headed for"... Ultimately I came to discover that my opening into forgiveness, healing and the restoration of trust in myself was to be on my watch, my choice, my human healing terms. If that meant God was going to hear it, my human and holy anger, so be it.

I know from dealing with CSA, it's too easy to lose heart. I believe the reclamation and restoration of our human hearts and condition is up to us...A few years back in dreamtime I was in a prison cell, behind old heavy bars. I went over to the door to rattle the lock, expecting to be locked in and shut down. To my surprise, when I touched the cell door it opened wide, like a feather with no resistance. I didn't even need a key to get out of my prison, the keys must have been inside all the time.

Buzz, keep looking and feeling, asking questions, challenging authority; I believe this is part of the healing journey and about all of us getting out of the CSA Prison...Merch


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#193640 - 12/03/07 05:49 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: merch]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11078
Loc: Denver, CO
I haven't looked at this thread in a while. I have a hard time accepting the idea of being angry at God. I read in Genesis 18 how God was telling Abraham about His plan to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, and Abraham was very cautious about his approach to God. I read things such as "let not the Lord be angry" as he approached God again and again. He wasn't in God's face, though he was astonished at the thought of God destroying the righteous with the wicked. Abraham remember his place and kept a humble approach to God. And God heard Abraham.

To me, if anyone has a right to be angry, it is God Himself. He sees all of man committing a billion sins per day. I can barely tolerate three offensive moments in the day.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#193656 - 12/03/07 07:31 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: FormerTexan]
merch Offline
New Here

Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 3
FT,

I am becoming trustful of a new emotional fact, that my periodic, yet abating anger is probably barely a ripple in the pool that God may be sitting next to. Maybe God in understanding and compassion simply knows and accepts this part, my anger, as part of my healing process. I'm not living for staying stuck in this anger, there is more to my life fabric than that and I hold to this in faith and trust.

I have remarked quietly for many years, decades now, that God must be crying a river of tears from witnessing all the unnecessary, un-needed human sorrow and suffering that goes on here day by day. Along with all the tears, God has to be thinking, "wake up, heal you hearts".

I hear your sensitivity to human offense. The hope out of my heart is that I have not offended your spiritual sensibilities in opening up about these matters.

Merch


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#193659 - 12/03/07 07:57 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: merch]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11078
Loc: Denver, CO
Merch,

Not at all. The subject just happened to come up yesterday with a preacher. Then I remembered this thread and wanted to throw some other perspective on it. You have not offended me.

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#193683 - 12/03/07 11:18 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: FormerTexan]
MusicMan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 144
Loc: Elmira, NY
Thanks guys for adding to this thread. I always need to hear things that apply to my relationship with God.

Anger at God...Hmm...interesting thoughts. I definitely act under the fear of God instead of anger. Yet, I'm just as human as everyone else and do stupid things that I should not be doing anyway. I would like to act more out of my love of God instead of fear.

merch, if you're angry with God and it gets you or keeps you talking with Him, then at least you're communicating with Him. It's a good start. I will try to remember to pray for you.

FT, I think your words are those of encouragement. Thanks.

God bless, men,
John, The Music Man.


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#193685 - 12/03/07 11:22 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: merch]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Originally Posted By: merch
Maybe God in understanding and compassion simply knows and accepts this part, my anger, as part of my healing process. I'm not living for staying stuck in this anger, there is more to my life fabric than that and I hold to this in faith and trust.

Wow, that one hit me. That's the way I've always understood this issue but have not been able to put it into words.

Thanks, Merch.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#193780 - 12/04/07 04:04 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: WalkingSouth]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Buzz raised a question that hits me really hard, but for a long time I wasn't able to understand exactly why. I don't think I am angry with God; that's not something that troubles me, at least. Cut off from God, yes; but that's something else.

It occurred to me this evening that I wish I could be angry with God, because then there would be something to resolve, something to work towards. At the moment I think Little Larry and Young Adult Larry just plain dread God. They fear that Adult Larry's quest to reconnect with God will somehow lead back to the things that destroyed them years ago, and .... then what?

Adult Larry is impatient about this because he knows none of this makes any sense, but there we have it. Dread usually is irrational, isn't it? It's there, but like smoke. You choke on it but there's nothing to grab.

Somehow anger feels more "sensible", easier to talk about and understand. So in a way I would welcome that. It would feel a lot safer than this "yes it's here/no it isn't" confusion, where the only things concrete are the memories of how you can be terrorized, raped and beaten anywhere, at any time, and how the evil of one person can hijack and contaminate even a child's innocent naive spirituality.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#195572 - 12/16/07 06:03 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: EGL]
dancr6 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/02/07
Posts: 383
Loc: georgia
in 1977 my wife and I had premature twins, a boy and a girl, our third pregnancy. I had never considered the gender of my children, the joy of the child was enough. On the third day I was working on their cradles when it struck me that I, along with having three girls, was going to have a boy, a male that I would be able to relate to without all the trash of other male relationships I'd had (Children only expect to be nurtured) All of a sudden, I felt this ecstacy thinking, "My God I'm having a son."
I felt as if I were floating. While I was in this state of ecstacy, the phone rang and it was the Doctor at the hospital telling me that my son had "expired". Wasn't being f___as a little boy enough? You think I wasn't pissed at God?
I had taken a short term class the summer before on death and dying (how ironic?) and I decided to dig my sons grave to take a solid part and make sure I experienced his departure.
I picked an old cemetary on a hill in Kentucky and began digging, I took a break and while I was resting I looked up and screamed at God, "how could you be so cruel, you wait until I am that high and then pull the rug out from under me?" "what kind of a loving God are you?" As I was crying I had a sense that there was a presence crying with me and I heard a voice that seemed to be simultaneously in and out of my head; "I wish you could see how this fits into the overall scheme of things but, for now, you can't" The feeling of peace that overcame me is indescribable and even though I wept at the loss of a future with my son, I had the sense that everything would be OK. I don't evangelize
but I do believe in all of this making sense some day without judgement of how angry we were. God's tough and not easily hurt.

_________________________
I'm a freeman now, his authority's dead
no pain monger lies in my comfortable bed!

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#210324 - 03/12/08 04:33 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: EGL]
JT's the Man Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 41
YES TO THE POSTER>..

think of God as a friend.

it is okay to be angry at a friend!!!


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#210330 - 03/12/08 04:51 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: JT's the Man]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
I too am at times angry with God. I consider myself a Christian even though I have not really studied the Bible. Read it yes, but not to the point of feeling I know most of what is said there. I can only focus on my feelings toward God and how he has worked in my life. And I feel he has worked wonders with this terrible person that I was and still am.

Yea, I get angry that God has let me go through so much of the bad that has happened in my life. I know he does not cause these things to happen, he just lets them happen because of the sinful world that we live in.

I know that I want to do things my way when I want to do them. And then when I screw my life up, then I seem to ask God to take over and straighten out what I screwed up all by myself. And you know, for me, he just steps in and does that for me. He always seems to be there for me and helps me, even though my first impulse on life is to do it my way when I want to do it.

So my anger sometimes is if he know best and I know God does, then why does he just take ove my life and not let me always screw up, fall down, make mistakes? I feel at times that he should stop forgiving me because I always mess up. I feel like this little kid who is just mad at everything. Why does he let me not use common sense and just do such stupid things?

So, yea, I get angry with God. I just am so glad and releived that he does not hold this against me or any one else. He Loves Me, Boy it I could just love back a fraction of how much he loved me, I would be a good man.

Thanks for letting me ramble on.

Ken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#210398 - 03/12/08 10:27 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: KENKEN]
VLinvictus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
Of course one can be angry at God. But then again, I'm a Jew and "Israel" means "he who struggles with God."

Moses is a perfect example. He complains repeatedly to God why He gave him this rebellious and stiff-necked people to lead. In Numbers 11:15 he gets so fed up that he comes out and says to God "If this is the way You're going to treat me, then just kill me now!"

A lot of the Psalms, too, are anguished -- and angry - cries of why God doesn't seem to be doing what He's supposed to.

Of course, since the Shoah, those of us who still believe in a kind of personal God rightly have had cause to be just a wee bit pissed off.

_________________________
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

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#210412 - 03/13/08 12:04 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: EGL]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
Buzz,
Like everyone else has said the answer is YES of course you can. He is person. He understands you better than yourself. You think he doesn't know your mad at him? I was very mad at God for a while and we had quite a few heated (on my part) discussions. He appreciates the honesty in the relationship. It is like our CSA issues. If we do not acknowlege them and deal with them they will come between everthing and everyone in our lives. Same with God. He can't heal what we won't admit is a problem. Don't ask me how I know that. Thanks for posting this Buzz. I really appreciate you.


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#211000 - 03/16/08 07:48 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
kiwi64 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Georgia, USA
Buzz,

There is nothing wrong with your thoughts and belief's, they are your own and you own them.

I was abused by a priest and I remember praying before, during and after to god to interven. This did not happen, so I was and still am angry at god. It was particularly relevant in my case, as some of the abuse took place in a church, gods home right???.

If you process your anger, as I am starting to do now, you may find that one of the fears you have is that your version of god, does not match that with what you have been told in the bible. It doesn't make you any less a christian to do this, in fact I believe that it makes you a better christian as you can truly understand gods love.

I have the same problem with intimacy with my wife. There is no easy answer. What happened to you changed your value system and your survival skills. Unfortunately there is no easy answer for how long it takes. I guess you need to ask yourself, does your wife trust you, and do you trust yourself. I have found that it is hard to trust my wife, but when I asked myself these questions, it was uncomfortable and very counterintuative, but I was able to let go of my fear and to start to trust her a bit. I have to say, it has been hard, but I am actually being ok with a little vulnerability. I still have the fear of abandonment with my wife, and i fear that if she know the full extent of my abuse she would leave me. But the way I see it in your case, your wife knows about the abuse, and she is still with you, she also says she won't leave you, so you have two for two in the marriage stakes.

Maybe you should consider what it would look like if you were truly happy, where you were able to share joy with your wife. My one goal in therapy and recovery is to be happy. With a lack of trust you never can be truly happy because you think that people will see you vulnerable and that is dangerous. The way I see it now(and it has taken a lot of time and countless thearpy sessions), is that we survived, we have a right to true happiness, and this comes from within when we can share it with someone we trust and love.

I know its easy to say, but ask yourself honestly do you deserve to be happy, and do you want to let someone else see you that way.

Good luck on your journey, feel free to email me if you would like to.

_________________________
"the only limit to what can be achieved is our own imagination" Albert Eienstien

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#211007 - 03/16/08 08:18 AM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: kiwi64]
GateKPR4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 955
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I don't believe in the God I learned through Christianity or the God of my Protestant upbringing as a child. I do believe in God for lack of a better word. I do believe I have faith in some collective conscience and good that permeates through the cosmos and is powerful and all loving. I believe we tap into this and it gives us the courage to go on. Divine intervention seemed to be a part of my life and has had a profound effect on my belief system. When I think of the God of my childhood I do get angry because where was the protection I deserved like everyone else that seemed to have. I know now that there were a lot of people that did not have this protection even in the church. A misconception of a confused child.
Today its different and I have much more knowledge than I did as a child. I have the faith of a child as I believe in something without reservation and with innocence, I believe that faith in whatever you choose has great power.

_________________________
I'm a normal person dealing with abnormal experiences.
The greatest discoveries we will find within ourselves.
Ricky
__m_ô¿ô_m__
|| || || || || || |

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#211140 - 03/16/08 08:23 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: buzz_key]
jcf1957 Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 192
Loc: North Of The 49th Parallel
Hi Buzz;
I'd say that just about every believer in God will ask why do such terrible things happen to many God's human creatures who try to fathom with great effort and question why so many of us are faced with a living hell in our lives. I don't think even the greatest saints and theologians were able to fully; answer why chaos happens to so many human beings in this primitive wretched world. And honestly I don't have the wisdom to give all the answers myself. However; if I may; you might consider taking your time by slowly reading the story of ("Job") in the Old Testament. It won't answer all your queries about personal suffering in life; but it might make you understand that God doesn't work the way humans think. Is God insensitive to human suffering ?
Some might surely think so. Perhaps it's more likely that God is more concerned about the human soul than He is about physical and mental suffering. Does that make your situation or anybody else's on this site any easier ? No ! However; in the end perhaps it's all a matter of prospective and asking ourselves ("why we are really here") in this world for a short span of time. The philosophies of todays society will tell us its all about ("Me, Myself, and I") But; is that really true ? A man is never remembered for all his accomplished efforts and what he owns in life; but, rather the good he leaves behind for others.
Reading the biblical book of Job never took away any of my sufferings. However; it has made contemplate and look at the true meaning of life in a more humble way. Buzz_Key my friend I sincerely hope you find the puzzling answers your looking for.
At least your here among friends who understand the sufferings we are sometimes forced to bear. What was it I heard my little niece say coming home from Sunday morning catechism school. ("For Every Door That Is Closed In Life, God Opens A Window") I hope your days ahead are better my friend.



Edited by jcf1957 (03/17/08 09:07 AM)
_________________________
No affliction nor temptation, no guilt nor power of sin, no wounded spirit nor terrified conscious should induce us to despair comfort from God.

Today well lived...makes every tomorrow a vision of Hope.
Anonymous

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#211188 - 03/16/08 11:34 PM Re: can i love God, but be angry at Him too? [Re: jcf1957]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 2723
Loc: Washington State
God's goal is to raise better sons and daughters. To teach us through life's lessons and build our character. He wants us to become loving compassionate generous persons. That takes dicipline.

Our enemy's goal is to fatten us for slaughter. To him we are food. If we are fat and happy so much the better. If he can tease and torment us and make us miserable and get his kicks even better still.


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