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#184372 - 10/03/07 11:25 AM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303



And also.... you wouldn't have produced 5 reasons to stay connected to others....

And lots of other stuff too.

I really like the analogy with the dragon, sort of a false battle -- the real battle is probably exposing the most vulnerable aspects of one's self.

Take care,
Katie


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#184427 - 10/03/07 01:47 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Wow, this really hit home home for me too. Wikapedia has lots of info too.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#184437 - 10/03/07 02:34 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: mogigo]
Kathryn Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


The DSM diagnostic category sort of has diluted the complexity of schizoid processes by breaking it up into schizoid, avoidant, dependent and schizotypal. With the DSM interpretation all you get are "outward" manifestations rather than an exploration of secret desires, fantasies and the like.

For people who write on the subject and see schizoid, avoidant, dependent and schizotypal as various manifestations or processes of schizoidism more broadly concieved, they tend to make a big deal out of the fact that a lot of these people have secrety fantasies of deep connection -- though they may take the form of fantasizing about being a rock star so that all the girls will love you, etc. -- and they take this as a really good thing and one of the things that makes schizoid people a joy for therapists to work with.

Anyway, I kind of like this more positive, and in my mind, more humanistic approach because it seems to me that a schizoid withdrawel is almost inevitable in cases of childhood sexual abuse. And it seems to me that all this sexual acting out (and other forms of acting out) are merely a symptom of trying to stay in contact with the withdrawn original or more authentic or more vulnerable self -- and as a means to escape possible harm to that self through creating a fantasy in which there's a semblance of feeling without the real risk. Sooooo..... it's sort of an indication that there's attempts/struggles to do the real thing. And I find that a positive interpretatoin of some pretty negative action -- which works for me \:\)

In other words -- there seems to be real desire to attatch, which is way more than half the battle.

Take care,
Katie


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#184440 - 10/03/07 02:44 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
A desire to connect, to have a soulmate, has been my reason from the start for trying to sort out (understatement) my problems.

Have loved this post, thanks especially to Katie, great stuff.

Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#184448 - 10/03/07 04:13 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
kellygtx Offline
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Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Kathryn -

I was diagnosed with an Avoidant Personality Disorder (as many CSA survivors have) but they also debated Borderline Personality Disorder because I do (or did) cut myself. But with the exception of cutting I did not meet the other criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder.

I agree that acting out and cutting are both ways to stay connected - but that is a false connection as both ways are emotionally detached. Neither acting out or cutting provided me, nor did I want, any emotional connection. But then I do understand your point that it is a struggle to express a real desire to connect - just not knowing how when you feel you will destroy someone - or worse yet be destroyed (rejected) by them.

You are too good (and too smart) at this!!



Edited by kellygtx (10/03/07 04:14 PM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#184454 - 10/03/07 05:14 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: kellygtx]
Kathryn Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303

Thanks Kelly.

I've become pretty interested in diagnostic categories because my little boy is have some difficulties in school and thus far people have speculated that he has auditory processing disorders, he's a bit Asperger's, he has Non-verbal Learning Disability (which looks a whole lot like Asperger's to me), he has ADD. None of these things seem to add up to me -- except some Asperger's-like stuff or schizoid tendencies.

But.... he also has an exceptionally high IQ, so people who study high IQ kids are coming up with a new nomenclature to describe what others refer to as "Asperger's" or schizoid tendencies because they say that this is not "pathological" in gifted kids cuz it's just part of being gifted....

They're also encouraging a differential diagnosis be made when you're dealing with an exceptionally high IQ and are confronted with what might look like Borderline Personality -- cuz all those emotionally exagerated traits, including over-emphasis on moral considerations, are really just "excitabilities" when seen in a person with a higher than average IQ.

So I guess if you're really emotional and concerned about justice and are smart you're ok. If you're stupid, then you have a personality disorder.... Yikes!!!!

Sort of funny.

Schizoid Personality Disorder is rarely diagnosed in the U.S., but is a common diagnosis in Britain.

The DSM, and thus most therapists, define Borderline Personality in one way, but others define it in another way. Kernberg uses it to describe levels of functioning -- as in the borderline between neurosis and psychosis -- so a person can be Narcissistic at either the neurotic level or the borderline level, or Schizoid at either the neurotic or borderline level.

So I guess a person could be Borderline at either level as well. Maybe I'm Borderline at the neurotic level -- though I've never cut, never questioned my sexual identity -- but I sure do have a lot of "excitabilities" -- and don't even get me started on what I think's right and how the world should be -- and would be if there were any justice at all and I were God.

Some people think we all have a neurotic and psychotic structure -- cuz staying too much in contact with reality would fucking drive us crazy.

Still.... every once in a while a person will write about a pattern they see and it just sounds more or less evocative. Some of what's been written about schizoid processes strike me this way -- especially from people coming from the self and/or relational psychological schools of thought.

Cutting/acting out -- my therapist puts it in terms of trying to shock the self back into feeling life -- or something like this. Maybe it's a call to the hidden away vulnerable self to wake the hell up and drink a cup of coffee with someone you really care about.

Take care,
Katie


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#184457 - 10/03/07 05:31 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


I don't know, I'm thinking more and more that it's better to put things in terms of processes or preferred styles than "personality" cuz personality is so loaded now with the idea of structure, like houses and cares are structured. Sure, there's brain structures and other biological structures, and these are important, but they're important because becaue of the processes they open up which probably can't be predetermined based on the structure itself -- which certainly acts as a limiting factor, but doesn't act as a sole cause the multiple possible choices within those limitations.

I really like attachment theory. Maybe one day we'll speak in terms of attachment styles rather than personality disorders.

Anyway --

K.


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#184458 - 10/03/07 05:34 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
kellygtx Offline
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Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Hey wait - my neurologist (who is also a board certified psychiatrist) says he thinks I have Aspergers Syndrome and that it is closely related to the neurological problem I have called Myoclonis Dystonia. Interesting you brought that up! I know you must be thinking "Holy shit this guy is really fucked up!" Actually I have been relatively successful in my public "self" although very withdrawn and isolated.

YOU ARE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!



Edited by kellygtx (10/03/07 05:43 PM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#184485 - 10/03/07 07:21 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: kellygtx]
Kathryn Offline
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


In studies that have tracked kids diagnosed with Asperger's they end up diagnosed as Schizoid as adults.

My son, Jason, had benign hydrocephalus (familial macrocephaly) when he was born. It's a form of hydrocephalus (extra fluid on the brain) that is not catastrophic and does not require surgical intervention. It's called benign because it's been assumed that the fluid get reabsorbed by age 2 and that it doesn't cause much problem -- just bigger than average heads.

But the few studies that have tracked these kids show a tendency both to high IQs and "learning disabilities" -- especially with neurological deficits like strabmismus (where the eyes don't track together), poor gross and fine motor skills, speach impediment (and delayed speaking), and oddly, turned out feet.

It's speculated that the extra fluid promotes high IQs because the fluid is intimately connected to the development of the brain, especially it's fold and fiber growth. But if there's too much fluid, then brain damage can occur -- and if enough damage is incurred then a lowering of the IQ can occur.

There's speculation that a similar process is at work in Asperger's -- or that some of these children grow up to be Asperger's and other stuff is at work in the case of smaller-headed Asperger's....

But then you have to define Asperger's. There's a tendency to broaden it's definition so much that a whole bunch of people could fall into this category.

For instance, there's no doubt in my mind that Jason has Asperger's like tendencies -- or schizoid like tendencies -- he introverted, likes daydreaming a whole heck of a lot (it's one of his favorite activites), there's a general, soft tendency on his part to not cue in when other children are approaching him --ie, there's a natural inward turn.

When he was younger he was also very sensitive to bright lights, loud noises, didn't like tags in his cloths, and I still have to buy the "right" kinds of socks otherwise he can feel the seams which he really doesn't like.

BUT.... He has good eye contact when you do get his attention, is very empathetic, enjoys and gets jokes, puns and the like.

I've recently gotten ahold of a neuropsychologist in another state who has a vita longer than this post. While she was reluctant to diagnose Jason over the phone she also wanted to reasure me and so told me that she doubts he's either Asperger's or Non-verbal learning disabled.

What she's thinking is that the hydrocephalus caused limited brain damage mostly to the areas which control for motor-sequencing tasks -- which ends up looking a bit like all the speculated diagnoses... yet doesn't.

She was pretty interesting because according to her a person with either Asperger's proper (or Non-verbal learning disorders) can't score as high as Jason has on the Verbal sections of the IQ screenings -- cuz past a certain point if you have to grasp the social meanings of language, especially play on words, humor, etc....

Still, if a specialist suggests he's a bit Asperger's or something along those lines I'm not offended because he does have certain tendencies in that direction. It's just that it's important to get a better or more de>

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#184630 - 10/04/07 10:55 AM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Kathryn -

I don't know how to unravel the symptoms of the abuse, Myoclonic Dystonia, and , potentially Asperger's Syndrome. They all seem so intertwined at this point. I don't think they can be unraveled and have to be dealt with 'on the whole' so to speak.

I am much better communicating here or via email then I am verbally. And to sit in a room with you - well you would swear you were in the room alone. Talking to you - or just sitting still with out jerking or something like that would be very hard for me. Knowing you wanted to communicate with me would make me very uncomfortable. And forget about eye contact - I find it very intimidating. But when I do talk I have been accused of being very "Alan Greenspan'ish".

I find - but am getting better - that real emotional intimacy, thou I love my wife and children very much - is so damned difficult.

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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