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#184604 - 10/04/07 08:44 AM question mostly for survivors
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
ok before anyone (and that means YOU) who are about to remind me "he needs to do the work"

i get it, ok? as well as

"he needs to own his own recovery"

i get that too, ok?

BUT, all the same, i'm a big influence in his life, and his situation effects me, too,

so, i want to know - to you survivors who have read "victims no longer" what influenced you to read the book - that one in particular?

also those of you who can remember what started you on the road to recovery, what exactly was it?

yes, i wrote "mostly for survivors" but ladies, if you DO recall anything that may have got your guy going in the right direction, please do share (whether or not he's still going there or not)

thanks to all who share,

indy



_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#184648 - 10/04/07 12:41 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
Agape Girl Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 120
Loc: New Jersey, USA
Indy:

Thanks for posting this, I feel you and I'm looking for the same answers this week too. It's hard to know what nudging is and what's pushing. Also my partner is different from your partner. I'd certainly apprieciate a little guidance from my partner but I don't know how or if I can ask that of him. Currently I am working on asking him if we could have another couples session sometime very soon. I go back and forth on whether to ask him or not, and of course ask my good friends here their thoughts. So right now, I'm just waiting for the answer.

I'm right beside you girl! right there on the left side leaning my head on your shoulder, feel free to do the same.

always,
Kelly

_________________________
AGAPE'
means selfless love of one person for another
without sexual implications
(especially love that is spiritual in nature)

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#184650 - 10/04/07 01:03 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: Agape Girl]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: Agape Girl
It's hard to know what nudging is and what's pushing.


i'm almost ashamed to say i've considered bribing him (to read the book)? with money? is that pathetic or what? \:o

(and yes i do KNOW it wouldn't work!!!)
p.s. it won't work because he rarely ever accepts anything from anyone!!!

indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#184654 - 10/04/07 01:24 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
rcm Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 156
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: indygal
so, i want to know - to you survivors who have read "victims no longer" what influenced you to read the book - that one in particular?

also those of you who can remember what started you on the road to recovery, what exactly was it?


  • I did some research and this seemed like a very good book when I started my journey. By the way, I have not been able to finish that book. I tried to start and the tears kept coming. Even just opening the book, before I started reading I was already crying. I had to put it down. I will get back to it when I feel I can handle it.
  • I became aware of certain patterns in my behaviour after an incident in which an older man who was touching me inappropriately triggered some memories and a strong reaction. I did this all on my own although I did get some valuable feedback from close friends.


I have two good friends who, based on their behaviour, I am sure are victims of CSA. They know about my experience. I can see their expressions change when I talk about it. I cannot do anything about it. They will start the healing when they are ready. I think it will cause more damage to try to "help" them. Sounds like you've heard this before and do not like to be told again. My comment is, there is a reason why people say this and there is a reason why you dislike it. I invite you to think about it.

_________________________
______________________________________________
Prince Zuko: [looking at a map] How am I going to find the Avatar? He is clearly a master of evasive maneuvering.
Sokka: [cut to him, looking at the same map] You have no idea where you're going, do you?

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#184655 - 10/04/07 01:37 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
My past came to a head after my Mom died. I think I was going to use the same method and bury everything but I think maybe I ran out of energy to do that. For twenty years you could have told me to work on it but I just wouldn't believe it even had an effect on me. It was buried so deep, it really was a non issue in my mind. Obviously I was wrong but I just couldn't see it.

Until he see's it for himself, it not even going to make sense to him that there are issues.

"Victims no longer" was a recommendation by every single survivor I met.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#184660 - 10/04/07 02:03 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Indygal -

What started me down that path - a complete meltdow. I told her everything and said I need help. We went to see a therpist for the first time and she was smart enough to see my issues were way over her head. My wife and her talked for a day or two (I was a wreck) and within 48 hours I was on a plane going inpatient for 6 weeks to a facility that specialized in trauma and abuse.

It was a hard 6 weeks - apart from my wife and 5 kids - but it saved my life. While I was there I was given that book and Abused Boys by Mic Hunter. We had group everyday and somedays we just sat and read parts of either book outloud and talked. Those days were really hard for us all.



Edited by kellygtx (10/04/07 02:03 PM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#184664 - 10/04/07 02:32 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: kellygtx]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
I kept my abuse inside for 37 years... always guarding that secret with total self control... but one night, I got very drunk, and I just couldn't hold it in anymore... it came like a flood. I told my family, I started therapy - went twice and then fell so deep into my alcoholism, I almost lost my job, family and friends. I quit drinking, and put my recovery on hold for 4 years until I had sobriety firmly under my belt. I made a lot of changes in those years, got healthy, stopped smoking, and got back in touch with my friends, wife and children. I left an abusive boss... In short, I heeded to create an environment that would allow me to do the work I knew was ahead of me.

I tried to read Victims many times, but it has been very difficult for me... It just makes me too emotional... The first time I tried, I actually threw it under the bed because if felt like it was reading my mind!... I keep in next to my bed, and and I open it sometimes, but have not gotten very far. The book that was easier for me was Mic Hunter's, "Abused Boys" that Kelly mentione3d. Don't know why, but it has provided me with a lot of help.

But the best thing I have found is this site, the men here and in particular, some very, very close friends that always support me... no matter what... My wife has been somewhat removed from my healing... that was a mutual decision... she is supportive, but we do not talk a lot about the specifics of my recovery - it works for us, because we communicate very closely about everything in general, I can just say, "having a bad day" and she will be there for me without having to know specifics.

Hope that is helpful... As mogigo said, he needs to find what works for him... it sort of happens... but knowing you support him whenever he is ready will be huge.

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#184666 - 10/04/07 02:34 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: rcm
I think it will cause more damage to try to "help" them. Sounds like you've heard this before and do not like to be told again.


let's just say i've "strongly encouraged" him, stopping short of screaming "GET HELP DAMN IT" but it might be going that way soon, sigh....

indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#184673 - 10/04/07 03:16 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
rcm Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 156
Loc: Boston, MA
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
There is much wisdom in this sentence.
I am really fighting with writing what's on my mind because I am sure you heard it before and it will automatically trigger a reaction in you.
If I may suggest something .... if the fact that he is not responding to your "strong encouragment" a problem for you, then focus on that problem. This is perfectly within your control. The other problem is not.
If you cannot do anything about a situation, and you try to "fix it" when you obviously cannot, it can only lead to frustration. Focus on what you can control, ie your response to the situation.
I sincerely hope this helps and wish you the best to you and your partner.

_________________________
______________________________________________
Prince Zuko: [looking at a map] How am I going to find the Avatar? He is clearly a master of evasive maneuvering.
Sokka: [cut to him, looking at the same map] You have no idea where you're going, do you?

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#184674 - 10/04/07 03:17 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
rcm Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 156
Loc: Boston, MA
By the way your situation really *really* triggers me. I thought I'd let you know in case my input may be of any help to you. I have a hard time reading this type of messages and actually stayed away from them until now, I think because of the way you titled this thread. Usually I will stay away from the "Family and Friends" discussions.

_________________________
______________________________________________
Prince Zuko: [looking at a map] How am I going to find the Avatar? He is clearly a master of evasive maneuvering.
Sokka: [cut to him, looking at the same map] You have no idea where you're going, do you?

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#184728 - 10/04/07 08:46 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Indygal:

I'm going to answer your second question first. I didn't realize I was abused as a child until I saw the way my mother (my perp) was treating (grooming?) my 8 year old nephew just a few months ago. There was a lot more to it than that, but a big part of me figuring this all out was a desire to protect my nephew.

This isn't an easy road. Some of the things that survivors need to face are things that we don't want to face on a subconscious level that is quite strong. How could I face the possibility that what my mother did to me wasn't out of love? How could I face the possibility that my mother wasnt' capable of love? This is stuff that can't be rationalized. It must be felt, and when one forces feelings back long enough, sometimes one forgets how to feel. Learning how to feel again is probably the biggest stepping stone for most survivors.

As far as Mike Lew's book goes, please don't force this book upon a survivor until he is ready. Lew's book was an extremely difficult read for me. It would trigger me so strongly, I would go for days at a time without being able to function at all. However, it would trigger me in a way that I wouldn't even realize until several hours after I put it down. I was about 2/3 of the way through the book before I started to realize what it was doing to me, and I haven't picked it up since.

There is a book by Mic Hunter called Abused Boys that is also a good read. The first half of the book is the part that is worth reading. The second half is a bunch of survivor stories, and they do nothing but trigger me. However, my recommendation for any survivor is to read the first half of Abused Boys. This should be the first book on male sexual abuse for any male survivor.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#184733 - 10/04/07 09:21 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hello, Indy, and thanks for asking this of us. It does mean a lot to a survivor when someone takes an interest in their recovery.

My own experience is that I was 43 years old before I finally told my wife about the past on May 31, 2004. We had been married for nearly 16 years at that point, and while she had suspicions that there was some trauma in the past, she never asked me about it. What finally brought it all out was after an incident I had with my father in which he berated me and made me feel exactly as though I were 10 years old again. He had been physically and emotionally abusive to me as a child, and this was just like old times. So basically, the floodgates were now open and I spilled the majority of the past to my wife.

As to the VNL book, after joining here I quickly saw that it was the de facto standard text for dealing with SA. I bought it, read it, cried through it, and finally felt like I was no longer alone.

Thanks again for asking. I appreciate it.

_________________________
Eddie

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#184741 - 10/04/07 10:26 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: rcm
By the way your situation really *really* triggers me. I thought I'd let you know in case my input may be of any help to you. I have a hard time reading this type of messages and actually stayed away from them until now, I think because of the way you titled this thread. Usually I will stay away from the "Family and Friends" discussions.


RCM,

thank you so much for sharing your feelings about my post and providing your answer - it's a much needed reality check for those of us who really sometimes just don't understand, as much as we want to.

all the best,
indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#184742 - 10/04/07 10:29 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: BJK]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: BJK
As far as Mike Lew's book goes, please don't force this book upon a survivor until he is ready. Lew's book was an extremely difficult read for me. It would trigger me so strongly, I would go for days at a time without being able to function at all. However, it would trigger me in a way that I wouldn't even realize until several hours after I put it down. I was about 2/3 of the way through the book before I started to realize what it was doing to me, and I haven't picked it up since.

There is a book by Mic Hunter called Abused Boys that is also a good read. The first half of the book is the part that is worth reading. The second half is a bunch of survivor stories, and they do nothing but trigger me. However, my recommendation for any survivor is to read the first half of Abused Boys. This should be the first book on male sexual abuse for any male survivor.


BJK,

again, sometimes we are just clueless until you survivors share this kind of info with us. thanks so much, i do appreciate it.

all the best,
indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#184743 - 10/04/07 10:37 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
to all of you survivors who are reading this and those who have answered:

as partners, friends, family, etc., mostly we really ARE clueless as to how you feel, what you are going through, whether in recovery, thinking about it, in sometimes, out others.

thanks guys for sharing here in this forum, it's HUGE in the way it helps us understand our relationships that much better; and with understanding comes acceptance.

indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#184744 - 10/04/07 10:37 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
Kristofer Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1
Loc: Massachusetts, Cape Cod
Hi BJK,
I finished Mic Hunter's book, Abused Boys last week and have to say that the patients' stories were very difficult for me to read but I made myself read one story each night...It was difficult yet it made me feel less alone and made me feel that there are people out there that have been trough some awful things that I once had to endure by my sick and twisted uncle. The questions after each story were very helpfl as well. I wish ypu only the best...especially love...........Kris


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#184745 - 10/04/07 10:42 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
GWsurvives Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 251
Loc: Atlanta, and here, among othe...
Indy.. my recovery started after my second wife left me. I went to a "marriage counselor" to try and convinvr my wife to give me another chance. After seking to him for an hour, and my wife speaking to hi for hour (seperatly).. I went back to see him.. He asked me flat ou: "Is there any abuse in your past?". I thought he was talking about in my marriage... After a few minutes.. he rephrased the question... "was there any abuse in 'your' childhood?". THAT floored me.. When I said I yes, and explained, he asked if I had therapy for it. WTF?? that was 30 years ago. He suggested that I get therapy, or at the very least, read Lew's book. When I sobered up... I read Lew's book.. when I sobered up again... I asked him to recommend a therapist... that was over a year ago... I am growing.. I am learning..... I am HEALING!!!!

_________________________
"Some times there just aren't enough rocks" Forrest Gump

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#184748 - 10/04/07 11:00 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
Indy,

You may know what I'm going to say but threatening my husband w/ divorce was the ONLY way he ever agreed to go to therapy, by himself. Even with that threat he wouldn't go to counseling W/ ME.

I just came out and told him I had talked to an attorney (I had, and they had the papers ready to file, signed, etc. by me, all they needed was my Visa # and $3,000.00). I had literally been brought to the end of my rope. I didn't understand his lack of emotion, lack of feeling, he was saying things like "I don't care about anything and I don't know why." It was scaring me. I didn't recognize him. I started worrying about the safety of me and our daughter. I was afraid he was turning into a sociopath. I just didn't know what to think, as a person on the outside.

Here we are over a yr later and he still hasn't touched any of the books (and I bought and read all of them), nor has he come to this site, which I recommended well over a yr (2 yrs?) ago.

The only way I know how to be is to let him know I'm 'on his side,' as though he is a wild horse and won't be tamed by a very strong trainer, but only by gentleness and patience. I jump-started things w/ threatening divorce, sure, b/c we were in crisis and I had nowhere to turn. But now I float along w/ him for what seems like will be an eternity.

If someone had told me I had been covertly abused by my parents' through their chronic invalidation of me, I would have been suspicious of the person telling me that. What did they have against my parents? They didn't grow up w/ them so how would they know anyway? Were they trying to make me upset? Instead I learned this on my own completely, slowly, w/ therapy....it just came out...it wasn't led in that direction or anything, it just got discovered by me as to why I would tolerate so much neglect from my husband....hmmmm, maybe I was raised to expect it? And then I knew. But I had to figure it out on my own. My T probably suspected I had been covertly abused growing up, but a good one will let you figure it out on your own, even though it takes longer generally.

It IS frustrating b/c it is like we KNOW something our survivors don't yet know themselves and we can't wait till they know it too so we can finally talk about it and get on w/ life and get to a better place together.

"Now it's just a waiting game," is what the neuropsychiatrist, my T's boss, told me, about my situation. A waiting game. It's like the waiting room from hell, isn't it. I mean, I'm so tired of waiting, like you!

I do think it will come to light to him sooner w/ therapy than without, just b/c in therapy one seeks to discover the why's of things. I wish mine would at least come here or read a book too, but he will not. The best I can do right now is hope that we will find another good T when I join him in the other state where he is starting his new job. I am trying to sell our house.

I'm sorry it's so hard right now. I am right there w/ you, as are many other partners.

I also think I am starting to finally understand how certain things will make it come up...like feeling emotion when there's new trauma, like a car wreck or a job loss or a funeral...it's like the brain only has so much "disk space" for storing away such emotions, and when you try to overstuff it, it breaks the lid and won't close again. My own parents are not doing so well right now and I wouldn't be surprised if both pass on in the next yr or two, so maybe that will be his trigger, I don't know.

Keep well,

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#184750 - 10/04/07 11:03 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
P.S. Indy one thing I did give to him to read that he did read was a one or two-page article about PTSD, the effects of it, which explained his weird lack of emotions/numbness. I had gone to the T and she gave it to me to give to him. He at least learned that much, that he must have PTSD, because it was a perfect match to what he was feeling or not feeling, and so I think maybe he began to accept that perhaps his csa had been traumatic even though he never thought of it that way. So maybe see if you can get him to read about PTSD, which I think most if not all survivors of trauma have to a degree, and that is just skimming the surface that "something is wrong" but not outright speaking about his very personal and embarrassing csa.

_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#184794 - 10/05/07 03:19 AM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
It took me a few month's for everything to sink in, I kind of went on a fact finding mission, and once I had gotten all the info I could it really became a matter of no going back. Everything just fell into place after that.

I've heard over and over again that it was just time for it to come out. I believe that, that it was just the right time, it couldn't have happened any other way. But there was outside factors that led me to where I'm at, I can really boil it down to someone telling me that I was raped and I needed to deal with that, although it was much more subtle \:\)

This is a very individual opinion. I would not recommend manufacturing a crises obviously, but I was guided to the truth with caring and concern after a traumatic event. It all just lined up.

The person who helped me was a stranger I met on the net. That might have helped me because it gave me alot of hope that there were people who cared without wanting something from me. Meant a big deal to me.

A lot of trauma, a little caring and one brick pulled out of my wall and I'm on the path to recovery.

Just 2 cent's okay, we're all different.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#184844 - 10/05/07 10:59 AM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
thecoopstah Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/04
Posts: 589
Loc: massachusetts
From my experiences i can tell you that after reading "victims no longer" i was so inspired by how mike lew was able to put it in a way for all who read it.

If i had to pick one,just one,thing within that book and how it helped me was boundaries and how the behaviors,actions-re-actions and all apspect of our lives are so impacted by who we are today as a result of our childhood(s).


Finally i was so influenced in my recovery and this book in particular that i was so tired of the fear,confusion,pain,isolation,anger,startle response(being frightened easily)....etc etc etc ...that just being in therapy was not going to "cut it" therefore having the information and how profound mike lew was in his way of explaining for all to absorb and understand was outstanding.

I hope i was able to answer your question / concern about the influence i had to read this book i will not soon forget.


Coopstah

PS: i suggest you read it SLOWLY and DO NOT read it in one or even a few days because it's deep and very provocative emotionally.



Edited by thecoopstah (10/05/07 11:00 AM)
_________________________
" You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have "

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#184863 - 10/05/07 12:14 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: thecoopstah]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Indy,

Cool idea for a thread. I was influenced to read VNL by the repeated references to it here on MaleSurvivor. Before coming here I only had the foggiest idea that I might not be alone with the burden I carried, and I sure didn't think there would be good books on the subject. Mike Lew's book is one I have read over and over again, and I keep learning something new each time.

When I first started dealing with things I thought was simply losing it and going insane. Then admitting to myself what the problem really was hit me hard and blew me away for a time - so back to the bottle to regroup. Then in November 2003 I was online with my sister and just typed "Cathie I was molested when I was little", and wondered did I dare send it. I did fortunately, and she's been there for me ever since.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#184895 - 10/05/07 01:39 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: roadrunner]
violet Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 118
Loc: US
Thank you Agape Girl for starting this.

A big thank you to all the survivors who have been so helpful to us partners. Your insights have been invaluable.

I am also reading victims no longer right now. it has been a huge eye opener for me.

When i first came across MS in July, I was at my wit's end about my husband. I was too pushy.

I think it was just my way of trying to protect him. I felt guilty that there was no one to protect him or confide in when the abuse occured.

Agape Girl, he has been dealing with the abuse in his own ways for so long. They have placed all of their trust in us by sharing the burden of it with us. At this point, I am so sorry I was not more patient with him. I am ashamed of myself. But it is so painful to see my man in such a vulnerable state.

But what did he need?

Some time to stew things over in his mind.

Things are slowly getting better for us. He is moving at his own rate...on his own accord. My level of frustration improved 95% when I let him be in control of his own recovery. Now, that is just us. Not all will be the same. But it is what is working for us.

BTW, thank you to all the survivors who give us the insights that keep us from saying and doing things that would hurt our partners... I am so thankful that you have been honest in sharing your struggles with us. I'm sorry if we seem do seem to trigger you by being too pushy or demanding about recovery...
thanks for putting up with us.

V.

_________________________
I was silent as a child, and silenced as a young woman; I am taking my lumps and bumps for being a big mouth, now, but usually from those whose opinion I don't respect. - Sandra Cisneros

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#184907 - 10/05/07 02:09 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: violet]
Agape Girl Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 120
Loc: New Jersey, USA
I'M WITH HER........

I send a big thanks to you all, for helping us too...

always,
Kelly

_________________________
AGAPE'
means selfless love of one person for another
without sexual implications
(especially love that is spiritual in nature)

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#184942 - 10/05/07 03:26 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
ptsdwife Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/25/07
Posts: 45
Brokenhearted,

out of all the explanations that I haved read... Your's is the

closes to how I see my husband, we are apart now and have been

for the past 3 month ... he asked me for a divorsed but I have

not heard any more in the subject it's been 2 weeks ??? I think

his feeling guilty for making me go thru this waiting .. he's

confused and he really dosent know what he wants or feels, when

they say numb I will think thats what they are refering too...

epathy thats how I see him.


Now the weird thing to me its that his funtional at work and as

far as I know in all other parts of his life so the only afected

its me ???

Its this normal ????


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#185012 - 10/05/07 08:34 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: rcm]
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Indygal (it's a while since I've been on this part of the site, glad you're still here)- I've got the book, and had it for some time. I remember where I bought it and why. It was recommended on this site by others, and I spotted it in a local university town book store. I bought it sometime during a breakdown I had before I went to the police/court - I don't remember much of what it said, and may need to revisit it (though I'm not so sure what relevance it may have now that all of the hard work is over for me).

What started me on the road to recovery? Well I believe I have told you this before, or at least some of it!

I went to a stag do with some of my friends, where there were strippers on the stage. Late on in the night, I went to the toilet because I was absolutely bursting. When I got back, one of my friends said that they had made a collection for me.... I didn't hear anything else that was said, as I just totally freaked out and left the building. I assumed that I the collection was so that I could get on stage and 'perform' with the strippers (you hear these stories) and there was no way I could do that in public. The friend that told me about the collection followed me outside, because he just didn;t understand what was wrong. I then told him about being abused as a kid, and how the whole idea of performing in public just brought it all up again far too quickly. He was shocked, and then explained that the collection was just so I could have my photograph taken with 2 of the strippers - there was no performance expected. It was a negative/positive experience, because had it never happened, I would still be living in the dark ages of being the only person other than the perv that knew I had been abused.

Problem was, as my friend later said, they felt responsible for lifting the lid off Pandora's Box - once it was off, there was no going back. It was at that point about 32/33 years after I had been abused.

It went another couple of years after that and I thought I was dealing with it OK. It got to Christmas 2003, and I was shopping in Leeds. I got to the point where I only had one present left to buy. It was for my nephew & I could not think of what to buy, nor did I see anything, but I wasn;t even really thinking of what to buy, I just had this strange block in my head. It just suddenly hit me, that my nephew was around the age that I was when abused. It hit me bigstyle, that my nephew lived closer to the perv than I did when he got his hands on me. I then woke up to the fact that it could all happen again and I wondered who else he might have had his hands on. I went into total meltdown! Falling into the pit - that's what got me onto the road to recovery! There was only one other place left to go, and I'm too resilient to take that path!

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#185089 - 10/06/07 04:02 AM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: RICK57]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: RICK57
What started me on the road to recovery? Well I believe I have told you this before, or at least some of it!

I went to a stag do with some of my friends, where there were strippers on the stage. Late on in the night, I went to the toilet because I was absolutely bursting. When I got back, one of my friends said that they had made a collection for me.... I didn't hear anything else that was said, as I just totally freaked out and left the building. I assumed that I the collection was so that I could get on stage and 'perform' with the strippers (you hear these stories) and there was no way I could do that in public. The friend that told me about the collection followed me outside, because he just didn;t understand what was wrong. I then told him about being abused as a kid, and how the whole idea of performing in public just brought it all up again far too quickly. He was shocked, and then explained that the collection was just so I could have my photograph taken with 2 of the strippers - there was no performance expected. It was a negative/positive experience, because had it never happened, I would still be living in the dark ages of being the only person other than the perv that knew I had been abused.

Problem was, as my friend later said, they felt responsible for lifting the lid off Pandora's Box - once it was off, there was no going back. It was at that point about 32/33 years after I had been abused.

It went another couple of years after that and I thought I was dealing with it OK. It got to Christmas 2003, and I was shopping in Leeds. I got to the point where I only had one present left to buy. It was for my nephew & I could not think of what to buy, nor did I see anything, but I wasn;t even really thinking of what to buy, I just had this strange block in my head. It just suddenly hit me, that my nephew was around the age that I was when abused. It hit me bigstyle, that my nephew lived closer to the perv than I did when he got his hands on me. I then woke up to the fact that it could all happen again and I wondered who else he might have had his hands on. I went into total meltdown! Falling into the pit - that's what got me onto the road to recovery! There was only one other place left to go, and I'm too resilient to take that path!



oh rick !!!!!!!! no, i've never read this part of your story before, only after you went to court and all and what happened when you were a child, not this part - it's left me in tears, i can only imagine how it was for you, as well as others.

there is a line, a divide, it seems, between the past life of denial, or lost memories, trauma; then the phase of recovery and the new experiences one will have as one starts to deal with the past and eventually heal.

i see my bf as on the same sort of precipice now, looking back and afraid to look forward, even more afraid to go forward. i told him gently i wouldn't let him fall - he said thank you - it's so precarious right now, i think a lot of you understand what i'm talking about.

as long as you are all here, i will do my best not to let him fall.

indy








_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#185092 - 10/06/07 04:24 AM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: RICK57]
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
ptsdwife - you say that it's weird to you that your husband is functional at work.


THIS MAY TRIGGER

It's not weird to me, as I fully understand that. I was also functional at work until I had the breakdown I mentioned above. After the breakdown I became functional again, despite the fact that I was still cracking up inside, wanting to do something about the past, because I could no longer leave it behind, it wouldn't let me once the lid was off. Work kept me busy, and so distracted me from thinking about the past - I would only think about it 50% of the time when at work. At home, it was just none stop despite what other distractions there were.

I made it to work on the Monday after I'd been Christmas shopping, but I felt like hell inside. I was barely functioning (was on early shift & I actually run a department). I was just like a robot going through the motions, but robots don't feel hurt. By the Wednesday I was really struggling to reach the end of the shift, barely functioning. I felt that everyone was looking at me and talking about me because they could clearly see that something was badly wrong (nobody actually realised until afterwards). I was struggling to ship product to the customer, and at the time there were a lot of Engineers in the department resolving equipment problems that we had. The perv was 32 when he abused me. Most of our Engineers were around that age at the time. Gradually over about 2 hours, their voices started changing and all melded into one - it was the pervs. I just to say made it to the end of the shift, but I was absolutely petrified. I remember going to the toilet and looking at my eyes in the mirror - my pupils were so large, they were practically bordering the whites of my eyes.

I went to the Doctors immediately after work and told him I thought I was going mad. He asked why I thought that, and somehow I just told him. He offered to get me councelling. I went back into my car and heard a loud banshee sound. I looked around to see where it was coming from and then realised it was me. It was just years of pure anquish being released properly for the first time. After that, I managed to contact my Manager and met her in a side room at work, where I broke down again. Many people think she is a hard faced bitch (she just doesn't like lazy people). She arranged immediate councelling, and that was the turning point.

To cut a long story short, I eventually went to the police and court, achieving a conviction in March of last year.

It was a long hard road, and for about 3 and a half years, I functioned at work. This was the time that it took me to build up courage to speak to the police, and the 17 months that it took from making my statement to the final day in court. I very nearly lost the ability to socialise during that time, and still have problems doing so. Luckily my friends have never given up on me. Recently I became a godfather for the 4th time (oldest is 25, youngest is 4 and a half months). The fact that I was asked to be Godfather is the best signal that I've had in recent years, that I'm finally getting there.

We were cheated out of the most precious thing anyone can have - childhood. That makes it very difficult for us to relate to other adults. Part of me is now 50 years old, but there is another part of me that is forever 12 years old. That part of me will forever treat all adults with suspicion, even if there is no real reason to do so! If someone new is talking to me, they see someone who doesn't look bad for their age (still have all of my own teeth and hair, with only about six grey hairs that are visible). They will never know if I am in 12 year old mode, regarding them with suspicion, wondering what they want from me.

I used what energy I had for work, because if I didn't, then I could have lost my house as well as my mind!

I more than function now, and know the warning signs if I start slipping. Drinking too much coffe, not eating the right things and trying to do everyone else's job on top of my own is the best way to send myself into regression, so I try not to do that!

Hope this helps in some way, and apologies if it was too graphic.

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#185099 - 10/06/07 07:32 AM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: RICK57]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Rik,

Yeah, I can relate to a lot of it. I had a nephew who not only lived close to my perp (my mom), but he was being actively groomed by her.

Your story was very inspiring, Rik. Thank you for sharing it.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#185334 - 10/06/07 08:28 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: BJK]
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Indy - sorry if my post upset you, it looks as though we were typing at the same time. I sometimes feel as though my posts are too graphic, but if I don't say how it was/is, I don't know how people can possibly understand. I feel that if I state how things really are/were, then it may encourage others to speak up just the same. I have recent evidence that indicates this does happen.

What I'd say to someone who is not a survivor themselves, but who is trying to support someone that is (I speak from my own perspective). Imagine if you once lived in a world that was magical, and that you only ever experienced good things. You didn't even know what it was to hurt, because everyone loved and protected you, so hurt and pain was not in your vocabulary. Your life experiences were so good, that you trusted everyone, because you did not understand what it meant not to trust. It was a bit like living in a land of milk and honey... I think that was a place called Nirvana. To those of you that like rock music, I can equate it to being Kurt Cobain (my opinion, so any lawyers that find fault with this, come after me, not MS). ON the outside it appears that everything could not be better, then life just does your head in.

Life (as above) means being abused by someone that pretends to be your best friend ever. Being groomed with treats into a situation that you just do not understand, and that you will try to comprehend for the rest of your life. It might mean being violently attacked by someone you totally trusted, being pinned to the floor and used (not my experience, but I know it is the experience of others). So we men here have either been subjected to grooming and abuse, or violent physical attacks (sometimes both). When someone you trust does this, it plays havock with your ability to trust. Yes we may think that you are the best person we ever met, but I personally just wait for people to let me down. I thought for many years that everyone would let me down eventually, so why did I even bother putting myself into situations where I might start to like / get attached to people, if I knew they would eventually let me down.

It's because in the back of my mind, I always had hope! Sorry if I'm rambling (it feels like I am).

Bryan - I think you said almost as much in a couple of sentences as I did in all that text.

Best wishes ...Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#190574 - 11/09/07 08:14 AM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: GWsurvives]
Gerald2007 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Southeastern US
Originally Posted By: GWsurvives
Indy.. my recovery started after my second wife left me. I went to a "marriage counselor" to try and convinvr my wife to give me another chance. After seking to him for an hour, and my wife speaking to hi for hour (seperatly).. I went back to see him.. He asked me flat ou: "Is there any abuse in your past?". I thought he was talking about in my marriage... After a few minutes.. he rephrased the question... "was there any abuse in 'your' childhood?". THAT floored me.. When I said I yes, and explained, he asked if I had therapy for it. WTF?? that was 30 years ago. He suggested that I get therapy, or at the very least, read Lew's book. When I sobered up... I read Lew's book.. when I sobered up again... I asked him to recommend a therapist... that was over a year ago... I am growing.. I am learning..... I am HEALING!!!!



GW,
Could you post or PM me with the name of your T? Is s/he dealing direectly with the issues of CSA?

Also, I am getting to the point where I am considering getting a group of Atlanta area guys together for a support group.

Gerald

_________________________
Alumnus: Weekend of Recovery - Dahlonega, May 2008 and May 2009
We are bound together by the pain of the past and our hopes for the future.

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#190629 - 11/09/07 04:38 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: Gerald2007]
thesun3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/06/07
Posts: 49
Hello All:
Going to see a kind and understanding therapist led me to my recovery. I had gone to her because of my dependency on porn.
Many think that porn is not a big deal...but it was taking over my mind and soul. She just asked me point blank... "were you ever sexually abused as a child?" I was stunned. My eyes and throat went dry. How did she know my terrible history? I was seduced with porn, unfortunately it became a dependency...a means to dull the reality of my pain.
I am also seeing a male therapist to discuss and learn how my abuse and porn have linked to chain me to a roller coaster of shame and despair.
The book by Mic Hunter has been my favorite so far, although,Victims No Longer is a good read too.
This site is fantastic and I am proud to be a member of it.

_________________________
In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.
Camus

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#190754 - 11/10/07 10:34 AM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: RICK57]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
Originally Posted By: RICK57
Life (as above) means being abused by someone that pretends to be your best friend ever. Being groomed with treats into a situation that you just do not understand, and that you will try to comprehend for the rest of your life. It might mean being violently attacked by someone you totally trusted, being pinned to the floor and used (not my experience, but I know it is the experience of others). So we men here have either been subjected to grooming and abuse, or violent physical attacks (sometimes both). When someone you trust does this, it plays havock with your ability to trust. Yes we may think that you are the best person we ever met, but I personally just wait for people to let me down. I thought for many years that everyone would let me down eventually, so why did I even bother putting myself into situations where I might start to like / get attached to people, if I knew they would eventually let me down.


Rik,

i'm sorry i never responded to your post on this thread - looking back i think i just didn't know what to say - you opened up so much and shared something so personal it was overwhelming - but in a good way - that is, i know i'm not the only one who's learned from what you wrote, as well as just felt so much of your pain and hurt also.

what's interesting is how i, too, have trust issues for many reasons, but not csa. i, too, used to wait for people to disappoint me but then eventually as i grew older i realized i could also disappoint others as well.

i still prefer giving people the benefit of the doubt most of the time but if someone does disappoint me i try and ask myself if i'm holding unrealistic expectations of that person or the circumstances.

i think as children we DO imagine the world in such a way, as we imagine people, not to necessarily have bad things, or events, or actions in it. when bad things happen, especially traumatic events, it can crush a child's vision all too hard and fast, as opposed to allowing a child to gradually adjust to the fact the world is not all roses, i.e., our parents (and others) are people too.

no, i can't imagine what you went thru, as i can't imagine what any survivor of csa went thru, it is just so horrific for a nonsurvivor to grasp; maybe someday i won't shake my head about it but i doubt it.

i think you are a person of incredibly courage and strength. i was doing some research today and came across this quote:

Quote:
Damaged people are dangerous. They know they can survive. ~Josephine Hart


i hope no one takes offense at the use of the word "damaged" because i hesitated to share this for just that reason. but when people like you, Rik, who stand up and face your abuser, wow, that just makes you THE MAN totally - you know?

just don't think of the word "damaged" in a bad way, just means "hurt" is all, i think, ok?

to the other survivors who also posted, your words are also special, please don't think they aren't - every experience shared is a ray of hope for us fnf who are trying so hard to understand.

all the best,
indy



_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#243584 - 08/09/08 08:16 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
indygal Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/06
Posts: 439
I'm bumping this because the question has been raised again and thought there were some good responses in this thread.

all the best,
indy

_________________________
my avatar is one of the Battle Angel characters, fighting the good fight.

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#243624 - 08/09/08 10:45 PM Re: question mostly for survivors [Re: indygal]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Good thread to read through, thanks indy. As for me, my fiancee leaving me, combined w/ getting laid off @ around the same time, seemed to be just the right combination of stress + the passage of time to crack the "what abuse?" shell i had built so carefully for so long, and drove me to seek out MS- i've never read either of the books, but i'm sure i will at some point. At this point, i'm having to try to deal w/ the practical problems created by events since then while trying not to take the focus off of my recovery; i'm still trying to hash everything out, basically. BTW, i've always loved your avatar/sig. Along with many other posters in F&F, it helps me remember that it's possible for someone to be sane, and still care about a frustrating mess like me.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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