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#184031 - 10/02/07 10:14 AM Interesting to me
VN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
An interesting question that come from an email with a friend. She had seen some movie, and I guess it was about someone who get revenge for something done wrong to them or their family. And she put in the email something about whether or not revenge is connection with 'ego'.

I thought that is interesting. I think perhaps it could be. I wonder, why it is that someone can have something terrible happen to them, and their thinking do not go to 'getting revenge' but more into other directions, like to heal, or to feel depressed, or other emotions. Even to anger. I think it is difference, to feel anger, or to want revenge. One do not necessary include the other.

Any damage to us, or to someone we love, it is of course personal, because it happen to us. So what is it, that make it different, to where someone will seek revenge? Perhaps it is a difference in how healthy, or how works, their ego. How what was done to them, how it effect them more then physically and emotionaly, but their like, their soul. Their most inside integrity. Their ego?

It make me wonder, if perhaps in some way, forgiveness is relation to ego also. Not in 'bad' way. There is much good health in a good ego. But is perhaps sometime what we do that it is good, it is part because it make us feel good also, about ourself, and so then give good food to the ego?

I can not recall who it is, someone of philosophy, who say something of how man will not do anything that is not somehow pleasing to hiself. That there is not unselfish acts because, even if an act is very good and generous, if it gives good feelings to the person who do it, then there is something selfish of it. It do not make it not good, and not generous and not kind thing to do. But it is not 'selfless'.

I was curious of what other people think on these two things, the revenge and the forgiveness, relation to the ego. Are they the same argument, or different ones, or are those actions not relation to 'ego' at all?

VN


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#184047 - 10/02/07 10:44 AM Re: Interesting to me [Re: VN]
testingWaters Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
VN

Great post.

This is something I have worked on so, so much and still feel totally confused about. Ego is a fact of life. We all have one. I think most Buddhists would say that hope and fear are two sides of the same coin, with each making us suffer. I tend to think that both are driven by the ego and so both are equally dangerous, though inevitable.

For me revenge and forgiveness are almost the same thing -- both are ways to take control or take action or feel like one is *doing something*. So either one can end up being an expression of ego. But then either one can result in real connection between living beings, so even egotistical actions may sometimes lead to connection with others.

And even if there are no unselfish acts ultimately there really is no 'self' either if every living thing is connected.

When I struggle with this stuff I always think of the same thing: Buddhists believe every living thing was once a mother to someone else and once an infant completely dependent on its mother. Somehow I always feel more grounded when I remember this. Maybe just being committed to seeing as clearly as possible is what matters?

TW


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#184175 - 10/02/07 06:01 PM Re: Interesting to me [Re: testingWaters]
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Visha,

I have to tell you, Sport...This is deep. It will take me a while to think this out, but when I do, I will let you know.

The more I read, the more I am convinced I need to read the writing of the Buddhists. You make me think, and as you know, that is not one of my finer quatlities.


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#184283 - 10/03/07 05:49 AM Re: Interesting to me [Re: FLRich]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
VN,

this is rather confusing to me. I do think, the philosopher was right, in that we do things that bring us pleasure. What someone else maybe think of it is bad, do not mean that for us, for what we need right then, it is not good for us. I do not like to think I am selfish. But I do agree, that when to do something for others give back to yourself, it is not 'self less'. I just do not know it is 'selfish' either though.

The issue of ego with both revenge and forgiveness, I will have to think on that more. It is a very interesting question that your friend give to you. Thank you to share it here.

Andrei


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#184449 - 10/03/07 04:15 PM Re: Interesting to me [Re: ak]
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Visha,

Thought about it! It seems like a win/win situation no matter what you call it, and I see nothing wrong with that.


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