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#187653 - 10/17/07 03:50 PM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: cbfull]
dgoods Offline
Guest

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 622
Loc: Richmond area
Sure i'll expand- I dunno my IQ or whatever, but I tested at 12th- or-above grade level in 5th grade "bubble tests", was temporarily in a "gifted" program until the acting-out ended that. Always using my intellect for the wrong things, how best to fool myself and others that i was fine, getting lost in detail, agonizing over trivialities, using my command of language and psychology to win arguments or power struggles, I guess it's been comparable to a state-of-the-art jet fighter being piloted by a monkey. I'm really just a monkey, but you can only see that from inside the cockpit. Make any sense?

"failed test"- i'm just speaking from my own experience, but it's almost like a tug-of-war at the start of the process. Let's say I meet someone that i'm attracted to as a person: male, female, str8, gay, whatever. It's like the boy inside me is still convinced that sexual availability is the only way to gain closeness, you know- "I'll do whatever you want if you like me" thinking. So I get all wound up, short of breath, etc. Immediately after, "inner parent" says, "OK, I'll let you peep your face out there for a second, but if they lick their lips when they see you, you're going back in the basement."
PS i'm not a multiple, just seemed the easiest analogy.
I hope this makes some kind of sense, thanks for reading.

_________________________
Give sorrow words: the grief that does not speak
Whispers the o'er-fraught heart and bids it break.

-William Shakespeare, Macbeth, Act IV, Sc. III

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#187763 - 10/18/07 09:13 AM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: dgoods]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
It seems we may have a few odd things in common. I was accepted into a "gifted" program (I don't think this is good word to use around young people, it confuses them) for my junior and senior year in high school. It seems that I perform better on tests when I don't care about the results, and they used test scores that were not part of any coursework to select the students. I was quite a boisterous and influential kid in that program, and I can't help but suspect that my rebellious nature contributed to the demise of that whole program a few years later. I'm probably giving myself too much credit by feeling guilty about it.

I am always lost in detail. I constantly agonize over trivialities as well, but I have learned to manage that a bit more efficiently or "choose my battles" over the years.

I try to win arguments and power struggles by creating logical twists and turns, which sounds like the same thing you are describing. Honestly I think it's just a fancy way of admitting to having a manipulative edge.


Originally Posted By: dgoods
...I guess it's been comparable to a state-of-the-art jet fighter being piloted by a monkey. I'm really just a monkey, but you can only see that from inside the cockpit. Make any sense?

I think I understand what you mean by that analogy, let me describe my own and maybe we can get a better understanding of each other. I am a bit of a large-ish guy (I enjoy working out and staying as lean as I can) at 6"1' and 210 pounds, and I have always described myself as feeling like a very small guy stuck inside a "big guy machine", and he's always overwhelmed trying to operate this huge thing. As a result I am pretty clumsy, always bumping into things and knocking things over. When I'm drunk I'm a walking disaster.

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#187795 - 10/18/07 01:00 PM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: Lazarus]
hisashley Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By: Lazarus
You know, guys, I agree with everything you have been talking about, but there is one possibility that you might be overlooking.

In my experience, when a str8 guy gets comfortable being friends with a gay guy, he will start to 'flirt' or pose in provocative ways, as a sort of tease. I know they don't intent to start up anything with me, and I know they aren't really intentionally tempting me, but it's kind of ego stroking on their part. Maybe they like the idea that they can turn me on. Maybe they get a rush from the power trip. Mostly (I think) they just like the flattery that my attention gives them. It's something you just don't get very often with women.

Just a possibility...

Lazarus




hmm I am just going to throw in my two cents worth here my fiancee is I am not sure what \:\( he has told me stories about when he used to sell cars and he met a guy he sold a car to and in a round about sort of way asked him a posing question " so I assume you are into girls " the guy replied yes but later called my fiancee and told him he was "open " to anything perhaps it is as Lazurus said about the flirting posing way the others act around each other .. I dont know if anything came from my fiancees encounter but it was just "put" out there more or less .Now that I think about it probly something did come about from it because he told me he had done some "things" I love him and it really makes no difference to me at times but occasssionally it does (jelousy perhaps ughhhhh ) but I agree with Lazurus and his opinion and I have also heard that str8 males have not so much as a phobia but more of a curiosity of being with another man , yet they are ashamed or unsure how to approach it . just my thoughts .. ~ Ashley ~

_________________________
I am my beloveds and he is mine ~

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#187804 - 10/18/07 01:44 PM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: hisashley]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: hisashley
...I have also heard that str8 males have not so much as a phobia but more of a curiosity of being with another man , yet they are ashamed or unsure how to approach it . just my thoughts .. ~ Ashley ~

I agree with you about this. It seems that some men are "taught" to be phobic, while other men realize that it doesn't really matter, and it has nothing to do with being "gay" or "str8". I think you will find most of the guys here agree that those labels are hurtful and a huge waste of time.

Sexuality is something that very few people can talk freely about, and it depends very strongly on who is asking. What I mean by that, is that there are some people with whom I can discuss sexuality quite comfortably, some who make me too nervous, and some who I just have no interest in discussing it with.

The "sexuality rules" seem to be changing at a very fast pace, and the change I see happening is definitely for the better, but that's just my opinion. It's like people are realizing that there are far, far too many rules and restrictions, and that there really doesn't need to be any rules at all, just the one's we decide for ourselves.

Most men have not been given a healthy opportunity to explore that side of their sexuality (yes, it exists in all males), and it tends to make them very nervous, clumsy and "unsure" as you state. Men get chemistry around each other and sometimes the chemistry can be sexual and even intense. I think it's sad that most of the time they are too scared, clumsy, uncomfortable, etc. to find a safe way to enjoy a whole different side of themselves. It's worse than mustering up the courage to talk to a girl you like for the first time because it's not a girl and you are both adults. There is the possibility that they can be getting the wrong idea and it could result in a disaster.

It think it's great that you can recognize that you felt a bit of jealousy at the idea of your fiancee being physical with another man. It's so refreshing that it wasn't fear, suspicion, or disgust.

Hope I am making sense.

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#187832 - 10/18/07 06:29 PM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: cbfull]
hisashley Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 8
[\quote]It think it's great that you can recognize that you felt a bit of jealousy at the idea of your fiancee being physical with another man. It's so refreshing that it wasn't fear, suspicion, or disgust.[\quote]


No I did not feel any fear disgust or suspicion although I was not liking the jelous feeling I am a jelous preson but that is a result of my former relationships and the abuse and rejection I delt with at the hands of my x . He messed around on me and to me infidelity is a crime .. when he told me of his problem he asked me if I was disgusted and I told him no in no way I am was I or could I be ..I love him just as he is and any thing short aside of healing would be changing the man I love , I know he loathes himself and it is manifested at times by him saying he is not worthy of me and I could do better these remarks hurt me to no end but I know it is his insecuritys I belive that cause him to say such as it is a rare thing .. te whole fact of the matter is he was abused by his father and has a distorted veiw of himself and the fact that his ex wife did the damage she inflicted has made him very insecure .. it is my prayer that healing would be for all who are open to embrace it and that there be no shame asscoiated with thosee who have distorted sense of who they are str8 ..Bi .. Gay.. whatever they are all human and I have yet to see anyone walk on water ..people attact those things they fear ..

_________________________
I am my beloveds and he is mine ~

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#187911 - 10/19/07 08:21 AM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: hisashley]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: hisashley
...I was not liking the jelous feeling I am a jelous preson but that is a result of my former relationships and the abuse and rejection I delt with at the hands of my x .

That is completely understandable. I hope it didn't sound like I was saying I am glad that you were feeling jealousy, it tends to be a very painful feeling. I am glad that it was not one or more of the unhealthier and darker feelings.

However, I don't know much about his situation but it sounds like he is at least in tune with himself enough to know that he sees himself spending his life with a woman, but unfortunatlely he has had his sexuality corrupted and exploited at a young age. He was introduced to "same-sex pleasure" in a most inappropriate way, and unfortunately the result tends to be life-long memories of intense arousal by another male, which is my theory of why men seek to act-out. The problem is that it is accompanied by an iceberg-sized arsenal of pain and emotional disruption that keeps ruining any possibility of a healthy understanding of his attractions.

To be honest, I have "helped" a few opposite-sex oriented males explore same-sex intimacy over the years, and I have yet to find an unhealthy side of those experiences. It's just too bad that men's same-sex attractions don't typically get the opportunity to be explored in a safe and healthy way, resulting in enhanced confidence rather than diminished or even a complete lack of confidence.


I hope my comments are not sounding too biased, but that is very difficult for me to avoid given my current situation.

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#187918 - 10/19/07 10:18 AM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: cbfull]
hisashley Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 8
Hi and no your opinons sound very healty and on point .. no the jelousy thing is just insecurity lashing out as well but I have decided a long time ago to crucify that in me on occcasion it tends to rear it head but I try and not react on those feelings and emotions and talk myself down more or less ..I have so enjoyed our discussion it is great to have a place where I can find out more a mans perspective on such matters and it seems as though discussing these issues takes the fear away ..

Yes he is in tune with his situation he doesnt have male encounters that I am aware of but he has looked at the porn on the net and I think he was trying to hide that because he did a recovery on our computer the only way I stummbled across it was that I had misplaced a link for a paper I was writting and had to go to history ..I did not mention it to him and as far as I know he doesnt know I know ..I know one time he mentioned that he was afraid I would turn on him and throw his problem up in his face and I belive that is what his ex -wife did she damaged him with words and such and I think that is a shame I love this man no matter what and I think it is terrible for someone to be abused as a child grow up still wounded and have to continue to be hurt by careless others .. The toungue is a terrible thing and full of poision .


What do you suppose is the cause for the "iceberg size " pain you mentioned do you think this is shame and confusion ?? I have read on here that many men when they "act -out " then kinda spiral into a dark place I am assuming the excitement from the initial " I need to I have to do this " is far stronger than the actual deed itself ??

You seem to be very intouch with your self and I hope I am not asking too many questions ..I greatly appreciate your time and honesty and I hope that your situation rights itself for you in everyway ..thanks so much again ..Ashley..

_________________________
I am my beloveds and he is mine ~

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#187932 - 10/19/07 12:23 PM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: hisashley]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: hisashley
...discussing these issues takes the fear away ..

That is quite true. It is equally important that you choose wisely who you discuss them with, or it can be a disaster. You have come to the right place.

Given your current situation, it seems like a wise decision not to tell him what you found in the browser history, it can only put a barrier up between you two because it is an invasion of his privacy, unless you believe he is actually going out to meet other fellas for physical contact. If he were doing that he could be putting both of you at risk and then it becomes 100% your right to know. It doesn't sound like he is in a place to safely explore this part of his sexuality yet, but if he can manage to keep it between just him and computer images (porn I guess), it should be okay. I don't know if it is wise or even possible to try and purge these desires altogher, they are just too powerful and the repeated failures would only push him down deeper.

The reason I call it 'iceberg size', is to represent how the top is the only part we actually see, while there is a giant mass that we cannot see. And yes, shame and confusion are just a couple of emotions involved in his pain.

My belief about the "spiraling" is very much related to some things I touched briefly in my previous post. Men who have never had a pleasurable and healthy same-sex experience do not have the memories and images to draw upon in their minds to allow them to realize that they can actually enjoy it, and perhaps enjoy it more than they even thought was possible (trust me on this one). When a boy is corrupted at a young age, their bodies respond sexually because they have not yet learned how to interpret, let alone control their physical response. As a result, they are confused by this feeling of intensity and pleasure and they often (perhaps usually) go back for more. The terrible irony is that they have no idea how much they are being damaged, they are just far too young to understand.

As they grow older, they remember the intense arousal and physical sensations, but they usually aren't even aware of the fact that there was a tremendous amount of guilt, shame, disgust, denigration, anger, and so on that is going to accompany the memory, so they try to repress it. As we become adults, the responsibility to recognize what is healthy and what is unhealthy becomes too great. They want he physical intensity, but it cannot yet be separated from the dark part, they coexist in the memory.

There a many ways for a man to get past this, and it is up to him only to decide if that is even an option. Coming here is probably the best first step for anyone. Another way (and this one was actually a big help for me) is to form a bond with another man he feels chemistry with, but it must be a man who has likely not been abused himself. What I'm getting at is that it is possible for a man to relearn how to have a safe and healthy physical relationship with another man, as long as the other guy is experienced, patient, and of course a turn on for the misguided man. This is all very important because the interaction must be carefully kept clear of anything that could re-victimize. There aren't many men out there willing to do all of that, but they do exist. I must mention however that I would never, never recommend that anyone actively seek this as a means to recovery, but it does have a certain very intriguing logic to it that most would not even consider. I only mention it because it unknowingly allowed me to realize that it is possible to have a completely positive sexual experience with another guy. I hung on to that positive memory and allowed it be my model for future same-sex endevors. I no longer only had the bad memories to draw on.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the other guys here have a reaction to what I've just said, but I'm just being completely honest, and believe me I've thought about it a lot. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a very reasonable and effective way to deal with the trauma.

I'm afraid that it may be inappropriate for me to discuss the details of my very positive sexual experience, but if you think it will help I can give you a summary, perhaps a PM if you want.

I'm glad you posted, and I'm really enjoying our chat! Your open-mindedness has allowed me to see some things in a very different way, and even put some thoughts into words that I have never been able to before. Thanks!

Craig

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#187948 - 10/19/07 06:13 PM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: cbfull]
hisashley Offline
New Here

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 8
I am glad I posted as well I am just realy beside myself at times I love him and I only want him to be true to himself I dont think it is by accident I am with him nor do I think it is by accident that I stummbled across this website ..I have a very strong prophetic gift in that I have dreams that come true and or reveal things that are going on I dont like it but I do have it and it has shown me things I have found out were true .. three times in our relationship has this happened and he is well aware of it he insist that I am his only desire I wonder who he is trying to convince me or him sometimes ~ I feel a little confused today he is out of town for a 3 day weekend so I am a little on the wondering side (dear God I hate this ) I want so much for a healthy happy relationship and I pray I can remain focused on the fact that he has always suffered and he is like me just a broken vessel perhaps I can find strength to indeed belive that Love covers a multitude of Sin ~ And I like your quote for truly guilt and shame have never done us any good at all ! have a great weekend ~ Ashley ~

_________________________
I am my beloveds and he is mine ~

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#187954 - 10/19/07 07:31 PM Re: Feeling triggered and I don't like it - CAUTION [Re: hisashley]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Have a great weekend too!

I can't help but notice that your tone seems to be moving towards one that is experiencing some repressed intensity, which is just how afraid you really are about the feelings of jealousy. Are your instincts telling you something that you don't like? If so, are you covering them up with "logical interpretaions" to help keep your calm? Perhaps I understood it wrong, but it almost sounded like you expressing a bit of desperation about your fears concerning what he might be doing, but you are too afraid to ask or even know.

Am I picking up on you correctly, or am I totally misinterpreting your words (we don't know each other at all)? I have a terrible habit of "reading between the lines", sometimes it pays off, sometimes it does nothing but make me miserable. I hope I am not picking at "scabs" in your situation but I can't help but think that I might be able to understand what you are trying to say, but haven't quite spelled it out.

If this is way off or just sounds goofy I apologize. I got a rotten performance appraisal that I didn't deserve today and I really let my boss hear it all. I told him that I think he is not taking responsibility as my manager, he is making examples to justify giving me a bad score, and there are incinsistencies and loops in his logic which suggest that he is lying to me... so on and so forth... my point being I came home and made myself a big fat vodka martini made with basil infused vodka, and garnished with a feta cheese stuffed olive... YUM! I passed out shortly after I drank it so I am a little bit drunk still as I type all of this .

Take care

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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