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#183807 - 10/01/07 05:39 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: kellygtx]
beccy Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/06
Posts: 449
Loc: england
Thankyou too Kelly:)


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#183809 - 10/01/07 05:48 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: beccy]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


Kelly,

I suspect that as long as you and your wife are in therapy together that sexuality will eventually be brought up.

But I'd suspect that your therapist assumes to a large degree that sexuality per se isn't really what's at issue.

Take care,
Katie


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#184059 - 10/02/07 11:11 AM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Katie -

We are not currently seeing a therapist. We went thru the one week intensive and they said it was up to us if we wanted to continue. We are taking a break. We have both decided - that for us therapy 100% of the time week after week is not what we are looking for - help yes, but we have to live our lives. Plus we live over an hour away from any therapist and have five kids.



Edited by kellygtx (10/02/07 11:12 AM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#184107 - 10/02/07 01:56 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: kellygtx]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


Five kids -- probably makes acting out with men a bit difficult \:\)

Rob and I are both seeing the same therapist, though seperately, not together. Mostly because I've been an emotional looney case -- for which I blaim Rob completely -- if it wasn't for him I'd be the most healthy person alive, really nearly perfect. The therapist keeps trying to get me to see that I'm bringing my own crap into all this. No, it's all Rob's fault. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure WWI would never have happened if Rob hadn't done something.... Then there's that whole WWII thing. It's a dominoe effect.

Seriously Kelly, it seems to me that most men who have anonymous sex with men yet love their wives are suffering more from splitting/dissociation than dealing with sexual orientation issues per se. Of course there's the issue of being capable of finding sexual satisfaction of a sort with the same sex, but most women aknowledge that they could have sex with a woman, and most men do as well who spend a lot of time in psychanalysis. I always thought I COULD -- and probably in my youth I could have. And even now maybe I COULD under certain circumstances.

Anyway, I just read a pretty good article on schizoid withdrawel. Considering that you've had a problem with cutting and it seems that acting out with men is primarily (even if not exclusively) related to the same psychic stuff (and it seems that way to me) it might be good to read some stuff on this. It seems to explain a lot of what Rob has expressed feeling.

As far as the sexual orientation stuff -- if your wife can move forward, and it seems that she is, then it probably is a good idea to take this in baby steps, especially since you yourself are still trying to sort out your feelings.

I tried ot figure out how to send the link to the article, I'll keep trying when I have the time. It's pretty good.

Take care of all those young ones,
Katie


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#184111 - 10/02/07 02:06 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Katie -

Holy Cow - I can still laugh, just amazing. Come to think of it, I would be nearly perfect too if it was not for Rob! LOL - sorry, I could not resist.

The splitting / disassociation is a big problem for me. I can so easily check out and when I did act out it was in a fog. And then I would feel so emotional about that I would cut myself - and I had to see the blood on my legs, and I felt better. And then feeling better I would have to make myself feel worse, because what right do I have to feel good, so I would act out again, and cut again. What the hell!

We are moving forward, and the fact that we are intimate physically with each other is huge. I thank the therapist who told us it was very important to celebrate our love physically and not to use it to punish each other. She was so right. So we are taking baby steps...very small, steady baby steps.

Thank you -

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#184124 - 10/02/07 03:19 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: kellygtx]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


Here's the title of the article, just google it:

Schizoid Processes: Working with the Defenses of the Withdrawn Child Ego State.

I like this article a lot cuz it puts things in very humanistic terms.

And while it merely mentions addictions and self-harm behaviors, others find that those with addictions and self-harm behaviors often (if not necessarily) go along with schizoid withdrawel.

Take care,
Katie


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#184125 - 10/02/07 03:22 PM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


P.S.

While this article's a bit "sketchy", I think it puts a lot in a little space, if only in outline.

K.


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#184358 - 10/03/07 10:41 AM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303


The critics of post-modernism claim that we're in a schizoid cultural phase.

Some therapists believe that schizoid processes are the "illness" of today -- just as hysteria was the illness of Freud's day and Narcissism the illness of the post-war years.

The cultural critics point to things like: transitory career placement, t.v. (flip the switch, turn the channel, the remote control), the ever-increasing sexualization of human relationships, mind-body splitting, general up-rootedness, divorce, etc.... It's pretty interesting to read this sort of cultural criticism from those who identify with the far left politically as opposed to the more vocal/seen conservative right. While there's a lot of overlap in their critiques, they both begin and end in rather different places.

Anyway, I suspect that the emphasis on attachment theory, relational psycotherapy and the like (and which personally makes a lot of sense to me) is what it is as a corrective to the inward turn that began in the Renaissance and has brought us to the post-modern schizoid personality/and or processes -- not just on an individal level, but culturally as well.

Oh well, just some rambling thoughts.

K.


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#184368 - 10/03/07 11:14 AM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: Kathryn]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
"He saw schizoid personality at the disorder end and avoidant personality at the style end (p. 11) of this continuum."

“neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family –“
That's me - I am only emotionally interactive with my wife.
“almost always chooses solitary activities – “
Me again, I love to be alone“has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person”
Physical intimacy with my wife is difficult, when acting out it was compulsive, but again no fun or part of a sharing experience
“takes pleasure in few, if any, activities”
And again, guilty as charged
“lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives”
Zip here“appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others”
I am different here – I don’t like criticism, but I hate, I mean really loathe praise“shows emotional coldness”
Stone cold outside, but very emotional inside

“Schizoid personalities are often introverted and live primarily in an internal world. They may experience themselves as lonely, which may be felt as a longing for contact and love. In contrast to this longing, a common feature is terror of destroying others and of being destroyed by others. Often these people may appear outwardly contactful but are, in fact, emotionally withdrawn. Overall, there is a sense of futility and emptiness and a lack of integration.”

Wow – that is all I can say. This paper was a real slap in the face!! These are exactly the feeling I have. I live in an internal world and that is very difficult for me and for those living in an ‘outside world’. And that phrase ‘…a common feature is terror of destroying others and of being destroyed by others.’ That is so TRUE, SPOT ON. My acting out (and cutting for that matter) is not about sexuality or pleasure or anything like that, it is about my fear of destruction and feeling like I have to face that imaginary dragon, and if the dragon is not there I have to create one. What the hell??




Edited by kellygtx (10/03/07 11:15 AM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

Top
#184370 - 10/03/07 11:22 AM Re: How to Talk About Sexuality [Re: kellygtx]
Kathryn Offline
Guest

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 303



The only thing that you quoted from the article that I sort of disagree with is the part about "neither desires nor enjoys close relationships".

Frankly, I didn't even catch that part of this article -- why? Because most people from a psychanalytic background disagree with this and rather believe that there's a very strong desire to connect, but that defenses have been built up out of fear of destruction to do so.

I really feel this way about Rob -- just feel it.

And I also get this feeling from you, otherwise I doubt you'd be participating on this board -- and expressing all the romantic ideals that you express.

K.


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