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#183615 - 09/30/07 07:24 PM guilt and responsibilty
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
i have so much guilt. how do you get rid of it? like for example..

okay so i basically raped other guys when i was under control of mark. it was my job to break them in. i have an enormous amount of guilt over that. but people can agrue that its not my fault and that mark brainwashed me and had control over me.

but then fast forward to the years after mark. i was selling myself and not using condoms proabbly spreading hiv to whoever i slept with. again.. guilt. but this time, its my fault right? no one is going to argue that its because mark fucked me over on this one because it was my repsonibility.

so why are these different? why should i be responsible for one and not the other? i have guilt for both and i dont know why i shouldnt be responsible for waht i did to the other guys when i was younger. when does it change from saying it was because of abuse to using abuse to shift blame to avoid taking responsibilty for your actions?


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#183616 - 09/30/07 07:31 PM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: Jarrad]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
jarrad --

man i am so sorry about these experiences.

you have always struck me here as the type to be *too* hard on yourself, not the type to shift or avoid blame. trust that in yourself.

you are here right now posting about your feelings of guilt.

saying anyting was "because of abuse" would be crazy. but saying you are a human being and you felt threatened (maybe) or out of control or whatever and so you were unable to be as good to others as you wanted, in my experience at least, that would be being compassionate with yourself.

love, tw


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#183623 - 09/30/07 07:54 PM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: testingWaters]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
you see them as seperate situtations ,i see them as a continuation of what that sick fucker did to you originaly .and i dont think you were to blame for the original abuse ,no kid is ,all the rest is just a continuation of what he started. kinda like if you got sick with a cough when yu were little and nobody ever took you to the doctor to get help ,would it be your fault that you still had that cough as an adult? let me know if that made any sense at all will ya? at least now you question stuff thats gotta be progress right?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#183638 - 09/30/07 09:04 PM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: shadowkid]
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Jarrad,

I have to agree with Adam on this one. He said it much better than I could!


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#183641 - 09/30/07 09:15 PM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: shadowkid]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Hey, Jarrad. I think Adam is right... there was a precident set - a certain behavior that you learned from a very sick person. You learned to take control... that you were the one with the power with these other guys - brainwashing is a good term for it, because you were lead to believe that this was ok behavior. Once a behavior is learned and part of what is "right" in our lives, it is not something that just goes away... it sounds like you took that same attitude into your sexual behavior (and social behavior as well?).. that you were entitled to do the things you did.... that it was your right... only now, with hindsight and maturity and knowledge, you see those behaviors as inappropriate and feel guilt.

I have guilt about my abuse, because on some level, I wanted it to happen. I enjoyed aspects a lot, even looked forward to them.. but because I was younger and vulnerable and didn't have insight into what was happening, I believed I was an equal partner in the situation... that I somehow had control over what happened.... but I didn't. He was in control.. he groomed me, and he was well aware of my insecurities, need and he played them like a vituoso...

I think most of us have guilt, Jarrad... but that's why we're here, because, on some level, we realize that so much of this was out of our control... and we are here to try and make sense of our pasts and move forward into better futures.

Just my 2 cents.

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

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#183657 - 09/30/07 11:39 PM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: dannym]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
yeah i get they are related but i cant blame the later on abuse. i need to take responsibily for my actions. so shadow, im not sure i agree with you. reason being is there has to be a cut off point where your actions become your own and not a result of the abuse. i refuse to say that i can blame my actions on that.


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#183658 - 09/30/07 11:44 PM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: Jarrad]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
but jarrad what the difference? you feel bad about what *you* did. trying to understand why you would do something you feel bad about does NOT equate to shirking responsibility.


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#183672 - 10/01/07 01:17 AM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: testingWaters]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
the cut off point is when the abuse no longer has an effect on you ,i know im not there yet are you?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#183975 - 10/02/07 07:41 AM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: Jarrad]
ak Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
Originally Posted By: Jarrad
yeah i get they are related but i cant blame the later on abuse. i need to take responsibily for my actions. so shadow, im not sure i agree with you. reason being is there has to be a cut off point where your actions become your own and not a result of the abuse. i refuse to say that i can blame my actions on that.


This is exactly how I feel. I know that there is difference between something that is like 'explanation' of what we do and why, and 'making excuses'. But they both feel the same to me, within myself. With another person, I think I could see the difference between them both better and easier.

Andrei


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#184038 - 10/02/07 10:22 AM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: ak]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
ak, haha i think they are the same within me, and other people. i sometimes get so frustrated to who blame actions on abuse.


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#184045 - 10/02/07 10:32 AM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: Jarrad]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Jarrad -

You are not alone with those feelings. I was raped - but I cut and I acted out - no one made me do it. But I agree with Adam (Shadowkid - guess I have been around long enough that I can use names now - Is that a sign of healing or comfort?) with his great cough analogy. A sick child who is contagious can not be blamed for spreading a cough.

Put the blame where it belongs and move on. You can't change the past, but you can change (and have I persume or you would not be here) your response to the past. Put you energy where it will make a difference.



Edited by kellygtx (10/02/07 10:33 AM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#184053 - 10/02/07 10:55 AM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: kellygtx]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
Man, Jarrad, I really admire your dedication to taking responsibility for yourself.

I could list so many things here that I have done in my life that I regret and feel shame about too. I take responsibility for my role in those things.

But if I wasn't willing to acknowledge how feeling hurt, afraid and powerless contributed to those actions, I might still be doing them, and that would be fucking terrible.

I think Adam's cough analogy is too simple for me personally. Among other things, most of us here are not kids. Sort of reminds me of these new studies that show going to work when you have a cold is actually really irresponsible and that employers should *encourage* you to stay home from work in the interest of the larger group. A kid has no control over that usually but adults do.


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#184055 - 10/02/07 11:04 AM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: testingWaters]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
TW -

I agree to a point. Guilt and shame and remorse do have a place as we are adults and in control of our actions. But to look at those actions in isolation from the rest of our lives makes no sense. It does not mean we are not responsible for what we do or did not do, it just helps get perspective on our actions. I too feel guilt and shame - but I also understand what the root cause was and I can't look at one side and forgive myself with out doing the same for the other side.

Not sure if that makes any sense to anyone but me, but I keep swinging the bat.

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#184058 - 10/02/07 11:11 AM Re: guilt and responsibilty [Re: kellygtx]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
Kelly --

I had to read that twice but I really like what you said. Thanks

TW


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