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#182051 - 09/24/07 10:28 AM unanswered questions - trigger
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
how does someone do that, how does someone look at a little kid and think those thoughts? how big of a man does it take to threaten a kid, how many men does it take to fucking ruin someones life? how can a grown man be such a fucking coward and how can a father fuck his own son? what kind of sick fucking twisted pleasure does he get out of that? what kind of a person has to tie down a fucking 10 year old when he's three times his size and three times his weight? what kind of a parent hits their own kid until the bones in his face are broke until his teeth are broke until his fucking eyes are bleeding until he's choking on his own blood? how many times do you have to say "Im sorry" or hear "im sorry" or "i love you" or "this is for your own good" at what point do you want to throw up when he calls you "son"? how many times do you have to be raped before you just come to expect it to happen? before you start to enjoy it? how many times do you have to attempt suicide to get someones attention? how many times do you initate the attack to just get it over with? how tightly to do your arms have to be held behind your back before they snap like fucking twigs? how many times do you have to be punched in the stomach before ribs break? how long can you go without eating? breathing? how is a little kid supposed to know the difference between whats right and whats wrong when he does everything wrong? how does a father think teaching his son to associate pain and sex and love and hate is the right thing to do? how long can you take beatings and rape without crying? passing out? bleeding to death? begging for death? what makes a man talk another man into fucking his own son? how can anyone be so deaf and so blind as to just ignore the hurting little kid in front of him and not hear his cries and just go on about getting off anyway? how fucking perfect do i have to be to get him to love me? god i have a million more questions that i'll never get answers too, but i'll keep asking them anyways

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#182063 - 09/24/07 11:59 AM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: jessedawg]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jesse,

Maybe what you need to hear first here is that you are heard, that you are understood, that others find all this as sick and fucked up as you do. If so, you got it bro. We have all asked these questions or others like them.

Maybe this will sound almost too obvious to be worth saying, but the answer to your questions would all fall under the heading of "distorted thinking". Abusers justify what they do with all kinds of explanations, but all of them are false excuses, not real reasons. For example, they will trick, deceive, pressure and threaten a boy, and then when they get what they want they will say, "I only did what HE wanted."

I want to comment just for a moment on your closing thought:

Originally Posted By: jessedawg
god i have a million more questions that i'll never get answers too, but i'll keep asking them anyways


Yep, keep asking! This is what you should be doing. Whether you get answers or not, you are saying, "This is fucking me up big-time. Please help." Keep asking for the support you need. That's what all of us need to do.

As for the answers, Jesse, I don't want to be brutal, but no, you won't get the answers. None of us will. But think about this for a moment. Can you imagine asking, as you do:

Originally Posted By: jessedawg
how can a father fuck his own son?


and then someone comes up to you and gives you the answer? That is, can you imagine hearing an answer that makes you think, "Oh okay, now I get it", and you walk away satisfied?

What I'm getting at here is that we don't get answers because there are no answers out there, at least not the kind of answers we want and need. A therapist or researcher may be able to explain the process of thoughts that make the abuser think it's okay to do what he does, but at every step we would be shouting out that this is total crap and nonsense. And it is. Like I said, it all comes down not to real reasons that give a satisfying answer, but rather just to the abuser's "distorted thinking".

And maybe that's the good news, Jesse. There's not a single thing in the world that could possibly excuse what happened to you. All those things you talk about above? Not a single one of them leaves the slightest blame or shame on you.

I am so sorry to read all this, but at the same time I'm so proud of you for being able to talk about them. Just remember that you are talking about your father's guilt and shame, not yours.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#182073 - 09/24/07 12:54 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: roadrunner]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
thanks being heard and understood is a good thing, i keep saying it but a couple of months ago i never thought anyone would hear what im saying about this shit let alone really understand. i can do this because of this place, feels good to be a part of something even if that something sucks. youre right even if i got all the answers id never be happy or satisfied and i know asking why and looking for answers doesnt change that it happened. guess my biggest question is "why" i even have to ask these questions to begin with. i feel kind of selfish in a way, im not the only one who has been hurt by this shit, im not the only one in pain here but why me? theres millions of kids out there born into normal happy families who dont ever get touched with this kind of evil shit. so why me? is it selfish to ask that? does it make me an idiot because i cant just accept the fact that it just is what it is, that he's just sick? and why did he have to take it to such extremes? wasnt violating me in my own goddamn bed at night enough for him? i guess not, and there i go with the questions again lol. i know, i know, i've heard "it wasnt your fault" a thousand times since i been here but still i wonder what i ever did to make him hate me so much, was it just the fact that i was born?
i know, theres no real answers for any of this and its not me who should be ashamed, hes the one who should be ashamed. but he's not.

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#182079 - 09/24/07 01:18 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: jessedawg]
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11111
Loc: Denver, CO
Jesse,

I have no words for how he hurt you. It just grieves me to think that a father has hurt his own son in such ways.

Andy

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#182081 - 09/24/07 01:34 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: FormerTexan]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
all i ever wanted to do was make him happy, make him proud of me, make him love me, no matter how bad it got i never stopped trying to please him, no matter how bad he made me feel no matter how bad he hurt me, no matter how bad he scared me or humiliated me, i never stopped just trying to be his son, the kind of son that he wanted. i never once considered what i needed, it was all about him, all about his feelings and mine were just non existant, every time he punched my lights out i knew my feelings didnt matter, why bother getting angry when he doest give a shit about your feelings anyway? he just didnt care that the whole time he was destroying my world, my mind, my body and my life all i ever wanted was the kind of dad who i saw my friends with, ya know the kind on tv, the 'hey lets go fishing and lemme tell you about girls and lets watch the game together and im proud of you' kind of dad. but no, instead i got stuck with the kind who i'll never be able to do right by. why should i fucking care? i dont know. all i really know is theres nothing i can ever do that'll make him proud of me

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#182082 - 09/24/07 01:46 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: jessedawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: jessedawg
all i really know is theres nothing i can ever do that'll make him proud of me


that one says it all. i've wept over that thought for years. and no matter how angry i get, part of me STILL wants to have peace with him, to have him put his arm around my shoulder and say he's proud of me. or that i did something - ANYTHING - good.

i'm sorry you were hurt this way - and sorry you still suffer. but if it helps, i understand the ache.


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#182087 - 09/24/07 02:10 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: MarkK]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
in a way it helps but in a way it dont because i wish you didnt know how it felt, i wish nobody knew how it felt.

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#182088 - 09/24/07 02:12 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: jessedawg]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
i know.
i wish that too.
people say it helps to know we're not alone, but there are times i truly wish i was. nobody should have to feel this.

... yeah ...


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#182089 - 09/24/07 02:22 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: MarkK]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
yup, i agree

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#182090 - 09/24/07 02:32 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: MarkK]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
wow.jesse this thread is like a godsend to me. our experiences are very similar. you wrote some stuff here that i can't even say out loud yet and it really helped me to read it. how can a father fuck his own son? funny i ask that question alot and larry is right - can you imagine how fucking scary it would be if someone gave you an answer that "made sense"? i guess what i want to add is this - how does a father fuck his own son then LIE about it, claim it never happened and tell the rest of his family that his good, strong grown-up son is fucking confused about what happened? that it must have been someone else and that the son is "victimizing" him? i cannot believe i still hope that somewhere deep down inside my father is proud of me for having the balls to confront him. i tried so goddamn hard, even after i confronted him -- i told him to get therapy for the benefit of his goddamn family, told him i could forgive him, blah f*ing blah. that piece of shit still denies it. and what is so so so fucked up is that i actually thought that deep down he would want to come clean. that deep down he really does love me enough to be honest. so jd you're probably doing better than me, because at least you can talk about it. last night i felt like crap and literally took a thousand steps backwards posting that "dad says nothing happened." and signed my post "terrible person." reading you this morning feeling exactly what you feel makes me regret that. makes me wish i'd just cried instead of gone to bed shaking and fighting the urge to scream "get the fuck out of my bed". sorry for all the cursing everybody. if you feel anything like i feel abut your dad, i'm simply proud you're alive and here. right on. TW


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#182093 - 09/24/07 02:44 PM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: testingWaters]
jessedawg Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 345
Loc: New York
tw, i guess its good when something good comes out of something bad so even tho all that bullshit i wrote was digusting, if it helped you feel not so alone in this, then good, im glad.
hey, your father sucks and i cant believe you could try to forgive him, youre a way better man then him and youre a better man then me because i dont think i could ever forgive him or give him a chance to try and make things right. things have gone so terribly wrong between us theres just no way, he could try for the rest of his life and not be able to make up for anything he ever did to me. i dont know about denying it, last time i got close enough to the surface with my father he made it crystal clear to me that he not only enjoyed what he did but that he was right in doing it, to this day he still really believes that everything he done to me was for my own good and he was just trying to teach me to be strong, be a man. he also made it very clear that if given the chance he'd come after me again, not that he'd have a chance in hell at this point but it's always in the back of my mind, always watching my back ya know? about your post, just post whatevers on your mind, i wasnt able to do this a couple of months ago either and look at me know blah, blah, blah... the amount of bullshit thats coming out of me now is just endless, but no one here seems to mind and everyone seems to care so. if i can do it then you can too.

_________________________
Firefighters - your worst nightmare is just another day at the office.

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#182267 - 09/25/07 10:23 AM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: testingWaters]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jesse (and you too TW),

Originally Posted By: jessedawg
all i really know is theres nothing i can ever do that'll make him proud of me


That's a terrible truth to have to admit, but I think you are right to put it out there. It doesn't help us to cling to fantasies; we have to deal with the world the way it is and people the way they are - however bad that may be.

What you are talking about sucks bigtime, no doubt about it, but make sure you understand that the way your father thinks and the way he has treated you do NOT reflect on you. They tell us only about him.

Remember that all boys are special, important and worth loving, including you as a boy and you now as Jesse the young adult firefighter. If those at the center of your life won't or can't acknowledge that, it's their fault and has nothing to do with you. I know it's not an easy task, but try not to allow your father's fucked-up thinking and behavior to poison the way you yourself think and act. Sometimes what we have to do is just walk away and let go, not because we want to, but because that's the only way to deal with a totally toxic person.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#182270 - 09/25/07 10:30 AM Re: unanswered questions - trigger [Re: roadrunner]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
TW,

I've been really restricted in the time I have been able to get onto the site for the past week or so, so I haven't seen that other post you talk about. I will have a look at it tomorrow once I am back in the UK.

But I did want to speak to you personally and assure you that everything I am saying to Jesse applies to you as well. It took incredible strength for you to confront your father but at the same time open the possibility of reconciliation with him.

His decision to reject your offer doesn't surprise me, though. Abusers are bullies and cowards who pick on those smaller and weaker than they are. Now that you are no longer small or weak he can see he's in deep shit, so he takes the coward's way out - denying everything.

Just remember that this reflects on him, not you. You deserved to have your offer considered and appreciated, just as you deserved to haven a real and loving father. The fact that it hasn't worked out this way doesn't make you a terrible person and never will.

Don't worry about the cursing, bro. When you need to let it all hang out, this is the place to do it. ;\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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