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#178234 - 09/04/07 03:30 PM I am Bisexual...I Think (May Be Triggering)
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
I think (after much thought, anguish, and consternation) that I am bisexual...I think. Just writing and posting this gives me great anxiety. There I said it...I am bisexual...I think. I mean what if someone finds out? Can I live with someone knowing I am bisexual? And being bisexual means you don't belong to either the "Gay" community or the "Straight" community...I think.

I am attracted to both men and women...at least sexually...I think. Emotionally I am attracted to women. I myself am neither masucline or feminine. I am somewhere in limbo. I have always had better non-sexual relations with women.

Sexually I am very submissive to both men and women. I would rather please them then to be pleased myself. I don't like seeing my own body. I hate not having a shirt on. I have never penetrated a male (and have no desire to do so) and when I penetrate a female I feel totally inadequate. In some ways I am very feminine. In some ways I am masculine - but not "very". My wife and I have sex maybe once every ten days. I always initiate - but I think thats because she never does. I know how screwed up the CSA has made my sexuality - for example I hate my own pubic hair and have shaved it off - I believe in an attempt to be "child-like" again...I think. I am not sure what healthy sexuality is...Bisexual, Gay, or Straight...I think.

On previous posts I have said I was straight (I am married) but I really think that I am bisexual...I think. Does that change anything? No, just means that I have a sexual response to men...I think. I am still in a monogomous, committed, heterosexual relationship.

It would be so much easier if I could scream "I am Gay" or "I am Straight"...I think.




Edited by kellygtx (09/04/07 05:02 PM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#178248 - 09/04/07 05:09 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
TNuss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 202
Loc: Del-A-Ware???
Kelly,

You are okay, you're not alone! There are many of us that feek very similar to how you are feeling right now. You feel like you are going crazy, but really you're not.

I have been n this conflict for years and have had a really hard time being honest with myself. They are those here that too have been where you are at, they are wonderful help.

Good luck friend!

_________________________
All my best!!!

In harmony,
Troy
________________________________________________________
I hug myself daily until the day I find the embrace that completes me.

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#178298 - 09/04/07 10:16 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: TNuss]
trusty Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 167
Loc: Indiana, USA
Kelly,
I'm with you, too...in a 25 year marriage, but struggling. You're okay...you know that...you love your wife. Can you talk to her about it? Did she ask you why you shaved your pubes? PM me any time and I'll talk to you about how it's going for me...I think you know from your post on my thread...but I'm here if you wanna talk.

Much love,
REJ

_________________________
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#178353 - 09/05/07 09:44 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: trusty]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Trusty -

I really can not talk about this with her - she becomes very defensive and scared - and I can understand that. When I did shave she was pretty ambivilent about it - said it was ok. I don't do that anymore. Do you and your wife discuss this very delicate subject?

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#178355 - 09/05/07 09:50 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
are you sure you are bi and not gay?


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#178357 - 09/05/07 09:55 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Jarrad]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Jarrad -

I don't think I am gay. I have no emotional connection to guys and I feel I can only have emotional intimacy with a woman. I love my wife and can't imagine feeling like I do about her with a man. And it's not that I am afraid of being gay...I just don't think I am. Emotionally I am straight...and sexually I am just very confused. A therapist told me I am straight with a repetition compulsion. I can accept that and it does make sense - because I did not have an orgasm with men and just felt like I was on a drug - just very strange.

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#178516 - 09/05/07 10:49 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
Frog Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 291
Loc: Arizona
Kelly...

I'm at the same crossroads as you...someone here has got to
help w/ some answers or even questions we can ask ourselves

_________________________
A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment, "The one I feed the most."

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#178522 - 09/05/07 11:02 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Frog]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
i was just asking because if you dont feel adequate with a woman, and dont feel like you would want to penetrate a man.. there are other roles you can take sexually... which basically would be the bottom in a gay relationship. it was just a question.

and i know you love your wife. that is not a question at all. \:\)


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#178530 - 09/05/07 11:33 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Frog]
brokensoul Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 101
Kelly,Frog

I'm just trying to figure things out as well so please excuse me if I sound a bit dumb. But are you sure that you are not just acting out? If that is the case guy or bi would not apply. Confused would but not about sexual preference but why you are doing it. Which is where I'm at. But a while ago I was fighting the Bi-straight battle once I found out and understood acting out I could clearly see that I am straight but acting out was why I was confused.

Brokensoul.


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#178594 - 09/06/07 09:39 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: brokensoul]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Brokensoul -

I intended this post to be somewhat sarcastic and searching...hence the I Think all the time. I was definitly acting out...in fact a therapist told me I have a repetion compulsion or a contra phobia. Actually - I don't really have any desire to act out now - or to cut myself - which causes me as much shame and guilt. But I do wrestle with "did I like it" and if so what does that mean?

Jarrad - I understand what you were trying to point out and I appreciate your input.

Frog - I hear ya man!

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#178604 - 09/06/07 10:21 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
kelly,

wow! i could have written this almost verbatim. I acted out with men for the first 16-17 years of my marriage. i recently disclosed this to my wife. i only did because i didn't understand before why i was doing it. i see now that i was doing what i was taught to do by my dad...seek approval and my worth by having sex with men...

i have learned recently in therapy, that for me, it isn't just about sex and self worth, it is about a lack of intimacy, at a basic level. i have no clue what intimacy is, true intimacy. as a result of all the abandonment and sexual abuse i went through i have only been acting on a surficial level.

i feel even more alienated from 'normal' than i did before...i am working with my T on this and have hope that i can learn how to give and receive intimacy.

i too shave my pubes...i think there are two reasons i do it...my dad (perp) was very hairy and i hate the sight of body hair, and similar to you, i think i am trying to connect to a time when i was younger.

i understand what you are going through.


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#178921 - 09/07/07 10:08 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: buzz_key]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Buzz -

I wish it was not so...for the both of us. How are things with your wife? I disclosed about 6 months ago and went into a 6 week inpatient therapy and then she went with me on a one week intensive outpatient. We are getting along really good - but I am not sure yet were we are headed. We just want each other to be happy - however painful that may be. I love her - just so confused.

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#178960 - 09/07/07 12:25 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
well...my wife was the very first person i ever told about the abuse...i was 23, then we got married...but i just started dealing with the abuse in may of this year.

funny you should ask how thngs are...she had a blow up last night...tired of me being the center of everything...my abuse, my needs, my moods...but then says she wants, needs, me to continue in therapy...overall though, we are communicating better than we ever have in 23 years of marriage.

dude...i so relate to confused...i spend 90% of my time in that state.

i would like to keep in touch on this since it seems our circumstances are so similar...if that is agreeable to you...if not, i understand.


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#178963 - 09/07/07 12:33 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: buzz_key]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Buzz -

That would be great - I could use someone to connect with on a regular basis. We had a good night last night - actually had sex- and that left me feeling totally inadequate and unfulfilled.

Confused - it's my middle name.

You new friend -

_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#181554 - 09/21/07 10:46 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
sportinrucks Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 422
Loc: Louisiana
kin of jumped in here late I still dont know whether im bi or not.


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#181587 - 09/21/07 12:59 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: sportinrucks]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Guys,

Our mod Dewey2K has a great phrase that applies here - labels are for cans. I remember the first time he used that in connection with this straight/bi/gay issue, and it made me think a lot. What I came up with is basically this.

Gay and straight aren't opposites; they are two ends of the same string with a lot of other possibilities in between and all around. Although people still ask about this as if it's got to be one or the other, research has shown over and over again that very few people are absolutely one or the other.

Instead of that question I would ask these three:

1. Am I being totally honest with myself about my sexual feelings?
2. Am In being responsible and honest with my sexual partner(s)?
3. Do I feel sexually fulfilled?

If you can answer yes to all three questions then so far as I can see you should be just fine. You don't owe society an explanation or justification for what you feel and how you relate to others sexually, and choosing one label or another is more or less what that's all about.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#181597 - 09/21/07 01:29 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
Barney Offline


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Utah/Northern Arizon
My thoughts if you don't mind. I think it is too early to define yourself as gay, bi, or what ever. I think it best to keep working with the therapist and certainly get your wife involved in the process when appropriate. Let your work with the therapist help you decide who/what you are. I just think being molested does such a number on us we need lots of help to sort out who we are and what we are about.

Your in a discovery process so be patient and when the time comes, you will know what is right for you and your wife.

Take care,

B


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#181632 - 09/21/07 07:05 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Barney]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
For posterity I have always wanted to add this -- experimenting with other men does not make you gay or bisexual, no matter what anyone says. feeling like it stigmatizes you to do so is really destructive because, for me at least, how do you know if you like something til you try it? I am straight. I have had sex with men in the past because I was curious and I wanted to see what it was like. I was very surprised by how different it was to having sex with women and equally surprised by how little it turned me on. I am not in denial about this - I am speaking honestly about my experience and I really resent the particular mindset which says that bisexual experiences are a sign that you are gay and in denial. Look, fantasies, crushes, attractions to people of both sexes are normal (for me at least) but you might be surprised by how different it feels in real life. For better or for worse. Just remember -- no matter how you swing, as long as you are respectful of others, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I know its tough when you are in a marriage, but actually experimenting might be the most useful thing you could do before feeling like you have to make up your mind or figure it all out, etc.

Otherwise Larry's questions are great. Good luck, TW


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#181888 - 09/23/07 04:00 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: testingWaters]
mogigo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
Hate connecting with both sexes, hate being turned on by both sexes, hate wanting both sexes. Sure would be alot easier if I could just pick one. One guy on a BDSM site said "although labels are not necessary, they can go a long way when someone doesn't know what they're looking for". If I want carrots but don't ever know what's in the can because there is no label how am I ever going to find those carrots. How do I go on a dating site looking for someone when I'm not sure what section I should post in.

Just hard to find what I'm looking for when it's not defined.

Stay strong
Mike

_________________________
Thriving

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#182072 - 09/24/07 12:51 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Think (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
jakemed Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 37
I have always felt I was bisexual, most of my identity is surrounded by that fact. It took me years to come out and be comfortable with it, accept in...and my wife of many years has finally accepted it too. We are monogamous. We have a major intimate and sexually fulfilled sex life too.

My MO with men has always been about the sex...the dick...and not relationships. I have never really wanted to have a relationship with a man. Never wanted the lifestyle.

NOW, I am questioning whether I am really bisexual at all. If I could eliminate the desire for the male appendage, I really think my life would be so much calmer. I think I have objectified the dick so much for so long, because of the abuse I recieved, I can't let go of it...figuratively speaking.

Are there any other "straight" men out there that know in their heart they are straight but have a "fetish" for penis? Does that make sense?

any comments would be appreciated...jake

I am diffenently confused and wish I could come to some terms with it.


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#182112 - 09/24/07 04:46 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Think (May Be Triggering) [Re: jakemed]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
that's what my therapist calls it...a "fetish" because I've never "fallen in love" with a man, I'm not attracted emotionally...it's all about a particualr sexual act. (I'm a virgin by the way)

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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#182174 - 09/24/07 10:45 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR
Kelly-

Thank you so much for starting this post. I woke up at 4:00 this morning (par for the course lately) with my head spinning. I almost called my girlfriend, but instead I turned to this site for the first time to unload some baggage.

I am 32 and have been wrestling with my sexual identity since I was 18. I was abused by at a babysitter (and possibly her friend) when I was somewhere between 5-7 on at least several occasions. The most disturbing memory is when she attempted to have me penetrate her, I couldn't for whatever reason, and she became angry at me for "not doing it right."

I learned to masturbate with my best friend in middle school (the same friend who often came over to "play" with the same babysitter. Our jerkoff sessions led to mutual masturbation which led to some oral play. He said he fantasized about the "hottest girl in class" while we played while I realized I didn't fantasize about anyone - was just WITH him.

Adolescence marched on, and my masturbation always involved female images. I was allowed sub>

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#182191 - 09/24/07 11:24 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Csmith]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
Get a therapist, if you do not have one. The only thing that is truly clear from this post is that you have alot of different situations in your life and in each one you have a way to avoid the threat of being close to other people, male or female. (Your teenage friend, your high school girlfriend, your girlfriend, your committed male friends) You make it sound as though, in one way or another, none of these people are available. Why is that?

I don't want to sound too harsh (just my 2 cents) but focusing on your sexuality (especially given that obsessing about it seems like a way to stay at distance from your girlfriend) seems like it might not be very helpful and that perhaps there is something more fundamental about trust at play here.

I have the strong sense that your not wanting to see Tanya as an escape from homosexuality is a way of not letting her get close to what freaks you out. Like control masquerading as concern. I could be wrong though. Given that you tried calling yourself gay and that it felt wrong, seems like a rather conspicuous red flag. Most of the gay men I know were relieved to say that and acknowledge their realities wholly.

In fact you sort of said it yourself -- instead of calling your girlfriend, you tried to find another place to unload your baggage. Rather than reach out to her, or bother her with your "baggage", you came here. Why?

Good luck, TW

ps. I just re-read this and it seems a little harsh, but I'll let it stand. I'm only trying to help. Please take with some salt grains....


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#182261 - 09/25/07 10:07 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Csmith]
cbfull Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Csmith
...but not the ecstatic rush I have in my fantasy life. Granted, the few sexual experiences with men I've had in my adulthood were with men I didn't love.

Which brings me to another interesting fact: I feel like I've fallen in love with several friends. One in particular right now, I really feel for. When I fantasize about him sexually, it feels like it should, you know? Right. The thing is, he's straight. I'm also in a committed relationship with my girlfriend that is becoming more stressful sexually to me.

Do you feel comfortable giving details about this "fantasy life"? What kind of fantasy is giving you the ecstatic rush?

Developing crushes on "straight" men can mean many things. It could be a way for you to let your desires run free, but without the threat and intensity of actual commitment. I know this one quite well, I still go through it from time to time. A crush on an unavailable person can be incredibly exhilerating and it can be incredibly painful and upsetting. In general, if the crush is fun and exhilerating, it is probably harmless and safe. On the other hand, if it is painful and upsetting (lowered self-esteem, depression, etc.) then I would say that the interaction is not safe for you, and you may need to find a way to cease interactions with this individual.

It can also mean that you need a male role model, someone who is the kind of male you would like to be. I don't have a lot of insight for this so maybe someone else can chime in if it seems like this fits you.

Originally Posted By: Csmith
I've vowed that this time, with Tanya, I would break my previous sexual cycles and "figure it all out." Either I'd commit to her for good, or break up and follow relationships with men.

That sounds like a HUGE bite to start off. "Figuring it all out" is something that can take many, many years, even 10+ years for some. Go easy on yourself, and don't be afraid to be ask if you need help deciding what might be some good starters for you. One thing that comes to mind would be to watch a movie involving a gay relationship (not porn!). There is a very good movie, "A Home at the End of the World" that might be suitable for this purpose.

Also, be careful not to set "guilt traps" for yourself, like promising yourself that you will not do something "next time". These traps are extremely damaging to our self-esteem. It doesn't quite sound like you are doing this with your "vow", but I thought I should mention it in case Tanya's visit does not turn out exactly as you requested. Go easy on the guilt, okay?

Tanya sounds like she is very supportive, hopefully she respects your boundaries and won't take advantage of your vulnerability since you have specifically asked that nothing sexual be allowed.

You are making progress, take a moment and allow yourself to be proud of it.

Best wishes,

Craig

_________________________
Craig

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

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#182269 - 09/25/07 10:29 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Think (May Be Triggering) [Re: bp83]
jakemed Offline
Guest

Registered: 08/23/07
Posts: 37
even though intellectually I understand the 'fetish" concept, the objectification of the penis, emotionally it doesn't make sense. Because I am married to a very supportive woman for many years, it still caused us enormous pain in the past, especially when I was actively pursuing that penis. She knew at the time but damage none the less.

And of course, I honestly don't know if I am bi or just conditioned by my abuse. Very confusing. My therapist has said the same thing, that I am subconsciously focusing on the body part because of the detachment of all of the abuse except...the dick. She also said that it is a possiblity that through therapy, the realization and the the healing of those wounds, that the fetishism may lessen over time, like so many other emotional problems that stem from the abuse. But of course, I just might be bisexual...shit!!!!...see the confusion.

jake


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#182276 - 09/25/07 11:24 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: testingWaters]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR
TW

Bless you for your thoughtful comments. I really appreciate it. And no, not too harsh. On the contrary, I'm SO ready for reality checks.

You've hit some nails that I have pondered. Namely, fear of intimacy. Emotional that is. I find myself browsing "fear of intimacy" or "fear of women" in Google lately. Tanya has been a Godsend for me in this department. For the first time, I have really made myself emotionally available for a girlfriend. Although you're right, I do put her and others at distances, I have had so many breakthrough moments of trust with her, that for once in my life I have truly pondered long term commitment. I have in fact, committed to her by saying I always want her in my life. Whether this is as a spouse or friend, I don't feel like I can say, but, I feel that this level of commitment is something that will hold me to the promise of being honest more honest with myself and my gf than I have in the past. I have always viewed GFs as someone temporary. Tanya is truly "marriage material".

But the M word is a long way off. Tanya is incredibly supportive and patient and as long as I am being honest with her, I accept this patience. The problem is guilt.

I feel like I hold things back from her. Namely, my homosexual thoughts. What inevitably happens is that something triggers the downward spiral: A man I see who I think is attractive, or a plot in a movie that is about "Being true to yourself", etc. These get me thinking, "I am meant to be gay, thus, staying with Tanya is wrong and untrue to yourself. And instead of talking about it, I let it stew, then it comes out as anger at her, myself, or both. The thing is, I dont feel like I can tell her every little trigger. Why not? I don't know. I'm seeing now that maybe I could tell her right away when things come up.

So my emotional distance I put between people: I have given myself two possible reasons for this: My abuse or other events have made me deeply fearful of sexual intimacy, especially with women; or, I am gay in my core and my denial of this causes me to put distance between myself and those who I perceive as ultimately causing this realization to occur in me fully.

Perhaps this ultimatum is unfair though.

I am in search of a therapist. Unfortunately, I am in the Middle East and it will be difficult to find one here. I am stuck in a job here until next June, when I can return stateside. Until then, we are stuck on the computer/phone with occasional visits. she may work here, but that's looking iffy. Meanwhile, I desperately want intimacy with Tanya. I have tasted it fully with her, love her deeply, yet, find it difficult to truly trust her with my self. How to reach this? What to communicate to her? Every little thought? But I don't want to bum her out.

I better stop before this gets more disjointed and extended. Thanks again, TW.

C


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#182313 - 09/25/07 04:08 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
Kelly
I just joined male survivor today and am too trying to figure out just who I am. I love my girl friend but have thoughts and fantacy's regarding my own sex. I hope I can come to some answers to my questions regarding my masculinity.
Kenken

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#182321 - 09/25/07 05:19 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: KENKEN]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Kenken -

Welcome to Male Survivor. Let me be the first to tell you you may not find answers here, but it does give you a safe place to 'think out load' without fear of being rejected or having anything to expalin. I started this thread to express my own confusion (hence the "I Think" all over it) and found out that no one can give me the answer...and that there are a whole lot of confused folks here to talk to. And that talk can help me understand about myself.

Welcome and I bid you Peace -



Edited by kellygtx (09/25/07 05:20 PM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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#182335 - 09/25/07 07:35 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
testingWaters Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 508
C

I'm glad this was helpful. To some degree I am just urging you to watch out for talking about this stuff on a thread that is really about sexual identity issues. You are talking about a series of triggers that cause a whole series of thoughts that make you feel unstable. It is almost as though it could be anything - not just the possibility you are gay. Again I could be wrong.

It sounds very much to me like you love this woman, trust her, would like to marry her, feel free enough in the relationship to ask for what you need (even if its just a test - the boundary stuff) and there is a part of you that does not trust yourself to take care of another person's integrity and vulnerability.

Whenever you talk about sexuality in these threads, you talk about being afraid you will "realize you are gay." Yet again, you're really comfortable with that possibility -- you have talked alot about it, said it out loud, etc. Do you think there is a possibility that you are afraid of discovering something else about yourself that really is frightening to you?

It is really out of whack that you are so conscientious about the possibility of hurting this woman, so, so conscientious in fact, hypervigilant almost, yet you remain with her. Sounds like you are on the right path there, to me at least.

Do you think it is *possible* that someone who was entrusted with protecting you when you were vulnerable really hurt you (regardless of the gender) and so you are utterly terrified you could do the same to someone else (anything else) that is entrusted to you.

A wild guess says that your straight male friends who are in committed relationships are at an absolutely zero level of risk by you. Same guess says you probably don't see these guys as particularly vulnerable (though I bet deep down they are).

Just some thoughts.....

Love, TW


ps. have some real falafel for me in the Middle East.......


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#182336 - 09/25/07 07:57 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Csmith]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Corbin (in particular) and the rest of you guys as well;

I feel compelled to reply because I can empathize with a lot of the feelings I've seen communicated here. I'm no expert, but sometimes hindsight lends a new perspective. First, a little history...

I was raped by several men, first at 4 (I've been told, I have no memory) and also at 7. I was molested by a male teacher when I was 8 and 9, and also about that time I started having sex with a boy my age. I was raped again at the age of 14, and again at the age of 25. I married a woman when I was 22, and we had a son. I was unfaithfull to her with men, and divorced her after my rape at 25. I had several boyfriends and girlfriends for the next several years, but the desire to be with my son brought me and my ex-wife back together again and we remarried and had a couple more kids. Yet still, I was not faithful to her (with both men and women). Finally, we were divorced in 1999 and I got custody of the two younger children. Our oldest son was in college.

I guess I knew I was gay back in 1969 but for 30 years I thought of myself as bisexual. Looking back though, 90% of my relationships have been with men. I think I was more afraid than loving toward women; my drive to have a family and a 'normal' relationship kept pushing me back to the girls, as much as my fear of being 'queer'. But nature will rule, and in 2002 I met the man I want to spend the rest of my life with and 'married' him.

Enough about me. I wanted to address some of the ideas you listed in your post;

Originally Posted By: Csmith

Yet, the few girls I thought I was interested in intimidated me so much that I could never divulge what I thought about them. It was like my self-loathing around women was so strong that I couldn't allow myself to become infatuated.


Perhaps it was that you couldn't allow yourself to trust them. If you knew at the time that your abuser(s) were female, what would it take for you to trust another female, sexually?

I was never sexually abused by a female, so this is just a guess. But I did have an overbearing mother and two older sisters that in some regards may have been emotionally abusive (in the way that many siblings are). Whatever the reason is, I share many of the feelings of inadequacy and fear of intimacy with women that you do.

Originally Posted By: Csmith
A flash of juxtaposition between the discomfort I felt with being sexual with her and the comfort I felt with Matt hit me with a ton of bricks. For the first time I labeled myself with a possible identity by asking myself, "Does this mean I'm gay?"


My first true love was with that boy my own age that I mentioned earlier. Our relationship lasted almost 6 years, and for the rest of my life I have been searching to replace the feelings I had with him. I know that these feelings are a fantasy that I can never fulfill, and finally accepted the love of a man who is not at all like him.

I guess one of the things that made this boy so attractive in my memory was that having sex with him had none of the stress I experienced with girls/women. None of the uncertainty if I was doing 'it' right, no question about what felt good or what he wanted next... It just 'felt right' as you pointed out.

Originally Posted By: Csmith
I have had a number of girlfriends since Julie and each time is pretty much the same cycle: Meet them, have sex soon after we start dating, begin to get guilty of my unfulfillment and shame that I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing. Break up with her on the grounds that I don't love her, sometimes vowing to myself that I would "try men next time" only to become uninterested in men and start another cycle with another woman I meet and like.


Oh yeah, then there's the whole guilt thing. I didn't feel guilty about having sex with men, I felt guilty about having sex with women... like I had violated them, used them for my own pleasure... After all, I reasoned that women don't really like sex, they only do it to 'catch a guy' or to get pregnant. I know now that that sentiment is wrong, but at the time that was all I knew. The only truly satisfying sexual relationship I've ever had with a woman was with a lesbian who liked me well enough but was only in it for the sex. How absurd is that; a gay guy and a lesbian fucking each other's brains out...??? But she was the first and only woman I had sex with who made it clear that she didn't want to marry me, didn't want anything but a fling in the sheets with someone who had a penis for a change...

Originally Posted By: Csmith
I have "tried men" and each time has been... blah. It was comfortable in a way, none of the guilty feelings I associate with women and feeling like I am using them, but not the ecstatic rush I have in my fantasy life. Granted, the few sexual experiences with men I've had in my adulthood were with men I didn't love.


I guess this begs the question; what is your fantasy life? Have you ever had that ecstatic rush with anyone, male or female? While I'll be the first to agree that there is nothing that compares with a sexual relationship with someone you love, in my humble opinion it is not necessary to love someone to have good sex. Maybe not the ultimate high, but close... So, just what IS your ultimate jerk-off fantasy, and what is the closest you've ever come to that in real life? Nosey questions I know, but inquiring minds want to know.

Originally Posted By: Csmith
Which brings me to another interesting fact: I feel like I've fallen in love with several friends. One in particular right now, I really feel for. When I fantasize about him sexually, it feels like it should, you know? Right. The thing is, he's straight. I'm also in a committed relationship with my girlfriend that is becoming more stressful sexually to me.


Is it the 'forbidden fruit' that attracts you, or the fact that it is unattainable? And I'm sorry that your relationship with your girlfriend is stressful to you sexually. But I'm confused; is the stress because you 'aren't getting any', or that sooner or later you're gonna have to 'put out' for her? Are you afraid that when you do have sex it won't be good for her, or for you?

Originally Posted By: Csmith
I've vowed that this time, with Tanya, I would break my previous sexual cycles and "figure it all out." Either I'd commit to her for good, or break up and follow relationships with men. The thing is, I feel like I am finally allowing myself to open up with a woman. Trust her. Trust myself with her, both with my heart and body.


That's a great plan, but as you've already been warned, don't bite off more than you can chew. Just 'figuring it out' is kinda like saying 'just get over it', and we all know that THAT doesn't happen all by itself. If you are really interested in figuring out your sexuality with Tanya, here are a couple of suggestions;

First, you have to trust her enough to come clean with her. Tell her the truth about your fears and concerns. That way, you'll both know that if/when you stumble over a trigger, it's nobody's fault, no harm no foul as they say, and you can move past it without a lot of Q's and A's...

Second, consider revising your 'no sex' policy on her next visit so as to not preclude the myriad of non-intercourse sexual play that loving couples can do. Bubble baths, backrubs, 'toe jobs', blow jobs, butt massage, nipple play... the penis and vagina are not the only sexual organs on the human body. Think of it as going back to your lost childhood and discovering sexuality the way it was SUPPOSED to be done. Close the curtains and play!

Finally, take a que from the pages of a B/D manual and agree beforehand on a keyword that means "Stop", no questions asked. This will require a conversation beforehand, but believe me it helps. I can't tell you how many times I got myself into situations where I was uncomfortable going any further, but it was difficult knowing how to tell my partner to stop (and change directions) without ruining the mood. If you let her know in advance that you have triggers, which are not her fault and don't necessarily mean that you want to get dressed and go home but that you want to pause and redirect the action, might save the evening. I know the conversation that must take place beforehand might be awkward, but believe me if she is to love you she has to know these things. You have to know them too, and make these simple allowances for your own benefit.

Originally Posted By: Csmith
I am aware that I will never be okay with Tanya if I see her as an escape from homosexuality.


This is the absolute truth. Either you want to be with her, or you don't. That's not to say that either you or her can set boundaries, and take things at a pace that is comfortable with you. Some couples can rip each other's clothes off as soon as they are in private and make mad passionate love at a moment's notice. Some others, especially those of us with intimacy issues resulting from CSA trauma, want and need to do things at a different pace. There is nothing wrong with either way.

Originally Posted By: Csmith
I have talked about this with Tanya, even once said, "I'm gay." in the intent of trying to break up. When it came out, it just didn't feel right... The thing is, I have grown to have more emotional connections with (straight) male friends so there lies the confusion.


And here, my friend, is where I wish you the best of luck. We can have physical relationships all we want, but the emotional relationships we build are the key to who we really are. I'm not saying that you are gay, but only that you seem to need a male role model. Since you gravitate to straight men, it seems to me that your need is not as much sexual as it is emotional. It's hard not to confuse the two, but it is this one apsect of your post that leads me to suspect that you are not inherently homosexual. I understand and empathize with your confusion, and wish I had more concrete answers for you. I hope you will explore your feelings a good deal more before you decide on a path for yourself because no one can tell you what is the right path for you. This is not something that must be decided right away. At the very least, I hope you enjoy Tanya.

I wish you the best,

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#182445 - 09/26/07 09:58 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Lazarus]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR
Thanks so much for all your thoughts. I need this.

Lazarus - let me try to answer some of your questions.

You ask what it would take to trust a woman sexually. You later gave an answer that is what I have come up with only recently. That is, slow it down. I feel like I never had a normal development of a physical relationship with a girl. I went from early molestation, to rushed sex in adolescence with women I never felt a close intimate bond with. I finally met a woman that I have allowed this emotional intimacy to grow (An old acquaintance, and we started our relationship long distance and online for the first 5 months). But even so, as soon as we met in person again last summer, it was between the sheets fast.

So, I have given her my request of "non sexual activity" while she is here for the visit, but I am imagining more like what you envisioned. Start out with hand holding, non genital touching, kissing, etc. And feel my way from there. Talk to her. Talk to myself about how it all feels. And take your advice - discuss triggers with her. Yet, this seems to be the skill I find difficult: What to discuss and what not to? I love the fantasy of acting like adolescents first discovering each other and doing what feels right all along, but, i get a pit in my stomach sometimes when imagining this because I don't feel like I trust myself enough to state my boundaries. Luckily, I have voiced enough of this to T that she says she will be very sensitive and cautious of our play.

Your next question: So, just what IS your ultimate jerk-off fantasy, and what is the closest you've ever come to that in real life? This is where it gets tricky. I tried masturbating while fantasizing about my good friend (straight, who knows nothing about my bisexuality) months ago for the first time. It was amazing. None of the guilt that I have during sex with women (even in fantasies) but it felt very loving and accepting. I refrain from thinking of him too much for fear of becoming wrapped up in the fantasy of him and whatever consequences that might bring. How much value do I place on fantasies???

Real life male sex: I have been sexual with one gay friend (who wanted to be serious) and some guys I met in Amsterdam. None of these experiences were the epiphany I feel I'm yearning for. In fact, even though there wasn't the guilt that I associate with sex with women, it wasn't that exciting. I'd even say that I'd rather have sex with women even with the guilt!
Lazarus, you later ask where the guilt comes from with women: It is difficult to say if it is guilt of pleasing her or me, because it seems like both. I'd say it's more a guilt I am "using" her even though my heart isn't in it like it feels in my fantasies about Andy. Once, T and I were having sex, and close to the end, I imagined that I was fucking a man. An unidentifiable man, but a man nonetheless. I remember that orgasm was a release like none before with her. (or after). Yet, I did feel guilt since I wasn't "with her" in my head.

I know you are right about the male role model thing, too. My sexual urges definitely stem mainly from emotional connections with men. Recently, I have noticed more arousal when looking at strangers, though, with my straight, good friends, I feel a strong physical longing that transcends even genitals. A trust, a love, a connection, that I miss with women.

Again, I just thought, "How much of this could I tell Tanya? I want her to understand, and our intimate moments grow from my honesty. But, she is biased - she loves me and wants to have a committed, long term relationship with me. She takes things personally which I really don't see as about HER per se, so I often hold back.

Which is why I need a counselor. I'm looking for one I can do online sessions with since I'm in the middle east. We'll see.
T is so supportive of this, she has gone online and looked for me. This woman truly loves me. I only wish it weren't so hard to love myself (and/or her) when sex comes up.

Thanks again for you kindness and thoughts. I feel like I'm getting a taste of the intimacy I crave from men.


C


p.s. Sorry about being on this thread if it's not appropriate, but I don't want to change now after getting so many helpful responses.



Edited by Csmith (09/26/07 10:00 AM)

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#182551 - 09/26/07 06:58 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: Csmith]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Corbin,

Originally Posted By: Csmith
Thanks for those who read this whole thing. I am in desperate need of some insight and support. I look forward to hearing what you have to say.


Yep, read the whole thing. ;\) I just wanted to let you know that a few minutes ago I posted on the other thread currently going in this forum, about fantasies about men, that you might find helpful. Just some ideas to think about.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#182554 - 09/26/07 07:07 PM Re: I am Bisexual...I Think (May Be Triggering) [Re: jakemed]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jake,

Originally Posted By: jakemed
Are there any other "straight" men out there that know in their heart they are straight but have a "fetish" for penis? Does that make sense?


Yep, it makes all the sense in the world! An abused boy will often see the abuser's power over him as focused on the penis: his own, because he thinks this is what has "attracted" the abuser, and the abuser's penis as well, which is of course what the abuser wants to have serviced.

This feeling for the power and "centrality" of the penis can lead the boy to eroticize the penis in general. The path to doing this is made all the easier by the fact that the boy's boundaries have been reduced to rubble anyway; all the taboos have been broken.

So Jake, this is more likely to be an abuse issue than a matter of sexuality. A guy can be straight (although I dislike the labels), and his sexual fantasies can still get hijacked by those old feelings and scenarios he went through as a boy.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#182717 - 09/27/07 09:53 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: kellygtx]
KENKEN Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 762
Loc: NOTHERN COLORADO
Hi Kelly:
Thanks for the reply. I hope through discussion with others that are as confused as I am that I can feel beter about myself.
Thanks
KENKEN

_________________________
I AM A GOOD PERSON, I AM A GOOD MAN

From the Movie: Antwone Fisher

***WOR ALUMNI SEQUOIA MARCH 2008***

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#189368 - 10/31/07 09:56 AM Re: I am Bisexual...I Thiink (May Be Triggering) [Re: testingWaters]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR
Again, you speak to me, TW. I too, have experimented with men. And it wasn't what I imagined. Not nearly as fun. Kinda boring, actually.

These days I tend to fantasize more about men, though. My sexual experience is far more with women. Only a couple times of guy sex (not including my childhood friend and I) When I'm single, I halfheartedly look for guys to be with, but i'm just not into it. I feel like I could let myself be taken over perhaps, but I don't really want that. I don't want to feel like I don't have control. Sometimes, with male friends, the pull is so powerful that it scares me. With women, it seems more manageable. Yet, at the same time, I WANT that heavy fantasy-induced sensation.

But what do I really want? I want emotional support and closeness. I am getting with my fiance more of this then I've ever come close to. And a big part of this is that I am allowing myself to not be afraid. To not let my guilt stop me from being here for her. Some guys on this site say they don't feel like they can give women what the want or need, and I have felt like this in the past. But for once, I am feeling like I can. When she asks for my love. Reassurance that I love her, I give it to her. Sometimes it's a bit difficult, but when I decide to do it, it feels amazing. It is like a burden off of me, and I think part of this is that I am being selfless. I am letting go of my fear of the future or past and just being HERE with her and wanting her to feel loved and cared about. At these moments, it seems utterly ridiculous that I question my sexuality.

But later, when I start to analyze everything, my fears come back.

thanks for letting my unload here. I gotta go, but this was good.

C


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