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#177706 - 09/01/07 07:56 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
adam...it makes PERFECT sense. Can i ask if you are paralleling this story to your experience with God? or at least with the God I bleieve in?

If so, the first thing that strikes me is that God never has promised to keep anyone from being hurt...that is the major and defining difference between the two.

do you see what i'm saying? if we see God as always being and will always be, then we are talking eternity. If we believe that when we die we either go to heaven or hell for eternity...then this lif is but a blip on the radar screen of the whole picture....

I have said this before...but ithink God put this world into motion and is present but not interfering (saving us from the hurt that evil in the world propogates) because our relationship has to be one we desire...for the relationship not becauseHe saved us from pain or gave us this or that....

THEN...and this is the kicker to it all...when we die after this blip in time of a life...we WILL spend eternity with Him and HE DOES GUARANTEE US AT THAT TIME that there will be no more tears or pain...it is eternity that God is focusing on...

just my opinion...not trying to force it on anyone.


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#177709 - 09/01/07 08:09 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
every time I hit "submit", there is a new post to respond to.

Adam:

Your post was amazing.

About eight years ago, when I was heavy into the addictive stage of my life, I had a good friend who was a Lutheran minister. I actually attended church off and on to listen to his sermons. He would actually call me once in a while to tell me he was going to give a sermon on a particular day in response to some of the discussions we had.

When I asked him a question similar to this amazing analogy you just provided for the rest of us, his answer astounded me. I know what his response to you would be.

God would never ask you to jump off a roof for him, so it would be kind of silly to expect him to catch you every time you jump. In fact, God would give us alternatives to jumping off the roof. Sometimes, those alternatives are as plain as day. There are steps over to the right. Maybe there is a ladder. Sometimes, those alternatives are hidden. Maybe you have to jump to the next roof to find a trellace that will lead you to a balcony from where you could jump down onto a trampoline. And of course, some of these choices might be the wrong choices. We could trample someone else on the way to the fire escape, or we could push someone off the edge to have a cushion to land on.

The point is, God (allegedly) gave us free will in order to do whatever we want. Unfortunately, the people who hurt us also had this gift of free will. Those people used that gift in a way that would hurt us. The important thing is, if we always try make the righteous and just decisions, and if we always acknowledge our mistakes and try harder next time, God will be waiting for us with open arms when it is all over.

I'm a pure-blooded agnostic who is quite ignorant of God's will even though I have studied it at length. However, this is my interpretation of what was taught to me by a Lutheran minister, who I also deem to be a great man.



Edited by BJK (09/01/07 08:12 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177715 - 09/01/07 08:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
healingpartner Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 407
BJK

That analogy reminds me of a joke I once heard that had some wisdom in it.

A man was in a flood. The police came to his door and said sir you need to leave the flooding is getting severe. He said 'no, God will save me.' The water continued to rise. Soon a police boat came along. 'Sir, we need to move you out of here. All your neighbors have left.' The man replied 'No, God will save me.' A few hours later the man was forced to retreat to his roof. A police helicopter came by. 'Sir, this is your last chance. Please come with us.' The man replied, 'NO, God will save me.' The man drowned. When he got to heaven he asked God 'why didn't you save me? I had faith.' God said, "I sent the police, a boat and a helicopter...what more do you want?'

I think sometimes we need our faith to be more practical...that it isn't always so miraculous, but God uses people and circumstances to provide for us.

Not sure if this rambling makes sense. Hope it does


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#177718 - 09/01/07 08:39 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: healingpartner]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
but faith means not looking for the ladder ,not needing the ladder . not even asking if the ladder exists. heaven? i did what i had to to survive and if that keeps me out well i guess i can chalk it up to free will. heaven is growing up normal ,

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177719 - 09/01/07 09:00 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Adam,

I apologize for being blunt, but I think you are asking too much from God. He can't make your decisions for you, and unfortunately, He didn't make the decisions for the person(s) who hurt you either. He didn't cause your hurt, and He is not responsible for stopping it. It sucks to say, but your hurt was caused by the free will He bestowed upon all men. The responsibilities lie with the person(s) who hurt you. You've used your free will well. Unfortunately, most people don't.

I want to stray away from talking about faith here, because I'm kind of a hypocrate for preaching faith when I don't have any, nor do I desire any, myself.

You did what you had to do in order to survive. I see you here on this board with an insatiable desire to help others, and I have seen in some of your posts an insatiable desire to protect children. These are all products of free will, and it seems to me that you are constantly making the right decisions. These are YOUR choices. If I was God, I'd let you into heaven in a heartbeat.

But I'm obviously not God, so we are both stuck in the same dilemma. The book of James chapter 2 has a lot to say about how faith alone cannot get someone into heavan, and that faith must be accompanied by works in order for that to happen. I have to ask, does it say anywhere in the Bible that works alone can get one into heaven without being accompanied by faith?

I guess I refuse to believe that an all powerful God could be that petty.

Originally Posted By: shadowkid
heaven is growing up normal ,


I really can't argue with this. As much as I want to try to reassure you, this one sentence just rings a little too close to home. I can only hope that, if there is a God, he makes certain allowances for guys like us who have had to endure shit like this in our lives.

Bryan



Edited by BJK (09/01/07 09:05 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177721 - 09/01/07 09:08 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
but faith means not looking for the ladder ,not needing the ladder . not even asking if the ladder exists.

I don't think faith takes away my need for a "ladder" - and I certainly ask often enough.

Faith, at least to me, means accepting that even if I step out and there is no ladder - even if I should fall and hurt myself - I will trust my God.

M


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#177723 - 09/01/07 09:10 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: healingpartner]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Lorie, it makes total sense. Obviously, I'm not a man of faith, but a person needs more than faith to survive. Faith doesn't grow crops. Faith doesn't bring water from the well. Faith doesn't feed the kids.

What does faith do?

I guess I don't know the answer to that.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177733 - 09/01/07 10:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
keeps you jumpping off the roof

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177736 - 09/01/07 10:53 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
krayoss Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 112
Loc: west
Robbie



Edited by krayoss (04/08/08 12:22 PM)

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#177737 - 09/01/07 10:57 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
keeps you jumpping off the roof


I guess I need proof that there will be someone there to catch me before I take that leap.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
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