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#177571 - 09/01/07 06:39 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
.



Edited by BJK (09/01/07 09:32 AM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177593 - 09/01/07 09:29 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
buzz_key Offline
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Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
Bryan,

With all due respect...

You ARE debating! why say you're not when yor whole post is a debate to what has been written before? Regardless...

You have missed the WHOLE point of this, we aren't talking about "religion"...religion is a manmade method to worshipp something, anything...

This is about a faith in knowing the Creator of the universe is alive and desiring a personal relationship with each one of us.

Some of your statements are what has given Christianity a bad name...."God can be whatever you want him to be"? - people defining God for themselves...
FLAT OUT...God is God...He is what He is...not what i WANT Him to be...
So...I define what I WANT Him to be? Then why do I even need Him, that logic says I don't. And if I don't need Him, then I can just fix all of my issues myself. Hmmmm...have a done a crappy job of that so far.
I define Him?...then He isn't God is HE? I am at that point. You can read the Bible through a million times and still not understand a word of it...number of reads does not imply understanding. Do you research the context and words back to their original languages to understand the true meaning of the writer?

So you are an "an analytical person who requires proof"? Then why not read Lee Strobel's "A Case for Christ"? He is a lawyer who made the same claims you do...he was an atheist with a capital "A"...so he put his money where his mouth is and DID the research....compiled the "evidence" and let the chips fall where they may...well....read the book, you might be surprised at what you find.

i hope i'm not coming off rude here, cause i sure don't want to...just participating in the thread.





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#177597 - 09/01/07 09:43 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: buzz_key]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I struck my last post.

If God doesn't accept who I am, and the immense amount of personal struggle I've been through to become who I am, then he is not only evil to me...he is the bane of all evils.

I'm not an atheist. I'm 100% agnostic, and I refuse to budge either way without concrete proof. If God can't accept that, then I guess I'm going to hell.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#177620 - 09/01/07 12:13 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: buzz_key]
BJK Offline
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Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Quote:
Some of your statements are what has given Christianity a bad name....


But I wasn't even talking about Christianity. I was talking about faith. I struck my comments because I realized that the person I was addressing might be confused by them, but nowhere in that post did I make a single comment about Christ or Christianity. I was simply offering the suggestion of exploring all possible avenues of faith instead of remaining convinced that the answers he seeks all lay down a single path.

Looking back, I wish I would have edited teh comments instead of striking them, but I drove to work this morning freaking out that someone might take them the wrong way. I removed them, then read your post, then responded.

Originally Posted By: buzz_key

So...I define what I WANT Him to be? Then why do I even need Him, that logic says I don't. And if I don't need Him, then I can just fix all of my issues myself. Hmmmm...have a done a crappy job of that so far.


Oh, but you have defined your own faith. You've rejcted Islam. You've rejected Buddhism. You've even rejected differing viewpoints within the Christian community that, even within themselves, cannot agree on a common belief system. You've rejected a number of differing faiths to arrive at your own. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is my belief that there is something inherintly wrong with denying other people that opportunity.

Since God refuses to present Himself to us and tell us, "here is what I want you to believe", then what other choice do we have than to mold our own faiths?

Quote:
So you are an "an analytical person who requires proof"? Then why not read Lee Strobel's "A Case for Christ"? He is a lawyer who made the same claims you do...he was an atheist with a capital "A"...so he put his money where his mouth is and DID the research....compiled the "evidence" and let the chips fall where they may...well....read the book, you might be surprised at what you find.


I have, and in doing so, I have only cemented my own belief system:

One way or another, it is impossible to know.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177624 - 09/01/07 12:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: BJK]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2503
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: BJK
Since God refuses to present Himself to us and tell us, "here is what I want you to believe", then what other choice do we have than to mold our own faiths?

Will all respect - He did. He presented Himself to us in the form of His holy Son. In Christ, He showed us the Father, and told us what He expected of us.

Now, it can easily be argumented those statements are from my faith, which they are. And I accept the Bible's definition of faith being "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." [Hebrews 11:1]

Personally, I see no problem with debate. I haven't seen anyone go to pure "argument" - which in my opinion is when you stop listening to each other. I love this place (and this thread) because we have been listening to each other. Or I thought so.

As far as "defining our own faith" or rejecting other belief systems - I go by what I understand the Bible to say. Could I be wrong - most definitely. So you won't find me saying a lot about other religions because I'm not an expert. I'm just a guy who's convinced he's a sinner and lost without God and has the hope for an eternal life with his creator. If you ask me my opinion on things, I usually share it, if I trust the person I'm talking with. Another place my past has an affect on how I respond...

M


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#177692 - 09/01/07 07:32 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
buzz_key Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
Shame on me...i took the bait and jumped into the fray...
i should know better...i did come off argumentative and i don't want to. you have every right to believe whatever you want...


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#177700 - 09/01/07 07:44 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
instead of defining our faith maybe we should define what faith is? how you get it ,how you lose it ,to me say i have this friend and hes big and strong ,and he says to me adam please jump off the roof ,i promise i'll catch you , since i know he loves me ,i really dont wanna jump ,but i have faith that if he loves me he will catch me ,so i jump and he catches me ,we do this ten times ,now my faith is like a rock i wont hesitate to jump cause he always catches me ,this is how we get faith ,same situtation except this time i climb up and jump but he dont catch me , so i think aint doin that again ,but he tells me if i love him i'll do it and he promises he will catch me , this is a different kind of faith ,but i do love him so i climb up and jump ,nope he dont catch me this time either,people make all kinds of excuses for him and tell me all the great things he has done for other people ,tell me if i ask he will catch me ,now this faith is desperation ,but i wanna prove i have faith in him that i love him ,so climb up again about halfway to the ground is where you lose faith ,and when you hit the ground you decide for damn sure you aint ever gonna jump again and no amount of being told all you got to do is ask wil make you do it. not sure if this makes sense but there it is .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#177702 - 09/01/07 07:52 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
It takes an immense amount of faith in order to follow your heart in such matters. I respect and admire that. Obviously, I'm not a man of faith, but I am a man of conviction. I beleive the teachings of Christ were good teachings. I just don't believe that he was the Son of God.

In fact, I will go on record as saying that the choice I made to give up my desire to believe in God was the most fulfilling choice I have ever made. I guess I just came to the conclusion that I was tired of trying to please other people, and these days, I live for the sole purpose of trying to please myself. It just so happens that living by the morals that were dictated by Christ pleases me, and I believe that the most true judge of character there is lies in admitting to one's mistakes (sins) and pledging to do better in the future. Spiritually, I have a tremendous amount of fulfillment in my life from living by these rules.

But I believe Christ requires faith in order to ascend into heaven, and that is the one thing I cannot provide.

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177703 - 09/01/07 07:52 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: buzz_key]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
buzz:

my post was guilty of the same thing, so I guess we're alike in a lot of ways.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177705 - 09/01/07 07:56 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
healingpartner Offline
Guest

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 407
a slight twist on that...to me faith is kinda like you climb so high you are above the clouds...you can't even see the friend. But you jump anyway. Along the way you may run into a few birds, get caught up in things, get a little windburn on the way down. But when you get near the ground, no matter where that may be, or how far it is from where you started. He is there to catch and comfort you.

don't know if that helps...I have been staying away from this thread, but this just came to me.

Lorie


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