Newest Members
OxfordArms, Anony_mous, Drew6991x, Miro, jj843
12365 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
gryffindor (67), KevinSweeney (57), latinflavor815 (52), latin_flavor_815 (52), RTMark (33), sabooka (35), southpaw10 (46)
Who's Online
4 registered (Doubter, 3 invisible), 13 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12365 Members
74 Forums
63552 Topics
444013 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#177346 - 08/31/07 06:22 AM Guilt over "liking it"
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
I'm afraid I need some help here guys. I've got guilt issues, and I've got them bad.

Here's what I know - that my abusers manipulated me into liking them, and liking what they wanted me to do, in order to make their job easier. And I fell for it, because I was a complete and total idiot. I didn't complain, not once. I thought they were the coolest adults in the universe, and I thought they cared about me or even (dare I say it?) loved me, to the point where when I was doing what they wanted me to do and it didn't hurt, I figured it was just all right because they would never make me do something harmful, right?

That was the mistake I made, when I was 10 years old. That was about 16 years ago, give or take. And that mistake has been haunting me ever since. 10-year-olds make all kinds of mistakes, of course; but by 27, most of those mistakes are forgotten about, because the mistakes you make when you're a little kid don't really matter that much. They don't make a huge impact on your life that lasts longer than a few days. But this mistake I've got to shoulder for the rest of my life?

I just can't get around the fact that "I liked it". My inner voice keeps telling me this, over and over. You liked it, and so it was all your fault. You liked it, so now you can't complain. You liked it, because you're a freak. I wish I could just rip that inner voice out of my head and throw it on the ground, and just stamp it out of existence. But I can't. So it stays there and constantly reminds me that the abuse was all my fault, and nobody else's. Because you liked it.

I wish I had somebody with me, someone who could hug me and tell me that it wasn't my fault, just as often as my inner voice tells me it was. Someone to tell me that my mistake was just like the rest of those mistakes I made as a little kid, that it just DOESN'T MATTER anymore. Some of you guys who have wonderful people like that - hold onto them, because they are a priceless commodity. And those of you who are those other, wonderful people - thank you so much for being there; he needs you, more than anything else in life. It so hard to do this alone. So terribly difficult. I wish I knew someone like you.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#177349 - 08/31/07 06:51 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
All I can say is I hear you and I know what it feels like.

This may sound stupid but one of my fantasies is being in the situation similar to Good Will Hunting where Robin Williams keep on telling him its not his fault until he breaks down.

I can not do more than to tell you here, ITS NOT YOU FAULT.

I know this probably didnt help but just know, you are not alone in this.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

Top
#177350 - 08/31/07 07:21 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
I fantasize about going back and doing it again, so you're definitely not alone.

What I think you're talking about here is the after-effects of being groomed. Unforunately, this isn't like the other silly mistakes that a kid usually makes because this isn't a mistake. You weren't an idiot. You were a kid. Kids have a tendancy to love and to trust unconditionally, and you knew some adults who used that tendency against you. They are the ones who made the mistake.

I actually had to meet some kids to get myself to realize this. Why do my nephew and my nieces love and trust me so much? I have done nothing to earn their love and their trust. Yet, they love and trust me anyway. It's my job to make sure I am worthy of that.

This is a hard issue to deal with. It's the reason why most male victims of childhood sexual abuse never come forward about their abuse. I feel a tremendous amount of shame for liking what was done to me, but the key statement is that it was something that was done to me. I was tricked, just like you, and all of these years later, the most difficult part of the abuse to deal with is the grooming.

If I liked it and actively sought it out, it must have been my fault, right? The answer is "no". I wanted love and nurturing, and this was the only love and nurturing I received. So the bottom line really is, do I hold anything I did when I was 10 years old against myself? No...especially when I was accompanied by an adult who should have known better.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#177353 - 08/31/07 07:53 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: BJK]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
I liked it, too. I was never allowed to initiate, so I would wait and wait... because if felt good. I was little, but it was the most amazing feeling in the world. I would feel guilty afterwards because I liked it... 37 years later I still wake up some nights in a cold sweat - hating myself for going along, for always being available, for letting it happen.. hoping it would happen. When it stopped, I grieved and felt abandoned...


But it was not my fault. Like Bryan said, I was groomed. I was duped. I thought this was what I had to do to get acceptence from him and I did it... and because my body is programmed that way, it felt good...

It was not your fault... it was not your fault and I need to tell you, I teared up when i saw your post, because I dream about Robin Williams holding me, too.... except in mine, I get to be as nice looking as Matt Damon!

you are not alone, because we know... we all know... it was not your fault and you didn't deserve it... none of us did.

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

Top
#177371 - 08/31/07 10:17 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: dannym]
Jarrad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
omg i totally liked it. it can be argued that it was the best sex ive had in my life. if you ask someone who wasn't abused what their most memorable time they had sex, they will probabaly say the first time. wether it was good or bad they remember it. so we remember it too. ours was just in a different situation.

and guys we are talking about sex. sex feels good. for most of us its the first time that we have ever been stimulated in that way. who wouldn't want that? as for faults. i almost think it is two fold. i hear ya at thinking that i am at fault and no matter who says im not, i cant imagine why i wouldn't be. it was me who went there. it was me who liked it. it was me who asked for more. i get that there is "grooming" invovled but at the end of the day, i knew what i was doing. the other part of the fault lied with the abuser. but you can argue that it isn't their fault either. if you think about it, someone who wants to have sex with children is obviously fucked in the head. so can we hold a mentally fuked person responsible? can it be argued that "he didnt know what he was doing because he's crazy?" i dont know. im just throwing that out there. i do know thought, that dwelling on "whose fault it is" doesn't do any good in the long run. focus on the things you can control.


Top
#177373 - 08/31/07 10:24 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: dannym]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Melliferal,

I did not like what my brother or his friend did to me...but it did set me up for my third perp. He told me he loved me and that made all the difference in the world..and I remember feeling it was OK and fun because he said he loved me. How crazy is that! A 45+ year old man having anal sex with a 12 or 13 year old boy and it was OK? I think my earlier abuse by my brother and his friend set up this last abuse.

That is what grooming does - it just mixes you all up. Don't beat yourself up because you liked it or are confused about it. Just let it go, feel what you feel, and move on.




Edited by kellygtx (08/31/07 10:26 AM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

Top
#177374 - 08/31/07 10:32 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: kellygtx]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
I hurt every time I see someone talk about their guilt, even though it's one thing I haven't run across. At least, not with the limited memories I have gotten back. In them, I never had a choice - the perps were much older, much bigger, much stronger, an usually more than one.

But I am positive, no matter how much you may have enjoyed the pleasures - the event was NOT your fault.

M


Top
#177375 - 08/31/07 10:43 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: MarkK]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Most victims who were groomed, as opposed to outright/forcibly raped, have to have liked at least SOME ASPECT of the attentions and affection that their perps offer, else wise, the grooming process can't succeed.

For instance, I didn't LIKE the sex, but I put up with it so that he would pay attention to me, talk to me, perhaps buy me gifts, let me play with his cool stuff in his house, all that.

I don't feel guilty AT ALL about what I did when I was 9, it was how I handled the effects of my abuse, later in my adult life, that I have a hard time forgiving myself for.


Top
#177380 - 08/31/07 11:09 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: Hauser]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Hauser -

I can agree with that - the guilt I feel over the abuse is NOTHING compared to the guilt I feel about how I handled it as an adult. The acting out...the cutting. Self forgiveness - I am still working on that!!~

But for you <<<<Hauser>>>>



Edited by kellygtx (08/31/07 11:27 AM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

Top
#177384 - 08/31/07 11:27 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: kellygtx]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Thanks guys, I appreciate all your comments. I suppose it does, after all, come down to my anger at having been groomed. I feel bad that I wasn't able to see it happening and resist. I know that you can't expect young kids to be able to do that; everybody plays the fool at some time or other, right? But still, I feel pretty bad about it anyway. I can't shake the notion that I should've known better. I'm trying, I really am, but it's not working yet.

Hauser, you are right - I absolutely did love the attention and affection. They acted like I was a friend rather than just a kid, and it was practically irresistible; I would've done anything for them. I guess I proved it too, didn't I?

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#177389 - 08/31/07 11:42 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
There isn't much I can add, exept for maybe this; abusers somehow LEARN to be experts at the two skills I think are most essential in being abusers, namely rationalization and manipulation.

Rationalization - the ability to explain away anything, anything you do, no matter how wrong you KNOW it might be.

Manipulation - the ability to make others do what you want them to do, no matter how wrong you BOTH know it is, by playing on their needs.

In a sense, these people are very good at giving us what we want. Which is why some of the abuse feels good and the emotions we get from it feel good. Someone has already said sex feels good and anything involving the sex organs, unless involving torture, feels good. They know this, and they use it to get us to believe it's all right. After all, if we didn't want it, we'd not respond the way we did, would we?

Insidious, isn't it? How they make US feel it's OUR fault. It all comes down to how they're able to make themselves believe it isn't wrong, and that we like it. They believe it, so they can do it. They make US believe it, so we go along.

Again, its been said before, but we all need to hear it repeatedly. There was nothing wrong with you. It wasn't your fault. Even if you think you liked it - Hell, even if you BELIEVE you liked it - you were a child and they manipulated you into doing something wrong. Liking the feelings, physical and emotional, is probably the ONLY thing about the whole mess that was "normal." The predetor's greatest tool.

I hope this helps.

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

Top
#177488 - 08/31/07 08:18 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Melliferal,

I can relate to what you're saying. My version of what you are feeling now was looking back and remembering that my body listened to him and not to me. Always. I could easily see that back then I was being used, scared, threatened, and manipulated. I could even get the idea - an absolute truth, by the way - that it can never be the kid's fault. BUT still, I felt so ashamed and guilty for what happened. And it wasn't just "liking" the physical feelings: I showed up whenever he wanted, I got in his car, I went upstairs on my own to get ready, the whole thing. How could I not be guilty? I had a lot to be ashamed of.

You say you were a complete idiot for falling for what they were doing. This was your mistake, and on top of that you liked it. This makes everything your fault.

Melliferal, you were 10 years old! Like all young boys you would have been curious, and what can make a kid happier than to have fun in such a way that he fits in with the other kids and gains approval from the grownups all at the same time. I remember your survivor story. At first you were grossed out by the video in the VCR, but then you and the other kids tried doing those things. It was a laugh, it felt good, and then on top of everything else the grownups show up, approve and encourage what's going on, and shower you with affection and attention.

That's a classic example of grooming and manipulation, bro, and I think just about any kid in your situation would fall for that. You weren't an idiot and there's no need for you to take an adult's crime (how did that video get left in the VCR?) and see it as your mistake.

I think you would probably agree with me so far. The question is something deeper: If all this is true, why can't you shake these feelings of guilt. You think you should have known better.

I remember your survivor story. Some time later on you heard about child abuse and came to realize what had happened to you. And I remember how you described your feelings at this discovery: It all hit you like a ton of bricks.

Melliferal, when this happens to a boy he doesn't just grow out of it or "get over it". The reason for that is that sexual abuse isn't just a physical act; it attacks how we feel about ourselves, our place in the world, and how we can relate to others. We learn a host of false lessons about ourselves, and unless we get help to deal with all the wrong ideas we have, we just carry them on into adulthood.

That "little voice" telling you this was all your fault because you "liked it" - that's one of those old tapes still playing in your head. Children are prone to blame bad things on themselves anyway, especially if what happened had left them with bad feelings about themselves. And in your case, there's also the fact that your memories of the adults are so positive. Unconsciously you probably want to hang on to them as good people, but if you aren't to blame, then they are! And THAT means they were predators and not cool adults after all. For the little guy within you, that's a terrible possibility to contemplate.

You say you should have known better, but my reply to that is this: How should you have known better at the age of 10? Getting a kid to go along with abuse means breaking down his taboos about private touching and nakedness - that is, eroding the boundaries that even a young boy will have. And you DID have such boundaries; that's why you said "Ewwww" when you saw the porn video in the VCR. But you were with kids you liked and felt comfortable with, and on top of that here come the adults with an absolutely positive reinforcement for what was happening.

What did you know about sex at the age of 10? What resources did you have to make an informed choice? What information did you have about what would be good or bad for you in the long term? What experiences could you draw on to help you decide? I bet the answers to all these questions will be one word: NOTHING! In that situation there were no obstacles in the way of doing something that seemed to be fun and cool. To me that doesn't ring of "guilt", it rings of "child".

Bro, my heart goes out to you when I read your comments on how difficult this is. You're so right. You're not doomed to carry this crap around on your heart for the rest of your life, no. But it has been there for a LONG time, and getting rid of it is a complicated and difficult process. Don't try to do this on your own.

I know you're seeing a counselor, and that's great. But talk to us here as well, and let the others support you and show you that you aren't alone and that there are ways forward. I remember the first time I posted about my own issues - I was so scared! But once we give ourselves a chance and begin to get things out into the open, they gradually lose their power to harm us.

Sometimes we can admit the truth of an idea intellectually and rationally, but emotionally we still hold on to the old fears we carry from boyhood. That's what you're doing now. I know what you mean when you say you wish you had someone to give you a hug and tell you this wasn't your fault. But look at this thread! You have a crowd of guys gathering around you to say you're okay and not to blame at all - not for any of it.

Right there is a good place to start. Hang in there and keep talking about things. You're on the right track! \:\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#177496 - 08/31/07 08:28 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6420
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
17 years or 33 years since the abuse...it all seems too fresh and too recent for us when guilt and shame are involved. My shame and guilt make me want to scream.

If only I had a voice about all this....I would in fact scream. Instead, some of us just have nightmares and adulthood ramifications.

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
#177510 - 08/31/07 09:02 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: Still]
dannym Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
I think something that has struck me recently, is my self perception. I work with young children, and have several degrees in child development - 20 years of experience and 2 kids of my own. If anyone knows about kids its me... but that's THOSE kids.

I have always been me. My maturation has been slow and steady and imperceptable to me.... I'm just "Dan". So I have a huge problem in blaming myself for not knowing better.. For not saying no... for not telling... for not disclosing right after.... But that's the Adult Dan looking back, with all my knowledge and experience. I needed to step out and remember who i must haved been at age 6 when it started;.... at 8... at 11.. and at 14 when it ended. I was LITTLE. I was naive. I was curious. I was stimulated. I felt loved and special. I had attention. I had orgasms for the first time. I couldn't have known - I needed to get out of my adult head and remember what I was like... and I was YOUNG. Too young to know what the consequences of those sessions would be on my entire life.

Sad and angry? that I am... guilty ?- nope!

Dan

_________________________
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

Top
#177852 - 09/02/07 07:03 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: dannym]
SECfanMIKE Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 172
Loc: South Carolina
Hey there WILD THING!!!!!!

I know EXCATLY what you mean about it feeling good, satisfying emotionally, and being something that you actually really wanted at the time. My Dad had hated me from my early childhood until the day of my wedding (because I wasn't the athlete he had wanted me to be). My mother really never wanted to have children; my little brother and me would have literally starved or died of neglect if my Dad's loving mother hadn't cared for us until we were toddlers. I DESPERATELY craved the kind of attention, affection and tenderness that my molester (my grand-uncle) lavished on me. I despised him for raping me and forcing me to perform on him - but I was SO fulfilled by the "love" I'd never received from anyone else other than my Grammy.

=================================================================

For each of us here at MALE SURVIVOR, our stories may be very different, but -- PRAISE GOD! -- His story is always the same!!Here's a condensed view of where I'm coming from for folks I haven't met yet. In 2nd grade, my parents separated. My mother took my brother & me to live near her parents in Washington, DC. During that time, my mother's uncle molested me for about 1 1/2 years. My mother knowingly allowed this abuse to go on because she was afraid that if she confronted him she might be cut off from her family's money. My grand-uncle played on my deep needs for acceptance & affection; very emotionally intimate.

My grand-uncle used my deep need for affection to manipulate me. I vividly remember times getting out of the shower with him & laying on his white tiger rug or bed. He performed oral sex on me, sodomized me, forced me to perform oral sex on him. He may have forced my younger brother & me to engage each other sexually (a but fuzzy on that). He was never violent. Recognizing my emotional vulnerability, he was emotionally intimate: cuddled me, held me, snuggled me, lavished me with affection.

From the time my mother sent my brother and me back to live with my Dad -- because she said that I was "...turning into a queer..." -- (an 8 year old!); my Dad and brother were extremely cruel, verbally and physically abusive. From the time my younger brother Chris and I were toddlers, my Dad had always hated me because I wasn't the tall, aggressive, athletic son that my younger brother was. After returning from 1 1/2 years of being molested while in Washington, DC - my Dad hated me more than ever and had no idea what I had gone through, much less what to do with me. He AND my younger brother would sit at the dinner table and call me "...you goddam faggot...". My Dad would frequently say; "All those damn queers should be rounded up, taken to a public square and shot!"

Predictably, at this point I was unsure about who I was; and I had been suddenly taken away from the only affection I had ever known. As I began to make friends in my new neighborhood and school; without even understanding what I was looking for, I began seeking that acceptance and affection from other boys my age, and a few who were several years older. None of this searching ever lead to sexual encounters; but as a 9 year old my best friend Owen and I became extremely close -- often going to his house after school (and if his mother ad sister weren't home) we progressed to embracing one another, kissing, undressing each other (we had to get out of our Catholic school uniforms, anyway), and even exploring each other's bodies with our hands. I felt so loved and so fulfilled with Owen...and then had to face the horrors of going home to my Dad for more verbal & physical abuse. It was very confusing.

Having that kind of satisfying physical and emotional intimacy with one of my peers stopped at the end of 5th grade when my Dad remarried and moved us across town. I still never consciously understood why I was so attracted to other boys...whether it was at SCOUT camp, in school, or neighborhood peers. I used to get the tar beat out of me almost everyday, because it seemed that other guys had a much better idea than I did of why I might be staring at them in a longing way.

=================================================================
Even up to my teens, I was still so starved for affection...it's like the old Kenny Rogers song about "...looking for love in all the wrong places, looking for love in too many faces...".

I hope this helps some!


Your freind -Mike ;-)

_________________________
"...for God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him..."

"...rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep..."

"...for the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost..."

Top
#177941 - 09/03/07 01:30 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
copenbay Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 127
Hi,

I know what it feels like to be guilty about 'liking it'. Anyone who's been used by someone, especially after being tricked,can relate. Though my early abusers didn't give me too much to like, the response (whenever it does hit) is hard to ignore. Part of the problem is that the abusers were 'friends', and a bad relationship seemed better than none at the time. Please don't kick yourself over feeling things still 15 years later. It's been well over 30 years since I was first abused, and I still have feelings that I wish I didn't have (sometimes that applies to any sexual feeling at all). I feel like much more of an idiot, since after childhood abuse I was conned into more as a young adult.


Top
#177944 - 09/03/07 01:39 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: copenbay]
copenbay Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 127
Hi,

I wasn't clear the last time: the first time I was abused, I was close to age 3 (adult/adults at church,not sure how many times). Then it was two neighbor boys for eight months beginning at 4 and a half. And later, after I moved out, a woman mistreated me (and that's the kindest way to put it). Unfortunately, I had considered all those people 'friends' at some time, and have always been disgusted about having sexual response (except for masturbation). But I, too, must remind myself I had no say in what happened as a little boy, so guilt really doesn't belong to me. Yes, that's sometimes hard work, since I want to blame myself. See what I mean? You can't blame yourself for trusting someone older, or even feeling something you didn't ask to feel. Again, I'm talking to myself, too.


Top
#179939 - 09/12/07 08:34 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: copenbay]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
I think it must've been a coping mechanism. I believed fully that people who are your best friends really care about you and wouldn't do anything harmful to you. When the abuse started, I understood it wasn't right, which led to a dilemma - if I was being harmed, then these people couldn't be my friends. It was something that I call cognitive dissonance. The way I solved my cognitive dissonance was giving my abusers the benefit of the doubt - they were my friends after all; thus, I decided that what they were doing to me (the abuse) could not have been harmful after all. A simple kiddish decision.

Perhaps I can work on this new train of thought, and it might help me against this guilt.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#179981 - 09/13/07 08:24 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
not sure if this will help but my abuser convinced me that it was my fault ,that something about me made him do those things ,the way he put it was you bring the animal out in people. then he would beat me for making him do bad things ,its how they justify it to themselves i guess

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#179982 - 09/13/07 08:35 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: shadowkid]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
That could be it. The perps used to describe me and my friends with words like "beautiful", which didn't make sense to me back then because "beautiful" wasn't a word you used to describe boys - but whatever, right? So I figured it had something to do with my image.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#179983 - 09/13/07 08:36 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: shadowkid]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
mel...not sure if this falls in line with your original thought and questions...but i got to a point where i BELIEVED i liked it...my dad spent many years TELLING me i liked it because if i didn't i wouldn't have an erection. how can a kid argue with that logic...i didn't know any better...my head and heart said no...my dick said yes...i told myself he was right..i must like it.

now i know that all of that was a lie, used to keep me quite and compliant...it worked...

and on a physical level...purely sensational...some of it was pleasurable...but in any other way, it was horrific and terrifying.


Top
#179984 - 09/13/07 08:43 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: buzz_key]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
wow mell ,yes beautifull hot ,amazing all words he used, to describe me and yeah buzz they always pointed out that well you sure did respond ,body betrayl sucks but they counted on that ,adults know a kids body will respond even if he dont like it

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#179986 - 09/13/07 08:47 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: shadowkid]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Well that's true, seems they never waste a moment to let you know how much you must be liking it. "Looks like someone is having fun", and etc.



Edited by melliferal (09/13/07 08:48 AM)
_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#179993 - 09/13/07 09:19 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
pain4ever Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Mell,

Ya i feel ya there..."see you little fag boy...you like it". I wanted to cut off my penis because it got hard during the abuse.

Wish they just would have been quiet during it!!

Brian

_________________________
Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

Top
#180023 - 09/13/07 11:39 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: buzz_key]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Melliferal,

Originally Posted By: melliferal
I believed fully that people who are your best friends really care about you and wouldn't do anything harmful to you. When the abuse started, I understood it wasn't right, which led to a dilemma - if I was being harmed, then these people couldn't be my friends. It was something that I call cognitive dissonance. The way I solved my cognitive dissonance was giving my abusers the benefit of the doubt - they were my friends after all; thus, I decided that what they were doing to me (the abuse) could not have been harmful after all. A simple kiddish decision.[/melliferal]

[quote=buzz_key]my dad spent many years TELLING me i liked it because if i didn't i wouldn't have an erection. how can a kid argue with that logic...i didn't know any better...my head and heart said no...my dick said yes...i told myself he was right..i must like it.


Man, I could go on and on with examples from my own childhood. Do the "good feelings" mean what we are doing is okay?...that's what I asked him. And guess what the answer was?

And yep, I looked at him and saw 1) an adult, 2) a friend of my Dad, 3) a guy I had seen around for years helping with the cubs and scouts, 4) a poobah in our church, ushering people to their places, taking collection, etc. So far as I was concerned the world was safe and so was he. And anyway, I supposed to listen to adults when I go to their home, right? Larry, be a good boy and do whatever Mr and Mrs **** say. Larry, remember your pleases and thank yous and do what you're told.

What do we see so clearly in all this: the fact that kids are just not emotionally, socially, or intellectually equipped to respond to the challenges that come up when they are being abused. Remember the "deer in the headlights" feeling? Remember wanting it to be okay so the fear and confusion would stop?

Someone here last year had a signature line that says it all: A child can comply, but he can't consent.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#180042 - 09/13/07 01:04 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: roadrunner]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
I fucking hate all of the pricks who did this

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

Top
#180073 - 09/13/07 02:50 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
melliferal: You were a child and trusting like all children do. They used their power as adults to get what they wanted. And in the process it helped keep you quiet and that was their prime motivation. Your silence!! Sure it felt good. We are hotwired all that way. It is what keeps the human race going. We are the most sexual animal on the planet. And at 10 years of age it was a totally new experience and they were paying a lot of attention to you and you trusted them completely.

I was raped at 16 by three guys over a 9 month period and I came to like it too. 3-4 times a week every week. What the shit. They were paying attention to me. Every sexual perversion you can think of. And each and every time I got erections and ejaculated. Shit they were only giving me what I wanted and I lapped it up.

You were groomed by them and that is a fact. Had they ,instead been wonderful guys who taught you right from wrong, were there for you for your successes and to comfort you with your failures it would have been a far different outcome. They would have been people you would still look up to. Well they were not like that. And you did not have a chance with them, pure and simple.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#180122 - 09/13/07 06:45 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: buzz_key]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Originally Posted By: buzz_key
mel...not sure if this falls in line with your original thought and questions...but i got to a point where i BELIEVED i liked it...


I did like it.

But the fact that I did like it only served to mess up my life more.

Bryan

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#180126 - 09/13/07 07:04 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: BJK]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: BJK
I did like it.

But the fact that I did like it only served to mess up my life more.

Bryan


I agree.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#180178 - 09/13/07 11:58 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
M3 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Hey,

I was hoping to see you online tonight. Missed the geology puns.

I know what you are saying about feeling guilty, or blaming yourself, because you liked it. It felt good.

The truth is, at 10 years old, A CHILD CANNOT MAKE THAT DECISION!! They are emotionally and mentally incapable of handing that type of decision as an adult would. Their brains haven't developed yet.

I also know I'm better at giving advice than taking it, even my own! Knowing this, I hope will make it easier for you to start to forgive yourself. But that is a long journey I think we are both on.

Michael


Top
#180259 - 09/14/07 10:11 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
kellygtx Offline
Guest

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
Bryan
Originally Posted By: melliferal
Originally Posted By: BJK
I did like it.

But the fact that I did like it only served to mess up my life more.

Bryan


I agree.


I have read this thread so many times - with much reflection. I too did enjoy it. I was 10 and he was 14 when it first happened. I liked being raped - can you believe that - the first few times hurt like hell - but after that it felt good. And to be honest I was mad (or hurt?) when he shared me with his friend (was I jealouse?) and when he moved into his own room and it stopped - just like that.

I DID LIKE IT (JUST ADMITTING THAT IS PAINFUL)- and IT DID SCREW UP MY LIFE.

But the thought of reliving that now does not fill me with anticipation - it makes me want to vomit!



Edited by kellygtx (09/18/07 01:44 PM)
_________________________
I bid you Peace.

Kelly

The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

Top
#181328 - 09/20/07 02:09 AM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: kellygtx]
copenbay Offline
Guest

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 127
Hi Mell,

I completely agree with your explanation of connection between 'liking it' and convincing yourself that the abusers must have been friends. It's also much harder to blame the abusers if I 'liked it', even at all, which of course is evidenced by having some kind of response (a 'hard on').
Most of the abuse I can't say I really liked, but I had to tell myself I must have if I responded 'favorably', or if someone tried to convince me it was good and I simply went along, though I was sure something was wrong. So I had to choose to turn abusers into friends, since I was assigned blame and accepted it.
The confusion (or 'cognitive dissonance') was horrible, since I wanted to think of everyone as my friend, and that I must have really 'liked it', even if I didn't. I had the additional problem of wondering if my parents considered people who abused me to be friends, and if I was wrong to question their judgment. Sometimes I was pretty sure they didn't, but other times, I simply didn't know. Too young to do anything except go along.

Ed


Top
#181582 - 09/21/07 12:47 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Melliferal,

I wanted to come back to something you said earlier:

Originally Posted By: melliferal
The perps used to describe me and my friends with words like "beautiful", which didn't make sense to me back then because "beautiful" wasn't a word you used to describe boys - but whatever, right? So I figured it had something to do with my image.


Even more than that, my friend, you were being made to feel special, wanted, loved, appreciated, important - all the things that a boy wants the most. The fact that the specific word they used seemed odd to you was totally beside the point.

This is part of the utter emotional cruelty of abuse: that an adult will use a child's own innocence as a tool to betray him.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#181599 - 09/21/07 01:38 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
Barney Offline


Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Utah/Northern Arizon
Hi Melliferal,

No adult has the right to molest a child. None. Your feelings are what you feel and you have every right to feel like you do. Please consider you as a child, needing some kind of attention and affection as the others have said. That is normal, and apparently to enjoy the physical nature is normal too. What is not normal is what was done to you and the rest of us. I think it is just part of the shit we all have to endure until we can get the help we need to sort out what was ours and what was theirs.

Please don't beat yourself up, just be patient, know that we care about you and your going to get where you need to be.

The best.

B


Top
#181761 - 09/22/07 06:15 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: Barney]
melliferal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
That's it. That's IT!

The part that I liked - that wasn't the abuse. I mean, in retrospect I would rather not have liked it - and I know that it was an abusive design that's the reason we did any of that in the first place...but what I actually DID with the other kids was not the abuse part! It was the leaving the tapes in the VCR that was the abuse part...and video camera. THAT was the abuse - I was more indifferent to that stuff. Maybe I didn't protest, but I can't say to myself I particularly liked that part of it.

Let's face it - I know that kids might explore now and then, but what I did with them was I think way more than most kids would just do. Still and all, they were kids my age; it was safe. It doesn't matter whether I liked that or not, because that wasn't the "abuse".

I was just killing time today, playing my flight simulator. And all the sudden, the thought occured to me. I wasn't thinking about abuse at all, and it just sort of popped up all of a sudden. Normally I would hate that intrusiveness - but this time it was such a relief, what I thought! It doesn't matter - I could've liked the living hell out of what I was doing; it DOESN'T MATTER. It just doesn't.

Guilt, stay away this time! There's no way I can shame my way around this breakthrough.

Today is a damn good day.

_________________________
Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

Top
#181788 - 09/22/07 08:34 PM Re: Guilt over "liking it" [Re: melliferal]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6420
Loc: 2.5 NATO Nations
Well said....well framed Mel!!!

_________________________
This nation has lost its mind!

The Aftermath Video

The Water Buffalo Song

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.