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#175110 - 08/22/07 09:08 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
buzz_key Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 635
Loc: USA
why do people always want to blame God for the abuse? do you also blame Him for ANYTHING good that has happened to you? or should i say, do you give Him the credit for the good?

If you believe in God and understand WHAT He is, then you would also believe that He CANNOT DO WRONG or BAD, that is contrary to the nature of God - He ONLY does good.

Evil (our abuse) is part of THIS world, not God's. It is here because evil was let loose to rule this planet with Adam and Eve. We are here to live our lives...and yes...so freakin' sadly...we become the victims of that evil.

God didn't do it! But He is there if we truly desire to have a relationship with Him. Think about this...if God protected us from all evil, any evil...He would be enticing us to desire a relationship with Him...

He HAS to let us live in this world and experience it the way it is and IN SPITE of everything here, desire a relationship with HIM...because as one of my feloow MS'ers said the other day - love cannot be coerced, cajoled, forced, it has to be FREELY given to mean anything....so it is with us and God.

please don't be offended or upset, i am not trying to tell anyone they are wrong...i just want to throw my opinion out there for your consideration...just consider it. because, again, the decision about what you believe and want has to come from each of you and not from me or anyone else.


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#175118 - 08/22/07 09:27 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
John Oarc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 633
Loc: Louisiana
Now I realy believe that in life there are no coincidences. I just posted about this a day or two ago.

Trust, control, fear of letting go, just to name a few made it hard for me to surrender and I am and never will be all the way there, i.e. perfect.

I built myself a control kigdom after the CSA. I worked on my looks, my brains, my social standing and so on because I believed from the time of the CSA that I would nor could ever amount to anything. The world taught me that being someone of importance was proven by outward worth, so in order to prove my worth I chased it for years. The problem is I never, ever felt satisfied as I gained these things. Years of relying on my looks and things, I forgot to mention sex, porn and alcohol, is not an easy thing to just let go of unless, as in my case, something happens to brings you to your knees. I asked for this thing by praying what ever it takes, God and that is when my life truly began to change.

Ten plus years later I can safely say that I had no clue that I never fully let go and let God until two days ago. I could not accept help from anyone including God because I think I felt it would show weakness, dependency, and most importantly, that I was not in control. After my parents divorce and the CSA my nine year old brain realized that it needed to protect me and in order to do that no mistakes could be made, years in advance needed to be thought out meticulously. This pre planning never worked but in a since it did, at least I felt as if I were in control. Miserably comfortable in my box is the way I would describe it.

Long story short, the devil, satan whatever you want to call him played a great hand when he fooled me into believing that I was smarter than him. He let me believe that I had beaten him without God. My intellect, nothing more, had gotten me to this point in my life "control issues again" and that I need not trust anyone but myself as history has proven in my life.

The truth is I have never been in control and I just let him have the wheel two days ago. I must say I'm not all the way okay with that just yet but I'm working on it day by day, "As I reach out with one hand wanting to take it back." The great part is that he cared enough about me to open my heart. He let me see him without my eyes or my intellect, he let me see him as a child would see him.

Psalm 131

1 Lord, my heart is not proud;
I don't look down on others.
I don't do great things,
and I can't do miracles.

2 But I am calm and quiet,
like a baby with its mother.
I am at peace, like a baby with its mother.

3 People of Israel, put your hope in the Lord
now and forever.

God Bless,



Edited by John Oarc (08/22/07 09:35 PM)
_________________________
Whatever It Takes, God


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#175149 - 08/23/07 12:55 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: John Oarc]
Brokenhearted Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/06
Posts: 644
Loc: TX
First, to John Oarc, when you said, "He let me see him without my eyes or my intellect, he let me see him as a child would see him," it brought up a verse I remember:

'And Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me. But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.' -- Matthew 18:2-6 Little children (innocent, before any abuse) don't question God so much, they believe and their innate trusting nature is intact. Faith is like that; we can't see God but we believe. And of course it helps to read what He says to us in the Bible.

And, Robbie, thank you for sharing your story. When you say, "I also FIRMLY believed that I, Rob Brown, could never have his soul saved by virtue of what I had been involved in. So none of this “Christian stuff” applied to me," I truly believe my H has had and/or still has these sorts of feelings, feeling unforgiveable for anything he has ever done, maybe even just the cheating in our marriage, but nevertheless, feeling totally unworthy of God's salvation. Regarding his cheating, that is his own sin but still... "Come now and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." Isaiah 1:18. And what's this about feeling guilty for the sins the abusers caused you to commit? That's their guilt, not yours. Maybe remind yourselves that you're accepting blame by feeling guilty for those sins that the abusers caused you to do.


I remember being taught in church that salvation is not something we earn = we can never earn it = rather it is a gift that we merely are to accept. I'm so glad that guy chased you all over the place and that you listened to him for as long as it took. Incredible story.

MarkK, ditto for you where you said, "I saw my brother-in-law come to Christ after 25 years of saying he'd "never be good enough for God". And thank you for reminding me of the power of prayer and stay at it. Your post inspires me.

Larry, your post saddens me b/c you are so helpful to others here and lift others up so often and so well, and your insights and intellect are very keen. I guess that is where again I am convinced of what the Bible tells us, that none of that is necessary to accept His salvation, only faith is, and it's hard when we can't "see" faith or even reason it out. I know you were abused by a "church man" but in reality he did not represent the church, he used it as a front for his deceitful and horrible crimes. So he was not a church man, he was an evil man IN a church, but the church (i.e. God) certainly would never endorse his ways. Please try to separate the two out - he and the church were never one and the same, even though they were associated w/ each other as a front, but that is all it was, a FRONT. A front that he used to get to innocent boys like you, he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

And I know God loves us all, so your comment "I believe in God and I wish I were closer to him; I just don't think the feeling is mutual." is FALSE. That is just your own abuser talking in your head, your own false feeling of unworthiness. "Luk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows (referring to how God clothes and shelters and feeds and cares for the sparrow so how much more he cares for US)," and, Isaiah 49:15-16 "Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have engraved thee upon the palms of My hands...." God says, "Would a mother ever forget her nursing baby? Not likely. But even if she did, I would never forget you, for you are My children, and your names are in My hands."

Seven Arrows and Shadowkid, I hope that one day you will read the Bible and decide for yourselves after doing so whether God loved/loves you or not. Without reading His correspondence to you, it is hard to do little more than hope and guess and doubt.

I am going to continue praying for my H, and I read somewhere in the Bible you have to pray very specifically. So rather than praying a general prayer that he "get saved so he will have eternal life," I will pray that God will pave the way through happenings in his life that he will be exposed to the Bible and other Christians and that Satan will stop trying to prevent my H from seeing God, etc., but a very specific kind of prayer.

Remember that Satan is constantly working hard to create doubt and guilt and anger and all that will prevent us from accepting Christ. His main tool is deceit. He never sleeps. He rejoices when he succeeds at blinding us to God's love.

An appropriate prayer regarding this might be, "Lord, I now renounce Satan and all his works. I hate his demons. I count them my enemies in the name of Jesus. I loose myself from every dark spirit, from every evil influence, from every satanic bondage, from any spirit in me that is not the Spirit of God. I command all such spirits to leave me now in the name of Jesus.

I call upon You, Lord Jesus, to set me free from every demonic power that has affected me. In the name of Jesus Christ, Risen Saviour, I command every demonic power that has lived within me or oppressed me to leave me now in the name of Jesus Christ. I declare that I am a child of the Living God and that Satan has no right to inhabit any part of me or to oppress me. I thank You, Lord Jesus, and I give You the glory. Amen."

Thanks, guys.














Edited by Brokenhearted (08/23/07 12:59 AM)
_________________________
Brokenhearted

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Luke 17:2

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#175150 - 08/23/07 01:59 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
guys it sounds great but where is the part that says god protects the little children ?i know its in that book somewhere.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#175205 - 08/23/07 09:43 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Brokenhearted]
pietie Offline
Guest

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 326
Loc: South Africa
We definately all have trust issues in here. My first step towards giving everything to the Lord was not to blame Him for what happened anymore.

I personally think that all of the people has the Trust issue in their lives. I have some good christian friends who never struggled with abuse and yet they struggle to trust God for things in their lives.

What I can say is that one of the best decisions I ever made was to trust God with my life. He say in the Word we will have life and life in abundance and although I am not there yet I am moving towards it. Is it an easy road? No definatley not especially still struggling with the abuse issues. Is it worth while? I think so. The saying goes "let go and let God", but it is never easy to do.

Do not ever understimate the power of prayer as well as the power of positive confession. Speak life over him and trust God for his soul.

Best of luck.

_________________________
Not Perfect, just forgiven

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#175277 - 08/23/07 12:18 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: pietie]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Thanks for the comments and support. I'd just like to say that I don't blame God for what happened to me - not at all. I blame the abuser entirely and exclusively. Period. I'm pretty sure of all this. It feels right and it works for me.

I don't see the abuser as a representative of the church either, although that's how he presented himself to me back then. He was a monster using the church as a cover so he could find young boys to feast on.

And I know there have been many wonderful people in my life who have done so many things to help me, who have gone the "extra mile" for me. I really appreciate them and in my heart I believe they were sent to me by God.

So in light of all that I feel especially uncomfortable and confused when I look at my relationship with God and feel so "cut off". I know it's an issue from childhood abuse, but I don't know what to do about it. I hear suggestions and I think, fine, but those suggestions don't help me - they tell me a lot of "what" but without the "how".

I do know that one element crushing me is shame. I can protect myself from other people by denying them access to my information, if I feel I need to do that. I can even hold back from close friends, telling them, "Well, if I told you it would just be more grief and pain." But God already knows, and from what I hear he's not into forgetting things.

It's not that I'm ashamed that these things happened to me - I know none of them is my fault. But the abuser was into humiliation to the max, and I was never ever safe in church or on any church-related activity, whether Scouts, church youth choir, confirmation classes, whatever. I don't feel I'm responsible, but it's just so shameful that God knows about all those things.

Or at least that's where I am right now. I feel confident I will get past this and I don't mind talking about it, but, as usual, when you're still in it up to the eyes it sucks pretty bad.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#175316 - 08/23/07 02:28 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
usmc97 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 437
Loc: Colorado
I still have a very hard time with my faith and trusting God. I seem to have a more limited understanding of Him and His sacrifice for me. I feel as though I don't know grace, being protected and very little of love. After all that was done to me and then it being topped off by being molested by a priest really screws up the relationship I want with Him. I don't think I'll truly trust Him until I meet Him and I believe He understands the hurt and confusion that has been put upon me. I had a hard road to learn to trust my friends and they weren't even involved back then. It got to a conversation with one of my friends who told me how much God hated how I was getting hurt but as with when Christ was on the cross, He did not stop the will of men... my friend told me that it had to of hurt God to know what was happening to one of his children, maybe so much that He had to turn away as with Christ. It's really my only way I can relate to Jesus. I do not get having my sins forgiven because of not knowing what I did wrong to have this life. The fall of man is just an excuse to me. I do not get His suffering because it wasn't what I had to endure, just being honest here. I believe God will know your husband wether or not he is "saved" here on earth. If you read into where He talks about leaving the 99 to find the one lost sheep(Matt 18:10-14), He went out to get him and take him home. I don't believe that He would hold the torment of what has happened to us against us, I can say for myself that this life is hell and it's a lonely burden. He is the way but some of us have been so crippled that He will pick us up and carry us home. I was saved in 2001 but there is always going to be confusion for me, I trust that God has shown me His heart for the hurt... His heart for me, His heart for us. It's not about trying to say this life has to be fair, but God is just. Well that's what I have to say.

_________________________
Semper Fi

The statistics? 1 in 4, 1 in 6?
...then there's me the imaginary number

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#175380 - 08/23/07 08:35 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: shadowkid]
MarkK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
guys it sounds great but where is the part that says god protects the little children ?i know its in that book somewhere.

I know of no place in the Bible where it says God protects little children, if by that we mean God will not let any harm ever befall a child.


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#175382 - 08/23/07 08:40 PM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: MarkK]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 6365
Loc: 2 NATO Nations
Evil happens

_________________________
Jesus Loves The Hell Outta Me!

Still's Globs

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#175563 - 08/24/07 10:25 AM Re: Question for Christian Survivors [Re: Still]
bp83 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/29/06
Posts: 111
Loc: Arkansas
Larry, boy can I relate. I love God, and have had many wonderful experiences in church, and out. I believe in speaking in tongues...and I have done it many times before (now you all think I'm crazy!) It is a wonderful experience...but I still feel ostracized from God. I have an almost religious phobia...I feel I simply cannot trust God with so much confusion in my mind and in the world. But, I cannot deny his presence in my life, or His love, although I'm confused to the point of insanity of where to go to feel differently about Him. It just feels like I can't open up and let Him in...I can't be vulnerable to the point of full submission. I have OCD too, so, that doesn't help with confusion!

_________________________
-
Scott

"Life is for living, we all know, and I don't want to live it alone..."-Chris Martin

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