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#175704 - 08/25/07 11:17 AM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: shadowkid]
gay30something Offline
New Here

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 26
Loc: New England, USA
I think what's happening here, with all due respect, is that as with all of us, Shadowkid has experienced horrific abuse. Therefore, he wants all abusers locked up at all costs.

But in my opinion, the reality is that wouldn't even happen in a police-state. And a police-state is something we as Americans and others in other democracies, would want to avoid.

Perverted Justice has lost many cases, because right in their shows, there are many times when they tell us that the prosectors didn't bring charges against some of the suspects.

This is because of the tactics used, entrapment, etc violating the constitution. These are dangerous practices that sometimes pull in innocent people in misunderstandings, framings, etc.

I am not saying that the subject on Catch a Predator are innocent. I think most of them at the very least, need some serious mental health treatment. Some of them deserve their sentences. But others, get off free, because the framework of the whole thing is wrong. It's based on showbiz, not law.

They never even tell the audience what the law is in the area they are doing the sting.

It's not educational, it is showbiz and fear mongering.

Btw, some communities don't want this show in their towns, because they are afraid it acts as a magnet and brings this stuff to their town.

So, I sympathize with Shadowkid on some level - but I certainly don't think entrapment or violating the constitution is the answer.

That's not protecting predators, it is using sound judgement and throwing resources after catching the bad guys.

It is very questionable for a police force to do what is done on catch a predator, because it wastes resources, hypersensationalizes things, casts too wide a net, while letting the criminals who are slick get away, AND it reveals law enforcement techniques.

In my opinion.

As for police forces who go online and send messages to people who are not looking for anything bad -- that is wrong. It victimizes people who may have been abused or may have mental health issues.

Yes, it is true, law abiding citizens are not usually going to fall for these things...... but they are victimized when they go looking to meet another consentual adult online, and they get scarey messages from undercovers instead.

I just think there are better, more thorough ways of going after the rapists. I really do.

And I think the best way would be for law enforcement to secure the secret files of the catholic church.
That would catch thousands of rapists.

_________________________
gay30something

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#175714 - 08/25/07 11:50 AM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: gay30something]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
all abusers should be locked up .period

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#175718 - 08/25/07 12:03 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag *DELETED* [Re: gay30something]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Post deleted by BJK

_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

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#175722 - 08/25/07 12:30 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: BJK]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
what bugs me about this and yeah it is kinda like a dictator,is im being labled as somehow not as good as others because i dont think like they do. what about my rights? is it unreasonable to consider that i have damn good reasons for how i feel? am i a bad person cause i wont forgive and forget? is it abnormal to react to horrific abuse with a desire to even the score? its this attitude that lets abuse remain hidden .if i was 11 and came to you and said hes hurting me would i be told to remember that he has rights to? treatment?how do you treat a pedophile? what magic pill makes them stop? i've said it before perp gets busted ,perp gets therapy ,perp gets 3 meals a day ,perp gets a free place to live ,perp gets meds for depression ,while the victim dies in a back ally from an overdose cause he cant live with what was done to him,where is the justice in this system? victim cant get free therapy ,cant get a job cause he cant function ,ends up on the street cause the abuse prevents him from living a normal life. shadowkid has experienced horrific abuse and he wants all abusers locked up at all costs ,and your point is? that im a bad person?seems like the only god damn thing about me that is normal is my desire for revenge,who wouldnt want to make them pay? i would worry more if i didnt care or if i felt sympathy for the sick pigs that abuse,als im sure some of you have kids ,who will be the first one to allow their kid to go hang out with one of the innocent guys that got caught up in the trap that pj sets , maybe to prove your point you should hire one of those guys to baby sit YOUR CHILDREN!

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#175737 - 08/25/07 01:16 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: shadowkid]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
Originally Posted By: shadowkid
what bugs me about this and yeah it is kinda like a dictator,is im being labled as somehow not as good as others because i dont think like they do.


I do not think you are not as good as others. I would hope I the same would be thought of me, but judging by what I have read, that is not the case. It does not really matter though. We simply have different moral standards. The reason I do not compromise on this is because I knew a boy who was a convicted sex offender. He confessed, served his time, went into treatment and was placed in the system. Late last year it was determined he had not actually committed any crime. Instead of accepting this, he killed himself. As far as anyone who agrees with Perverted Justice is concerned all that matters is that he confessed. They do not care how the police got him to do it.

That is the major difference in our thinking. I do not just care that it was gotten, but how it was gotten. Certainly that may be a result of my experiences, but those experience are quite irrelevant in this matter. All I am suggesting is that the methods many seem to enjoy can lead to serious mistakes. If those mistakes are acceptable to you, fine. I hope you never raise the ire of those who run such groups.

_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#175738 - 08/25/07 01:25 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: jacobtk]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
no your wrong i dont think that at all in fact i think its cool that we can talk about this without screamming at each other . will you let one of these guys sit with your kids? moral standards ?there agian it seems my standards are being seen as deficient.i have moral standards ,people dont fuck children ,people dont lock kids in a closet ,feed them dog food ,mentaly and physicaly abuse them ,why cany you apply your morality to the perp?why pick on the victim? what about the unwritten laws that say you do not do this shit to a child? morals?heh we are discussing the most imoral people ever! and what did perveted justice have to do with what happened to your friend? nothing, its the fucked up system that everybody says works so well! i dont want to keep the system in place that caused your friend to die ,you do

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#175749 - 08/25/07 02:16 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: shadowkid]
jacobtk Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 527
I did not mention his suicide to garner sympathy, only to indicate that outcome that you and others desire does occur. Are you not satisfied? Your standards are not deficient, only different. I agree that we are discussing the most immoral people: those who deceive. While I would not allow the guys on the show to watch my godson, I would not allow anyone from Perverted Justice to either. I am not inclined to allow strangers to watch him, but certainly not those with a penchant for deception. You asked what the group has to do with the boy I knew. I do apologize for being blunt, what do the guys on the show have to do with your abuse? They did not harm you and they are not even accused or suspected of doing anything like what was done to you. If you are going to say that they think like your perp or will eventually act on those thoughts, that is my reason for distrusting Perverted Justice as well.



Edited by jacobtk (08/25/07 02:17 PM)
_________________________
Every day I die again, and again Iím reborn/Every day I have to find the courage/To walk out into the street/With arms out/Got a love you canít defeat/Neither down nor out/Thereís nothing you have that I need/I can breathe/Breathe now - U2

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#175760 - 08/25/07 03:01 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag *DELETED* [Re: shadowkid]
BJK Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1526
Post deleted by BJK



Edited by BJK (08/25/07 03:02 PM)
_________________________
Revenge is nothing more than another way of perpetuating abuse.

What the world needs now
Is some new words of wisdom
Like la la la la la la la la la.
-David Lowery

Having a friend who will keep a secret for you is worthless compared to a friend who won't keep a secret from you.

Top
#175775 - 08/25/07 04:17 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: BJK]
Lazarus Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
I've been watching this thread closely, and all of you make very good points and very strong arguments. I haven't spoken up in awhile because I was waiting to be convinced, one way or another. There is no perfect answer that I can see, and Adam and Jacob both make sense to me.

Bryan, I understand your feelings and also agree with everything you said, EXCEPT:
Originally Posted By: BJK

My argument is, simply put, that the majority of the people featured on PV are simply not perps.


They ARE perps, Bryan, because the showed up at (what they thought was) a kid's house for the purpose of having sex with (what they thought was) a kid. It was their intention that matters, and the fact that they were willing to act on that intent. I have no doubt that if they had found what they were expecting to find, they would have abused those children. That makes them guilty as hell, in my book.

I don't want to set aside anyone's constituational rights, but these perverts were not adults looking for other adults to have sex with, they were going to have sex with a minor. Some would say that they were pressured, cajoled and persuaded by the alledged 'minor', but I say 'who cares?' Kids these days really do that kind of stuff. They know the power the have over certain people, and they aren't shy about using that power. So it's a matter of protecting the kids from themselves, and as adults that is what we are supposed, make that OBLIGATED to do.

I do not feel sorry for these perps. I don't feel sorry that they are humiliated, prosecuted to the full extent of the law and hopefully spend significant time behind bars. We all know what happens to child molesters in jail... I think it serves them right, and I certainly hope it teaches them a lesson. Maybe it will make other perps and potential perps think twice before they do this kind of crap.

While it's true that PJ only targets a small percentage of child abusers (the ones that the kids don't know) and ignores the much bigger problem (of family or friendly abuse), I think it still serves a purpose. I wish we could find a way to put a sting out on family abusers too.

Would I let a member of PJ staff watch my kids? No, I don't think so. I think they are warped and twisted in their own minds as well, just in different ways than the perverts they are targeting. But they serve a purpose that I happen to believe is very important. They can be like viscious guard dogs, who may not be very likeable, but they serve a valuable purpose; the lesser of two evils. I'd rather have PJ doing what they are doing rather than let just one child be raped.

IMHO.

Lazarus

_________________________
"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

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#175779 - 08/25/07 04:36 PM Re: To Catch a Predator - Rolling Stone Mag [Re: BJK]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
bj im not talking about you dude! not in any way .to me you seem to be about as honest as it gets ,and i suppose i would let you watch my kids . if i was a member of perverted justice would you let me watch yours? just like with the guys that get dragged in ,the people at pj are not hell bent on busting any and everybody! some or most of them are either survivors or family of survivors,should we not give them the samne consideration? do we judge all of them as fanatical nuts who dont care about kids only about their 15 minutes of fame? its people trying to make a difference and no one else is doing anything! do you think maybe the material on why people offend is lacking cause tthere is no reasonable explaination? also where do you get the information?from people who have spent their entire lives hiding their true feelings? luring perps in is deception? maybe so ,but it pales in comparrison to luring innocent kids into something that will destroy them , i suppose this is where we get to the , abuse excuse , i offended because i was abused myself. the ultimate deception ,using what they did as an excuse! i dont believe that many abusers were abused ,its an insult to the victim to even accept that excuse. to me an adult sending nude pics to someone he is convinced is a child is a perp ,asking that child to have sex is a perp , arranging a meeting with that child is a perp ,are we missing the fact that they do believe its a child ,weather or not it really is is irrelevent.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
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